I'm not going to bite You're a funny guy.

Would the fact that your nick is schuey100, making you a Schumacher fan and as such someone who detests Jacques because he dared to speak out about the cheater, (official cheater as he was DQ'd for it making it official), in any way influence your thinking?

Every Schumacher fan hates Villeneuve because he hates Schumacher. Given the fact that Schumacher tried to kill him, I would say he has more of a reason to hate him than Schumacher fans have to hate JV.

And before you say it, yes I do think that Schumacher is a better driver than Villeneuve, I just think he is one of the best of the rest who has every right to badmouth someone who tried to cheat him out of his WDC, (official). Other than that, there is nothing that shows Lewis to be any better than JV, (try actually checking out the 96-97 season before commenting). Both showed signs of brilliance and signs of crapness. Both drove in one of the dominant cars for the first 2 seasons, and both were heralded at the time as being the new messiah.

Wait a few years before deciding Lewis is anything special. He still may go his entire career without winning a WDC.

JV's problem on his debut was not a tyre, it was an oil leak caused by running off the track while leading.

And the Williams was far more dominant than the 07 McLaren, which at best was on a par with the Ferraris. JV only had to beat the decent but not that special Hill and Frenzten.

But you're an FA fan aren't you? I don't follow why you want to paint him as not quite as good as Hill.

At least Hill beat JV .

Hill did not have the advantage of Frank screwing Jacques at every turn it was fair and square at Williams. OTOH even with Ron's total bias in his corner lewis still choked on the gift WDC and only managed a tie in points with the hamstrung 2X WDC Fernando Alonso.

Can't we stay on topic? There was plenty of threads about Hamilton and Alonso at Mclaren and, I shit you not, about JV.

Yes OK, since you insist . But the topic is a bit of a "what-if".
Not even as likely as that, even.

I could see why Ferrari would want Fernando or Kubi, but never both together. Ron would be chortling.

Yes but this is Alonso RK and Ferrari all in one thread, how could the future vanquished Mac team not get a mention in all that.

There is no column for lucky points but that doesnt mean we cant acknowledge it, especially when they are such a pure lottery as Piquets were. Probably the luckiest points in the history of the sport.

Its never happened period because Hamilton didnt spank Alonso. Equal points and wins, and Alonso beat him 10-7 in races.

Poor Alonso

wonder if Enzo would go for lewis and fred...

Imo kubi could easily pull a hamilton, but the fanclub fights on here would be hilarious

the tyre pressures where wrong! ferrari dont support him in the right way!

lewis had more mechinal issues than alonso iirec

I don't care what it appears to you, my opinion is built according to alonso's comments which are without a doubt 100% more accurate than yours..

no same treatment, boss' quote "we were racing fernando not kimi" sums it up...

no same equipment. last evolution was set in hamilton's car for brasil, impeding alonso to fight fairly for the championship, plus ceiling lights falling down on alonso's car, plus used tyres...

no same estrategy, hamilton's allowance to get always the very last attempt for pole, which by all means was crucial for race fate

now you can continue pointing out what it appears to you

In the last race of the season, JV took pole, and fastest lap. He also would have taken the win if it weren't for a tyre blowout.

In the last race of 2007, Lewis just needed to come behind Alonso and Kimi to win. He threw his car off the road instead and bottled it. Jacques lost out on a rookie WDC because of bad luck, Lewis lost out on a rookie WDC because he bottled it.

Jacques and Lewis had a similar first year, (though Lewis lost because of himself, whereas Jacques lost because of tyre problems).

As for comparisons to FA, remember Hungary decided that FA wouldn't win. Also remember that this was started by St Lewis. If Lewis did as he was told, FA would have been WDC and McLaren WCC.

Instead, Lewis told Ron to fuck off and McLaren lost both WDC and WCC.

If you want a total comparison between team mates look at this

All things considered, Alonso beat Lewis, but then again to you the number of second places is more important that the number of times the other guy finishes in front of you, because Lewis scored more first of the loser places.

don't waste your time josta...don't you know hamilton shattered alonso in his rookie season in the same car? it's been repeated 1000 times here in this bb

Hmmm....don't we have a thread somewhere to discuss the whole Alonso/McLaren debacle?

Amazing everlasting topic continues ...

+1 . Please pass that thing for me also. I desperately need the smoke to understand the likes of slate, oto, josta and the like. Whatever they take, takes them to a parallel world

I would love to see an alonso kubica fight and my money would be on kubica. It would be a 2007 repeat but will only be worse since kubi is no rookie. That would be a dream pairing, but i fear it would be the end of alonso. It will never happen though.

I can't believe the amount of hate Alonso takes in these forums , now it seems that even Kubica will beat him , c'mon , get real , you guys are comparing a 1 time race winner( albeit an excellent driver IMO) with a proven 2 WDC winner ??????, we all know that Kubica won that race mostly by luck ( having all the major players out of the race ) , althougth, don't get me wrong , I like Kubica , he is a very good driver, but we haven't see so far is he is capable of doing any better, or if he has the potential to win the WDC , but i don't think he will be a match for Alonso if he ever drives for Ferrari alongside him .

Also , in the never ending Hamilton-the-rookie-beat-destroyed--pulverised- anahilated-the-2WDC-teamamte-in-equal-cars BS that Hamilton fanboys pull all the time ( that is getting real old and tiresome by the way ), I just has to say : C'mon , get real , anybody with an IQ higher than 75 , could see that never happened , at least as you guys want it to make it look , the only reason why Hamilton appears ahead of Alonso in last year's Championship , is jsut to fulfill a technicallity , they can't both appear in second place , somebody has to be second and the other third , althougth , numbers don't lie , 109= 109 , it doesn't matter where you live or who you are , it has been like that since some genius of the past invented math , and to be honest , I was surprised that Alonso even managed to tie him on points , it was clear that after Monaco , Hamilton was McLaren main man for the WDC and that all the best resources that McLaren had , were going to be for their man ( hamilton) , so for Alonso to manage to even get close to hamilton on the WDC, with what he had and rigth on the middle of the spy saga and that poisonous enviroment that he found himself at Mclaren, it was a big achivement for him ....

Nestor,

The position regarding Kubica comes from Alonso himself - so it could hardly be this board that's to blame.

Alonso rates Kubica as quicker and better than Hamilton. Hamilton was at least as quick as Alonso in his first year of F1 when he was new to the technology and circuits. Kubica must therefore be quicker than Alonso. That's what Alonso himself has said - and as as one poster is keen on saying - there's no better source than the words of Alonso himself (as quoted in Marca ;) )

Have you heard anything about Kubica from Luca Di Montezemolo? I know he likes Alonso very much. Here you have an interview with Luca talking about Fernando
http://www.charlierose.com/shows/2008/06/0...-di-montezemolo but what about Robert? Is there any real chance for him to get this job in Maranello? He deserves the seat at Ferrari and it would be the real deal for him and his fans, but unfortunately there is no hard evidence that this scenario is going to be real.

Spot on! Mods, please clear the thread.

great link

but where´s the italian translation?!

Wasnt DH already in the lead when JV's wheel came off (The tyre didnt blow)?

Amen to that... it would be an awesome thing to watch. It would a be a fight to rival them all. Ferrari would struggle to handle it, only the Old Man could take managing the team around two warring team mates.




This is true. Alonso wouldn't risk his.. err.. friendship ;)












or his ass getting beat ;)
Loved Alonso, until he turned into a silly biatch. STFU and race!

There's one guy on the forum who claims he has unofficial information from the source (some of the Ferrari's important personality) and Kubica is Ferrari's number one in their list just ahead of Alonso. As he says Ferrari considers him as the best driver on the grid, Alonso is their second choice and they don't consider Hamilton because they think he lacks in certain areas.

So Alonso says Kubica is the best, Ferrari has Robert on the first place in the list. In karts Robert won Italian & German leagues (the strongest ones that time like today Spanish & English football leagues) in one year (he beat LH & NR) and the only race he has same machinery in higher series as Lewis is Macau F3 race from 2004 where he beats Hamilton (the only race they drove for the same team). It must be sth special in this guy don't you think?

You won't see many titles won by Kubica in lower series because he's from Poland. There's almost no history in motorsport in Poland. He always struggled with money and that's why he never drove in winning teams (contrary to Nico & Lewis). The opportunity arose in WSbR when got decent (but not great) car and won the competition.

As soon as he gets winning car he will win many races that's one the thing I'm completely sure like Phelps winning another gold medal ;)

Thats just fanboy wishful thinking. Kubica has done nothing for Ferrari to think so highly of him as the best driver on the grid.,so I find that 'information' not credible at all. In that charlie rose interview for example Luca didnt even mention kubica. Its because he hasnt done anything to warrant it. You need to do a lot more than outpace a journeyman for 1 year and a lucky win to be considered the best on the grid. Alonso second choice to Kubica is a joke.

He showed enough to get winning car and check if he can beat top guys like Kimi, Fernando or Lewis.

His way of thinking may also be defined, at least in some contexts, as being realistic more than your aggresive approach

I mean, of course, KERS behavior, not yours Bankoq. It’s also always a pleasure for me to be able to read your thoughts.

I've figured this out Mike

forgot to mention alonso doesn't even consider hamilton his toughest rival...he considers trully tougher, he was in the garage and knows what he is talking about...were you?

so using alonso's words, hamilton is way behind not only kubica, but also trulli and pantano...

Hamilton way behind Pantano

according to alonso yes, actually alonso considers the italian his toughest rival ever, alonso's raced against him...have you?

The only time Pantano and Alonso battled for anything was in karting 9 years ago.

Of course Hamilton wasn't tough. Still managed to beat the little Spaniard though. Must have been some kind of fix Mclaren sabotaged his car!! Damned unfair!! Blah Blah Blah. Guess we'll never know now that Fred's run off to the bosom of Flav's sweaty thong but my guess is that post TC and with the rookie now up to speed in F1, Alonso will never challenge Hamilton again unless he has a reasonable car advantage.

All I'm saying is Alonso sure as hell couldn't risk going to Ferrari and being partnered with a real quicky like Kubica, Rosberg or Vettel. Unless he signed with guaranteed no.1 status, he'd be found out as a top line but not exceptional driver - and if he manages to negotiate his beloved no.1 status, there's no way real racers like Kubica or Vettel will sign up to be his lacky.

Don't forget that Hamilton is up to speed because he has a reasonable car advantage over Alonso.
Maybe Kovalainen would make a good and nice lackey. But no, he's already Hamiltons lackey, isn't he?

Well, it seems Alonso & Hamilton finally have sth in common. They both have informal nr.2 drivers in their teams who are there only to help them ;)

Let's be real , F1 is more a business than sport , and as business you want the best employee to do the job , in Ferrari's case , their bosses and especially LDM knows that , something like : " let's get Alonso , a proven WDC , that given the rigth equipment , he will deliver , and let's get another good driver ( Kubica) to help him win the WCC " , and there is nothing wrong with that , but from there towards Kubica is going to beat Alonso , is big strecht, especially because Kubica migth be an excellent driver but doesn't know how to win a WDC yet , that he could win it ? most likely yes , but at this point is unknown , and as a boss , you want a proven driver that can deliver, an we all know that Alonso is very well capable of doing that , in fact he alrady did it twice, besides that , I'll bet you Alonso would be doing a lot better than Kimi this year i he was driving that car instead of kimi , he probably would be leading the WDC by a large margin ( with or without preferent treatment or #1 status ) , something that neither Massa or kimi could manage to do yet ....

You know, the more and more I think of this, the more I believe this is not so much an attempt by Ferrari to get both drivers, but to try attain one of them. Ferrari, in their modern form, are very reluctant to get two drivers to compete with eachother. One of the philosphies of Ferrari that I love best is that they exist for themselves, they do not hide behind the illusion that they are here for the sport above all. They want a team that secures a WDC and a WCC, with no real regard for the "tools" (aka drivers) they use. This means a SINGLE driver to gain a WDC and another in support to gain points. This strategy, which so many have despised (Schu and Barichello), is being used by every single major team (ie mclaren with Kov and Lweis) due to its success, and ironically ferrari is not at this point. This has hampered them this season, and would have last season if reliability hadnt solved thier problem in the case of Massa.

In a sense, an Alonso/Kubica pairing works well because as weve seen Kubica is able to take a quick car and make very consistant podiums and points, while not showing a considerable amount of blinding pace. Coupling this with Alonso's sheer aggression could make for an interesting team. BUT, what we forget is that Kubica is makign do with a car that is considerably slower then the MAc and ferrari, and so his startegy is a reflection of that. Put him in the Ferrari and its possible he might show some of the aggression, pace and drive that makes a driver a world champion, and as weve seen, makes alonso very uncomfortable.

Thinking back, when Ferrari enlisted the services of Shu, they knew, from day 1, he was their number one. Kubica couldnt possibly be that same person as hes still untested, while alonso may just be the guy they need. Personally, I think Alonso is a good match for Ferrari and with the trials and tribulations he is now undergoing at Reanault, he might just be mature enough too. I personally believe that this pairing is a very desirable, but unlikely, possibility.

This possibility pretty much rests on a couple factors in my mind. Is ferrari prepared to get rid of Massa? They have invested considerable time and money into him, so to see him go to another team might not be a good scenario. Kimi will most likely retire end of 2010, and if he does, some continuity would most likely be neccesary, so keeping Massa would be a good decision. At that point, Alonso becomes a good option, and if he shows good chemistry, Massa might not be as useful as he once was. In that case, brining on a young Pole, in 2011 fresh when his BMW contract expires might prove to make a very good team. A driver with an ego that will have the teams supoprt (again assuming good chemistry) and a quick, young Pole with the experience and proven ability needed to race for the worlds greatest team.

Is he? F1 is funny these days. Convincingly outpace a teammate and all of a sudden you are getting different equipment and preferential treatment. Fail to do so and you are a loser. Awfully difficult to please some "enthusiasts" isn't it.

I see. Alonsos #2 is a lackey. Hamiltons #2 is outpaced fair and square under absolutely equal conditions and treatments. Of course.

And your point is? That Montezemolo only signs proven WDCs, and no drivers who don't know how to win a WDC yet?

Remember: Raikkonen did not know how to win a WDC when he joined Ferrari.

Are you certain that Kubica is really such a big card? I am going against this popular opinion, and remain convinced that smart guys (like JT) would never hire him. I am lazy to elaborate further, but I do consider him a crusier (as opposed to hungry racer who is getting more out of the car than car can give him). Dr. T hired him as unknown - took a chance over Canadian, but now Kubica is known. I am not impressed by what he is doing with a superior car, but very concern when he, as a driver, needs to pull his socks, shut up and drive!

I think its more to do with Heikki always being heavier in qualifying and moving over when ever hes ahead of Hamilton. 3 times in 11 races is some kind of record. Alonso or even Schumacher never had that kind of team treatment. He would want to win the wc this year with all this help. He had enough last year also and didnt do it.

You speak as if Alonso has never had quick team mates before. Trulli and Fisichella ring a bell? Before teamed with Alonso they were rated as two of the fastest on the grid. Now we have all this talk of Alonso needing protecting from every driver on the grid. Just wild bashing without any substance.

naw theres a smidge of substance to it

I am pretty sure Kimi met his toughest rival ever when he played on a sandbox.

Trouble with your examples is that the evidence seems to suggest he does need protecting from them, especially Trulli whose days in the team came to an abrupt end when beating Flavios's star.

I dont know what 'flavio's star' means, can you explain? He wasnt managed by Flavio since 2002 as i understand and both were just Renault employee's. Trulli's days came to and end after a string of poor performances so you seem mistaken about what actually happened in 2004. Trulli was poor throughout 2004 except Monaco and was poor in 2003, so his demise was not sudden and surprising if you actually follow the races and understand them.