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Full Version: Alonso 'I want to prove I'm the best'
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Mat
Originally posted by Gareth
I completely agree. When I've said McLaren supported Alonso over Hungary qualfiying I understand fully this was not because they supported Alonso over Hamilton and was entirely because they wanted the Macs to start 1-2 on Sunday, not 1-6 or worse.

I raise it in this thread, however, to counter the notion that Mac were pro Hamilton and anti Alonso. If that were the case, they would have hung Fernando out to dry, not supported him and lie for him.

I agree with what you said: Mac supported Mac through '07. I also agree with as65p who, in another thread, suggested they did this in typical clumsy Mac fashion, and it cost them dear IMO. But they were clunking around trying to do the right thing for the team, not deviously trying to do over 1 driver.


well said. I agree. up.gif
Peter Punk
Originally posted by otoelpiloto


at least somebody has the patiente to explain and clarify this things, I couldn't say it in a better way, well done mate lol.gif

I remember one of this misquotes when alonso claimed renault didn't support him (which created all this negative aurea against him)...when in fact he only meant that in that specific race he'd love to be treated like ferrari did to schumy, shockingly absurd


And Ferrari treated Schumi as an undisputed #1. He was just whining 'cause Fisichella took the opportunity that was presented to him, a slower Alonso.

As a spanish speaker I don't agree with many of your assertions. You can misinterpret things said in english just beacuse you're biased towards certain thing. One good example of this is: "We were basically racing Fernando". Spanish media and spanish fans see this as a proof of how biased Mclaren was (?) to Hamilton in China, when that's not the case.

En español: "Basicamente corríamos contra Fernando", dada la situación que Kimi no representaba una amenaza para el primer y sgeundo puesto de Mclaren a esas alturas de la carrera, se entiende claramente que el comentario de Ron Dennis indicaba que existía una batalla en la pista entre los dos compañeros, como en los tiempos de Ayrton Senna y Alain Prost. ¿O es que acaso dos compañeros de equipo no pueden correr entre ellos?

To all non spanish readers in the BB, excuse my paragraph in spanish, but I just felt that I had to try to make a point, and try to make otoelpiloto understands how biased he is towards Alonso!
CatharticF1
Originally posted by Gareth

I raise it in this thread, however, to counter the notion that Mac were pro Hamilton and anti Alonso. If that were the case, they would have hung Fernando out to dry, not supported him and lie for him.


That is an interpretation though and incorrect. McLaren could not be seen to be anything but supportive of Alonso given the team's actions in Hungary without incriminating themselves.

The only conclusion is that they were protecting themselves.
as65p
Originally posted by Gareth
I completely agree. When I've said McLaren supported Alonso over Hungary qualfiying I understand fully this was not because they supported Alonso over Hamilton and was entirely because they wanted the Macs to start 1-2 on Sunday, not 1-6 or worse.

I raise it in this thread, however, to counter the notion that Mac were pro Hamilton and anti Alonso. If that were the case, they would have hung Fernando out to dry, not supported him and lie for him.

I agree with what you said: Mac supported Mac through '07. I also agree with as65p who, in another thread, suggested they did this in typical clumsy Mac fashion, and it cost them dear IMO. But they were clunking around trying to do the right thing for the team, not deviously trying to do over 1 driver.


wave.gif

I'd like to add a small twist which, to me at least, makes the whole affair more plausible. You're right that McLaren first and foremost had their very own interests in mind, as
also written by JSDSKI


MAC's actions in 2007 are best understood by keeping in mind MAC's business and corporate interests as opposed to those of "this driver or that driver".


By putting their eggs in Lewis' basket they did precisely that: go the road that offers the best prospects for the company in the middle and long term. And even if Lewis faltered a bit at the end of 2007, that's still likely to pay off. It's not very often that teams get such an opportunity to present a driver as their very own "product" who's as good as Lewis, as marketable as Lewis and from the same country on top of it. The marketing possibilities are huuuge, a once-in-a-lifetime chance. There was no way they could have resisted such a temptation.

Even if Alonso had kept his short hair and played corporate whore all along, they wouldn't have made half the money they're going to make with Lewis in the next five years.

Of course, there's that tiny lingering sting... what's going to happen if McLaren produces a dog one year and Ferrari makes the right offer at the right time? Now that would hurt...wink.gif
Orin
as65p, McLaren is first and foremost about winning champions, the idea of them hiring Alonso then switching to Hamilton as soon as he looked half decent is nothing more than fanboy delusion. McLaren repeatedly tried to resolve their problems with Alonso right up until the blackmail incident in Hungary, only after that did the situation change. You're jumping through too many hoops looking for excuses for Alonso's form in 2007, it's much simpler than that: he struggled on the new tyres and he objected to a rookie being accommodated equally with a double world champion - most particularly when that rookie sailed ahead in the championship. His reaction to this double humiliation, painting himself as a victim of xenophobia and nationalism, should only fool the most willingly deluded.
as65p
Originally posted by Orin
as65p, McLaren is first and foremost about winning champions, the idea of them hiring Alonso then switching to Hamilton as soon as he looked half decent is nothing more than fanboy delusion. McLaren repeatedly tried to resolve their problems with Alonso right up until the blackmail incident in Hungary, only after that did the situation change. You're jumping through too many hoops looking for excuses for Alonso's form in 2007, it's much simpler than that: he struggled on the new tyres and he objected to a rookie being accommodated equally with a double world champion - most particularly when that rookie sailed ahead in the championship. His reaction to this double humiliation, painting himself as a victim of xenophobia and nationalism, should only fool the most willingly deluded.


I prefer to stick to my version which doesn't rely on so many strong and exaggerating terms like "fanboy delusion", "looking for excuses", "xenophobia", "nationalism" and "deluded".

They're all fallible humans like the rest of us. Overall Alonso coped not very well with the challenge presented to him at McLaren, but Lewis speed was only one part of this challenge. It's quite obvious that we will never agree how big that part was or how deciding the remaining factors were.

I'm fine with our disagreement, there's no need to go through all this for the hundreths time. Okay?
Orin
Originally posted by as65p


I prefer to stick to my version which doesn't rely on so many strong and exaggerating terms like "fanboy delusion", "looking for excuses", "xenophobia", "nationalism" and "deluded".

They're all fallible humans like the rest of us. Overall Alonso coped not very well with the challenge presented to him at McLaren, but Lewis speed was only one part of this challenge. It's quite obvious that we will never agree how big that part was or how deciding the remaining factors were.

I'm fine with our disagreement, there's no need to go through all this for the hundreths time. Okay?


While all sides own some of the guilt I don't think the suggestion that McLaren had dropped Alonso for Hamilton prior to Hungary holds any water, on the contrary they were bending over backwards trying to placate the Spaniard. Moreover, the suggestion that this was marketing led sounds like fanciful thinking: McLaren's sole goal has been to win championships, from which marketing revenues inevitably follow. Fair enough if you don't want to debate it, but it sounds like you're clutching at straws.
as65p
Originally posted by Orin


While all sides own some of the guilt I don't think the suggestion that McLaren had dropped Alonso for Hamilton prior to Hungary holds any water, on the contrary they were bending over backwards trying to placate the Spaniard. Moreover, the suggestion that this was marketing led sounds like fanciful thinking: McLaren's sole goal has been to win championships, from which marketing revenues inevitably follow. Fair enough if you don't want to debate it, but it sounds like you're clutching at straws.


I have debated it, I just don't feel like repeating it all over again.

OTOH, if you can't surpress the urge to go there another time, I suggest you browse through those old threads... reading one post at a time with small pauses in between it might feel almost real.wink.gif
holiday
In 2006, in my view Alonso displayed more consistency than Schumacher, but MS showed the better peak performances. Same in 2005 with FA and Kimi.
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