http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/69761

Well done Ofcom for showing a bit of common sense. (Not sure why the original thread was closed really - I would have posted there).

Yay for Brundle. Now we just need to know why he never goes to Hungary.

It's a bit of a stretch to say pikey isn't used (in this instance) to describe travelers when you're using it to describe people (in this instance) doing work usually attributed to them. Ie temporary building and roadworks and etc. I think the context of the remark erases their defense.

Brundle is an idiot for saying it, but I don't think he should be punished by any regulators. I don't know what weight an OFCOM censure even carries. It's the multi-million fines the broadcasters get that actually affects them.

well it says he didn't understand the fuller meaning of the word.

much like a blonde might say aryan...

But uttered by a German, who would perhaps understand the wider definitive net Aryan casts. Though she should also know it's street useage.

I had an interesting conversastion similar to this with some other Americans and The Times a week or so ago about the useage of redneck in their publications.

Common sense prevails on ITV, who apologised ...

Which isn't the same as saying 'there are some thieving scumbags laying tarmac' is it?

i don't think it was those laying tarmac that were insulted, but pikeys at home being told that they lay tarmac - which they do.
if those laying the tarmac are travellers - and i imagine they do travel and aren't always based in montreal - then he was really using the word correctly. hopefully i've misunderstood though.

The complaint went to the wrong people.

ofcom can do nothing.

Complaints should have gone to a racial equality board, then we'd have seen how robust Martin's defence was. He's a nice guy but that comment was ill-judged.

thing is, they probably were a bunch of pikeys

We were sitting at the hairpin watching them work. Their work didn't reek of professionalism...

One of them broke his broom, so he had to go on his knees to sweep. After they had done the cement (or whatever it was they used to fill the holes) they strated painting it black. Charlie Whiting literally had to pull them away from doing that, I guess because he didn't want the cars to drive on still wet paint.

It seemed like the keystone cops had been hired to provide light entertainment before the race.

That's the problem in the UK under PC rule, we're not nowadays even allowed to call a spade a spade..................

We're not allowed to call them Gypsies or Romanies any more, so, in some areas they are referred to as Pikeys - We're supposed to call them Travellers"; although so few of them travel nowadays, it is a bit of a misnomer. A rose by any other name and all that. It is their apparent behaviour that stigmatises them; not their name; that is merely a label.

Within the last week we in the UK have been told that, despite years of being lectured about obesity, we cannot refer to grossly overweight people as being obese; I'm not sure yet what we are supposed to call them, circumferentially challenged or some such euphemism I suppose. This obsession with trying to find phrases with which to otherwise say what is already covered by perfectly good words actually gets in the way of social cohesion. it turns a simple description into a subject for piss-taking - I am overweight, I am not "Otherwise waisted", "Adiposally Challenged", "Non-musclely Unbalanced" nor any other psuedo-sociological invented phrase; to put it bluntly, I am a touch fat, and to use any other "form-of-words" to illustrate the fact doesn't make me any slimmer...............................

Pikey is a pejorative. Whether obese ends up as one is a seperate discussion.

I wonder what the pikeys call the rest of the population?

i quite like the word plump or portly...

or Alexander McCall Smith's "traditionally built"

Podge is good too.

diet discussions in PC not RC please.

That's probably the Daily Mail spin on it. In fact 'obese' is still the correct term, it's simply not the word chosen for these government letters, it's about trying to encourage parents to improve their children's diet without seeking to label or stigmatise. Whether you agree with that approach or not is another matter, but it's not true to suggest 'obese' is now considered taboo. But if we're looking for alternatives I'd prefer 'hefty'.

Some travellers stole some metal from my work place the other day, police women comes in and said "i hear you have had trouble with some local pikeys?" it seemed perfectly normal to me

Which in any sensible universe would have thrown them out immediately, because pikeys are not a race.
They are a group of like minded people from many countries, bound together only in their behaviour patterns.

However, we do not live in a sensible universe.

Oh my gosh! He said a bad word!

Political correctness will be the death of us all. At least it looks as if common sense prevailed. I find it ridiculous that they even had to apologize.

There's a gap between politically correct and professional. If Martin wants to call someone a pikey in the pub, I don't have a problem with it so much. But it's not something you should be saying on a live terrestrial broadcast.

In the part of the UK I am from a certain word is frequently used to describe owners of corner-shops. It's not used as a derogatory term though. It's used by ignorant people who don't know any better.

Example of use: "I'm just going to the **** shop to buy some milk"

Again, another word is used in a non-derogatory way to describe certain take-away outlets that offer Chinese food for sale. Again it's used by ignorant people who don't know any better.

Example of use: "I'm just going to the ********'s to buy a ******".

Some people may know what the above *'s refer to. Others may not. It doesn't take much imagination to know that they take the place of clearly offensive, yet frequently used terms.

Just because people use these terms without realising they shouldn't doesn't make it okay to do so.

Mark my words, if Martin had said either of the words I replaced with *'s above, he'd be out of a job now.

Dont get me wrong though. I'm not lambasting him, and I'm sure he made a genuine mistake without having thought his words through before he said them. Live TV and all that.

His defence was however utter nonsense. In no way is the word "pikey" used widely in a non derogatory way. That is utter utter nonsense.

As explained above, I hear two key words a lot that are genuinely meant in a non-harmful way, however I only ever hear the word "pikey" said with utter venom.



As a footnote, I won't be replacing the *'s with their real equivalents. Not necessary for the discussion.

Perfect!

There are lots of words used everyday on the streets, in offices, factories, building sites, bulletin boards and pubs which (depending on context) go unnoticed, cause offence or cause amusement. Common usage doesn't automatically mean that that vocabulary becomes acceptable for broadcasting as part of a sports commentary.

Mugs. punters, the bank.......................

When one has had the contents of ones diesel tanked stolen 4 times, followed by the complete removal of the tank and its contents, one is entitled not to feel too well disposed towards them, at which point it ceases to be pejorative...................... (And yes, the police were of the opinion that the evil deeds were carried out by well wheeled persons of no fixed abode with infinitely flexible names, birth-dates and places of origin; in a word, Pikeys)

Underlining the point that it's not a catch all demographic phrase.

Ross,

You seem to be very selective in your application of righteous indignation, when I posted a reply to the following

Originally posted by milliepuppy
... or his pretence to be straight by getting married have helped him at all ...

As follows:

I thought this forum was supposed to have moderators - If they don't start doing their job, they may find themselves being moderated by some very expensive American lawyers.........................

You, Ross, posted this:

Don't be such a girl.

Perhaps you are just selectively supportive of minorities.................................

Your reading comprehension is as poor as your attempts at trolling.

As I've said in this thread and the original, Martin saying it isn't that big a deal on it's own. But said in a live broadcast over a primary network, it's unadviseable. If I was his producer I'd have had a quiet word with him later.

So thats righteous indignation disproven.

The Wheldon gay jokes aren't used in an insulting sense. It's not "haha, what a fag" but mocking that he is very camp.

If you were going to criticise me you'd have been better trying to run with me using 'dont be a girl' as an insult rather than the gay aspect which wasn't a positive or negative description of Wheldon.

If milliepuppy, myself, and you were all anchoring the IRL coverage and had the exchange about Wheldon as we have here, it would have been inappropriate.

They should ban the film Lock Stock & Two Smoking Barrels, as it has pikeys (sorry I mean soap challenged, alternatively financed people) in it.

It was just a storm in a teacup, a simple joke that I and many others laughed at. The amount of complaints it got is next to nothing compared to other things complained about on British TV. Didn't something like 40,000 complain about Jade Goody?

Non story.

I think it was an intentionally humorous misnomer. Part of the humour is that they don't use the word "pikeys" in Canada.

jesus some of you lot should go work for ofcom, or at least remove that high horse from underneath you

Which is the problem that prevails - what is 'politically correct' is entirely at the mercy of those who decide it to be so.

Politically Correct is usually the rallying cry of those who feel disenfranchised that they can't call someone a paki without others sneering at them.

But this is one of the things that a well paid professional commentator should be able to make a judgement on. If there is any doubt then they should err towards not giving voice to a word or phrase that might be considered politically incorrect or in bad taste.

I wouldn't dream of sharing some of the staffroom conversation with my pupils when I go back into the class. Likewise, the phrases that I use quite naturally with my brother would be out of place in the staff room. We all make judgements about what is or isn't acceptable for a particular audience. In this instance Brundle got the judgement wrong.

What drivel.


Politically Correct is the term for people who find offense where none exists and then demand that everyone change their language to suit. The sort of people that think a pupil-teacher interface cannot be called a blackboard because, despite it being a board, and black, and thus well named, the term black COULD also be applied to the colour of someone's skin, and thus could infer racism and oppression. Somehow.

The people who instigate such Politically Correct terms should be publically castigated and pilloried for their daft ideas.
Maybe ITV could turn it into a show.

If YOU take offense at something then explain why, but don't pretend to take offense on behalf of someone else.

It seems that there are a few people around here who should reply to Jimmy Carr's small ad:

"Small minority wanted to spoil it for the rest of us. There's always one - is it you? Please call 020 5297825"

The thing is that the shop owners and restauranters generally don't go around stealing car stereos. Also, they don't include a dag with every deal.

Spot on.

Good thing that's not happening here then.

agreed,and that goes for general things as well,not just what you might call people-i remember reading a couple of years ago that (and im not joking) its politically incorrect to call a car horn a car horn-you have to call it an audible warning system-go figure!

I cannot BELIEVE that you used the term "h*rn"! Twice!

I have never been so offended in my life.
That's it.
I'm going to write a letter of complaint to Bernie Ecclestone, ITV, Ofcom, Enron, Da Doo Ron Ron, James Allen, The UN, The EU, The FT, my MP, QPR, Toys R Us, Bellarus, David Bellamy, David Duchovny, David Letterman, David Blaine, The King of Spain.....and Points Of View.

Quite right.

Brundle made a comment that he didn't realise could be offensive. When he realised that it could be seen as offensive he explained that he hadn't meant the term to be derogatory and ITV published a full apology for the way that his comments could have been interpreted. Ofcom welcomed the apology and decided that it was enough.

It seems to be an absolutely sensible, reasonable, fair way of resolving the matter and it's remarkable to see that everyone involved was able to be so mature. Sadly it means that there's very little controversy to discuss unless someone tries to go off the topic and complain about "PC gone mad" in other walks of life and try to connect it to an honest mistake which Brundle made and apologised for.

Only if you believe, as Ross does (and he's entitled to) that Brundle was an idiot for saying it. If you believe, as you do, that he didn't know it could be offensive, however, how can he possibly be an idiot for saying it?

There are those - myself included - who think the very fact that Ofcom got involved in the matter to be completely and utterly over the top and indicative entirely of the 'PC gone mad' world that you seem to think does not exist. It does.

I prefer the term "success ballast"

Cool. I've got plenty of that.

The problem with people moaning about 'PC gone mad' is that they're so willing to take anything that supports their pet peeve at face value, without questioning the either the validity or authority of the source. It comes down to whether you're gullible enough to believe that 'obese' is now a taboo word, or that 'car horn' could be considered derogatory.

When Brundle made the 'Pikey' comment I thought it was crassly out of character for him. It wasn't a big deal, it was a poor joke which inadvertently made him sound like some Colonel Blimp figure. Thankfully nothing has come of it. Why this has turned into a discussion about political correctness eludes me, presumably the people complaining about "Jerry Springer: The Opera" were also labelled as politically correct? It seems to be the put-down du jour of the lazy-minded.

As it happens, I would cite the validity and authority of such sources, or otherwise, as being the root of the political correctness fad; a recent example has a council near to me issuing a statement that an advertising campaignb by a local organisation be amended as it had offended - topically - local gypsies, yet upon further investigation this was foind not to be the case. Someone at the council had decided that it MUST offend local gypsies, therefore should not be allowed. The gypsies themselves were not offended at all.

Completely agree. Which is why an ITV apology and no action from Ofcom is pretty spot on IMO.

So might I were I in the least successful............................