Ah yes, 100% preferential treatment. Like Monaco where ... errr .... Alonso got the best strategy. Or Hungary where ... errrrr ... McLaren lied for Alonso to try and cover up his act and retain him his pole position. Yup, 100%, absolutely spot on ...

Sorry my bad, Ham never got the full 100% advantage until after he screwed Fernando (and the team) in Hungary. Sad that Ham could not make something of all the advantages handed him.

alonso the best strategy in monaco? mclaren lied for alonso in hungary? ...so now apparently alonso was dennis' beloved

thus...this video was totally right about their romance http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=SjBu_wsbLjs

correct me if i'm wrong but presumably you think mc lied to the fia to protect fernando's pole before lewis didn't let fernando and kimi by? what a confusing world some people inhabit

As le chat points out, McLaren attempting to protect Alonso from the FIA occurred post Hamilton's Hungary actions.

Any evidence of preferential treatment for Hamilton post Hungary? I'm guessing this will lead to a repetition of the tired old out of context "we were racing Alonso" quote :yawn:


Yup - as I posted in that other Hamilton bash fest thread:

"[Hamilton would only have been advantaged with his strategy by] a hypthetical safety car, within a very specific and tight window [...]. As was shown by the fact Hamilton was brought in early, and not allowed to use his full fuel load in stint 1, to protect against a possible safety car.

Hamilton's strategy was only better if there was an SC and that SC fell within specific laps, which was less likely than no SC or an SC outside that window. So overall Alonso had the better strategy for that race."


Yes they did - both in the post qualifying press conference McLaren held and in the stewards meeting, where they tried to claim that Alonso did not deliberately hold Hamilton. And got caught out in their lie - hence the McLaren team penalty.

Go back and read reports of that press conference and tell me that Dennis was not supporting Alonso as against Hamilton ...

and amusingly of course, in their own pc 'beat the team' sorry 'meet the team', ron had to turn to fernando to ask if he'd got the lie right

Yes Arrow, you are obsessed with Alonso and need help

Spot on! Not even in the same class.

If the FIA wanted to screw mercif they had even the tinyest wiff in the world, they last year they would have.

I think Fernando, threw his toys out the pram, the FIA investigated, and found noting excepting that Fernando was a sore looser.
Dont get me wrong I really like Alonso in the car, but i'm under no illusion he got beat fair and square.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being blind.

last year, remember he came 3rd.

I jsut wander if he'll ever beat hamilton throughout his career at all?

Dennis in the PC (from the autosport report) my emphasis added:

From the stewards' decision, again my emphasis added:

The PC was a lie. A lie told to favour Alonso. But supposedly this was the point that McLaren started screwing Alonso.

Asked why, then did Alonso sit ahead of Hamilton in the pit box for some ten seconds, Dennis replied: "He's under the control of his engineer. He [the engineer] determined when he goes. That's the sequence. And if you think that was a deliberate thing, then you can think what you want. I have given you exactly what happened."

Hang on then. Its not an outright lie. He tells of the sequence - He's under the control of his engineer. He [the engineer] determined when he goes. That's the sequence - which is true, but in this case fa ignored the signal, raising the lollipop, then ron continues - And if you think that was a deliberate thing, then you can think what you want. - which you can read as please do think it was deliberate - I have given you exactly what happened."
ronspeak!

he is not more obsessed then SeanValen towards Schumacher for example..

Very true! Although I think it is obvious the impression he was trying to convey (that it was not deliberate). The proper answer to the question was (if Alonso was telling the truth to the stewards) : Fernando chose to sit there for that time as he was querying the choice of tyre, which he is perfectly entitled to do. Of course that was also BS, which was why McLaren chose not to release the pit radio transmissions which would (if the story - well, second stab at the story - was correct) have exonerated them.

ahhh, you mean in general...yep, kimi beat him fair and square, claps for kimi...wonderful achievement he deserved it, Im never going to deny an evidence

Yup both Kimi and Lewis beat Alonso Fair and Square. Good achievement for Hamilton being a 1st year Rookey. Oh and it was not a walkover, i think 1st-3rd it's the closest WDC ever.

first, lewis got the same points as alonso 109 and according to impartial research alonso beat him in general(ignoring the mathematical necessity of split pilots with same amount of points by counting his 2nds, 3rds etc etc, and second it wasn't fair and square, he was racing against a whole team to whom was close to beat

according to impartial research?????? Where, The Fia says Lewis was 2nd, Alonso was 3rd, were the FIA against Fernando as well????

Racing against the whole team... If that was true, McMerc would have simply didched him and put in Pedro De La Rossa...

Any other opinions you wans to express???

I'll stick to fact thanks, FIA says Lewis beat Ferando. Considdering how good Ham has been lately I think thats a complament that Alonso came so close to him....

As I say i wander If Alons will ever be able to better Ham in the rest of his career, Maybe if he gets a Ferrari Sat and the Farrari is Better than the McMerc....

somebody posted a link yesterday, overall alonso advantaged hamilton by +6, outperformed the british in 7 out of 10 direct confrontations, more fastest laps and other stuff, the only thing that raises hamilton to 2nd place even with, which doesn't mean beaten at all, is the ruled decision of bigger number of 2nds,....if this for you is beaten...ok, then hamilton beat alonso,

and yes, he was racing the whole team, and the only reason mclaren didn't didch him and put in pedro was because of santander bank pressure and kimi improvement throughtout second half of the season, again quoting ron "we were racing fernando, not kimi" if you analise it...first "we" which means, all of us, the team, and second "racing fernando" which means were trying to beat fernando, kimi wasn't their war...white and in glass bottle...

and alonso doesn't need a stronger ferrari to beat him, just in a above average renault or bmw would do it easily,

+6 what points?

He finished with the same points in the championship and finished behind him, thats un deniable fact.

"we were racing Fernando" he was talking about Lewis's side of the garage i expect. Either way You are expressing your oppinion there is 0 fact there. The FIA investigated mclaren for its team play (lets face it they were dieing to punish mac more) and they found NOTHING no bias, no advantage, nothing, sorry to distroy your thoery but it wasnt me it was the sports regualtor. If you dont like it blame Max.

The only way I can ever se Alonso beating Hamilton is if he has a stronger car. Just look at his performaces this year less than great car. If he doent have a great car he is pretty prone to error and mistake.

Someone offered you an "o" last week to fix your wanders for good Mika.

Remember it's wonderful "wonder" and "wander" is for wankers

Of the drivers on the grid now, Alonso is technically the most complete driver.

That said, I would never have him in my team. I would put Kimi, Lewis and Kubica in my team before Alonso. Their attitudes make up for any technical talent they may lack.

why would Ron say "..... were are not racing Kimi"?

for doing such idiotic thing he lost the title..

"The best" is relative. I think Kubica is about best or 2nd best this year, but last year I sure as hell didn't. Drivers don't perform like computers, they have periods of better or worse form.

Alonso IMO was the outright #1 in the field or about equal best in 05, 06 and up until a point in 07 - but then Lewis' speed got to his head and he started losing the plot. This year he is frustrated with the poor Renault which is understandable, the talent is still obviously there, but he's been wasting a bit too many results for me to still consider him the best. I think he's overdriving and therefore not materializing his potential - unlike before when he was very very solid.

+6 in an overall assessment of confrontations, fastest laps and other stuff, nothing to do with championship score system, trying to look up the link, I'll post it if I can find it
exactly,he was talking from lewis' side of garage, the one he supported, his enemy was his other driver, it's pretty clear "racing fernando" even my mother who hasn't a clue of english does understand it easily. btw they found nothing to blame on mclaren, of course not, they're not stupid, were able to hide a spy scandal which probably would never come out to light without hungary incident, so there is a reason to think they could conceal things.
and it's not my theory nor my opinion, everything I defend came out of alonso's mouth.


last year was able to even him within a team 100% supportive to his english guy, if the situation was the same but within renault team and under flav rules, alonso would have smashed hamilton easily with a gap even bigger of what he got against fisichella. alonso and a team backing him up doesn't need a stronger car to beat hamilton, a car slightly weaker would be enough

I'm quite sure that Alonso had his days when he was the best of the bunch. But he isn't always the best of the bunch.

This argument implies that suspicion is the same as proof.
I believe it was a Spanish association that requested an inspector, not the FIA itself. The inspector was appointed by the FIA. He found no evidence of partial treatment.
There are 2 possible conclusions:
i) McLaren successfully hid their unequal treatment of their drivers
ii) There was no impartial treatment

The reasonable conclusion is ii)
The unreasonable conclusion is i)
Of course, if you choose to believe conclusion i) to be true, you have a 50/50 chance of correctly identifying the favoured driver!

Unfortunately, some people will always believe that 'there is no smoke without fire'

It would be most interesting to know how exactly the inspector controlled and rated the treatment of both McLaren drivers.

With the clapometer ? If the team applauded Hamilton more then they were obviously biased to him.

It would indeed!
It would also be interesting to know what offenses he was looking for.

Silly. Its obvious you are not smart enough to work out 'they' sent the equivalent of a modern day Inspector Clouseau.
He was watching dead of night for miscreants that would sneak into the McLaren garage and pump lead air into Alonsos tyres and or cut the cables holding the lights over his side of the garage..

Doh! (Smacks head)

Many posters keep stating "Ron lied.... McLaren lied... to protect Alonso" without considering McLaren's desire to
protect its own image, Ron's image, and Hamilton's. After all, it was Lewis who blew off team orders - basically going back on his word in the heat of qualifying.

Ron and McLaren spun the events to protect McLaren, which happened to have one very angry driver named Alonso, rather than to protect Alonso's reputation. Their other major concern was having this thing blow up in the middle of "Stepneygate".

But I'd bet their primary concern that day was trying to keep a McLaren front row and not allow a Ferrari in front of either car at one of the world's worst passing circuits. Late into that evening Ron thought it had all blown over and was telling Alonso not to worry - he'd still have pole. It wasn't until the next morning the grid penalty was handed down. RD and McLaren did their best for McLaren, at the time, let's not fool ourselves.

And the problem with that is exactly?

If you wanted to prove your the best, why didn't you stay at Mclaren and beat Hamilton there. It's really lame Alonso came back to Renault only after one season at Mclaren, where a rookie outscored him. I wasn't impressed, I think had he stayed at Mclaren, and tried to beat Hamilton there in the 2nd season, it would of been great for f1, and great for him.


As he said himself a while ago, the Renault challenge was over for him, Hamilton was unexpected, but now he's in f1, and has proven he's good, I think it was Alonso's best chance to prove something, he lost in 2007, if he really thought he was better, he would of stayed, I don't think he's better, but he can put up a good fight and is one of the best, but not the best.

Out of three drivers, only one seems to have done well on bstones, Hamilton, Alonso and Kimi's best days so far have been on michelins, I don't think Alonso seemed all that well on bstones in 2007, he and Kimi's careers in f1 have been born on michelin mostly. Kimi has to prove things as much as Alonso, I think Hamilton is the best right now, especially with Schumacher at home, not by much, but by enough. I like Kimi alot, but until he sorts out his qualifying, I think his ferrari days haven't been what we expected compare to his michelin performances. And if I'm not wrong, Alonso and Kimi's shakey seasons have been with bridgestone. Schumacher M was adapative and quick everywhere, different rules and eras, I think it's still early to judge things, but I remember Alonso performances at Indy, in 2006, and 2007, and he was just lost, losing out to teamates, and not knowing how to be really fast around there, he can't be the best if he has issues like this, he is disappointing when the car isn't right at times, Trulli had him in the first half of 2004 as well, so I'm convinced, he's fast only things are just right, and I'm afraid that is not a sign of the best.

Really?
By how many points?

Hes off the pace maybe once a season, so things are 'just right' for him basically every single race. How many races in his entire career has he been off the pace? Ive been watching some races lately so I can help you out.

France 2003.
Germany 2003
Indy 2006
Bahrain 2007
Canada 2007

So thats 5 races in 6 years which proves what you claim is simply not true. Thats Schumacher or Senna like consistency of speed and not a driver who relies on things being 'just right'.

i dont think he wanted tobe unhappy for a year to try and prove something, which maybe unproveable. i think macca also had a fuck this, i really cant be bothered with all this hassle anymore (collectively).

i think youve got try to prove something if your in F1, if you just enjoy it then really you should race elsewhere, where the racing is better...

Sorry but that's simply not true... No matter how much you dream it Alonso did have the support of his team just watch some videos on youtube of alonso winning races for mclaren particually Monza... the McLaren Mecs are extsatic... The FIA PROVED there was no BIAS I'm sorry you don't believe the FIA but they are more impartial than you...

The simple facet of the matter is he was beaten - not resoundingly it was close - but he was beaten...

This years Alonso's car is slightly weaker not doing too great is he???? Alonso needs a stronger car to beat ham, he already proved last year he could only equal him in the same machinery.

As For Renault, how many times did Alonso say the team was not supporting him there in 2006??? Several IIRC, My opinion (and it is my opinion) is that Alonso simply is NOT a team player He accused both Renaut and Mclaren of Bias and if he moves to honda or Ferrari id not be in the slightest bit surprised if he did the same there!!!

SeanValen is right, If Alonso wanted to prove he was better than Hamilton he should have stayed at McLaren.

I think that's a fair assessment.

That's very impressive consistency. I assume from this that you don't think Alonso was held-back at all when at McLaren?

How did they prove there was no bias? I hope your not talking about the police who sat in the garage listening to team radio

So are you saying that team mates perform exactly the same each year? Did you watch the mclaren drivers in 1997 and 1998? Quite a difference. Things go up and down each year. All 2007 showed is that it would always be close between them either way


He said it once in 2006 not several times. I cant see how you can come to the conclusion that one little outburst in a high pressure situation in 4 years proves hes not a team player. Utter nonsense. You have to judge his whole Renault career not just one little negative moment.

I'd like to jump in here and post another message in support of Fernando. However, for fear of being lumped in with some of the propagandists, miscreants and ne'erdowells who continue to post such complete rubbish in his defence I wont.

I have to admit that I can see your point...

Also it would only create confusion. It's utterly irresponsible to support Hamilton yet still sometimes post positively about Alonso , or vice-versa.

the answer to this post is easy, alonso already replied it a couple of weeks ago, if I had stayed in mclaren I wouldn't have any chance to win, I wouldn't be allowed......enough said

can you explain to me then why his wife and manager moved out to renault garage because of mclaren behaviour? or why should the stewards, who are in vast majority english and whose resolutions are commonly put in doubt by international press (example alonso punishment over massa), be more impartial?


again, he wasn't beaten, they tied and taking into account that alonso's car was slightly weaker last race when mclaren gave to hamilton the last evolution,therefore is a great performance which proves he'd beat hamilton with the same car and a team organised properly, also bear in mind that without hungary punishment or bahrein "strange" incident, alonso would have beaten hamilton


he never ever said that, it was a clear example of what is called false friends, which means unaccurate translations of one language into another, in this case carried out by british press. I really doubt renault would have signed him in again and were delighted with it if these statements were true and by the way he doesn't want to prove to be better than hamilton, which he is and he knows he is, he wants to prove he's the best

True.

Off topic slightly:
I still do not understand why Honda would want him in the team for 1 year? This was reported in this week or last weeks Autosport. 1 year deal is on the table for Alonso. I cannot understand why. This must mean Honda have no confidence in their own drivers.

Honda should cultivate some GP2 talent rather than hang their hopes on a temperamental driver such as Alonso. Alonso won't give you 6 tenths! He'll give you hell saying that your prefer Jenson over him. Then the Spanish fallout will ensue!

Damaged goods.

maybe you have more information about alonso than brawn himself who researched about alonso by asking engineers who've already worked with him,,,share it please!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2008/aug/0...one.motorsports

"The feeling at Honda is that a driver of Alonso's calibre could be worth as much as 0.6sec a lap and the Spaniard's test and development talents are just what Honda need in 2009 when a raft of new aerodynamic rules, slick tyres and KERS energy regeneration systems, are being introduced."