Was he ever?

Was he the best driver whilst MS was around and was he better than Kimi or Lewis last year?

This sounds like a the typically conceited Alonso we all 'love'...

Fernando Alonso says he needs a "super performance" in the remaining seven races of the season to prove that he is still a top-flight Formula 1 driver.

Having been accustomed to racing at the sharp end of the field over the past three years, the double world champion has had to adapt to life in the midfield since returning to Renault at the start of 2008.

And while he is keeping the paddock guessing as to where he will drive next year, he is intent on achieving a big result to underline his calibre.

“I’ll keep fighting for a podium or even a victory this year because that will prove that I’m still here,” Alonso told the August issue of F1 Racing magazine.

“I want to prove to everybody that I’m still the best so I need a super performance to do that, which means a podium or a win.

“And I’ll be trying to do it in the second part of the season.”

Apparently he must be.

Why else would Hamiltons fans want to talk about him so much, even in a season he's trundling around in midfield?

With all due respect....most racing drivers think they are the best thing since sliced bread and that given equal equipment they'll thrash the pants off their rivals. I don't think this is exclusive to Alonso

I don't think he's the best, but I think he's a member of the top three in Formula One. IMO those drivers are Hamilton, Kubica and Alonso.

To my mind the Raikkonen's performance is too lacklustre this season, and Massa is still too inconsistent. A world champion at one race, spinning like a novice in the next.

So I think Alonso could certainly prove he is still one of the best if he gets his hands on a top car.

But he's rather damaged goods after his season of petulance at McLaren. If reports are to be believed, emerging top teams like BMW think he isn't a team player when things aren't going his way.

Still I really hope Ferrari jettison Raikkonen and hire Alonso for 2010 or even 2009. I think he'd be awesome there.

He deserves to be racing at the front of the grid.

Bingo!!!
And if there is a driver who doesn't think that, then he doesn't belong in F1.
I'm not a fan of Alonso, or Hamilton for that matter, but this constant bashfest is getting stupid. This forum was once a really good place to come and read some informative posts. Now with a couple of exceptions, it seems even the most offtopic post can be focused into some bashing.

These days to prove that you are any good you need to be in a championship worthy car or utterly destroy a somewhat established driver (like R.Kube did to Heidfeld). Fernando needs a championship winning car soon, either with Renault or elsewhere.

Jim Clark never thought he was the best, he so talented on a natural level he never understood it and genuinely wondered why the rest couldn't keep up?

EGO makes up for alot, but it's never more important than pure unadulterated talent.

Hamilton fans like talking about the fight last year because for the fist time ever,a rookie rattled a 2x WDC big time. The rest as they say is history.

Ummm who might that 2X WDC and Rookie be ?.......

In the car, Alonso is easily still top 4-along with Lewis, Kimi, and Robert K. Out of the car, well.......we won't go there right now. I hope to see him at the sharp end of the grid next year because it makes the racing better for all of us.

Alonso could have been WDC last year if he hadn't been such an arse at Hungary. He was brilliant. His brilliance was obvious to many even while he was in a Minardi. He's put in some storming performances this year too, so he's still brilliant.

Whether he is 'The Best' I don't know, but surely his entry on the list of candidates is beyond doubt?

Hmmm, not sure I agree with that. Heidfeld had the upper hand last year. This year all Heidfeld's problems are down to qualifying. He is equally as good in the races. After all, despite the toughest season of his career, Quick Nick is only eight points behind Kubica. Less of a margin than Hamilton to Kovalainen.

Also from that interview, something a lot don't want to hear:

Q: Have you ever asked for preferantial treatment in any team?

A: People always talk about first driver, second driver and things like that. I wasn't asking to be the first driver. Never. I never asked that, in any team. But what I can't accept is being treated like the fourth or fifth driver, you know? At least I want to have the same opportunities as my team mate, and that didn't happen in the last part of last years championship. And that was the no return point.

Well the championships show that for 2 seasons at least he was the best.

I agree with his statement about producing a super performance. I know he is in a mid-field car, but really a top driver should be able to produce some standout performances, even if they don't result in big points. This season he really hasnt done that, and has made a lot of mistakes. You can say he is overdriving to try and compensate, but really that's just an excuse.

I agree.

Without that degree of self-belief, I doubt if any driver could negotiate all the obstacles and pitfalls to even reach F1 in it's modern incarnation.

Every sports psychologist and PMA coach seems to use Muhammad Ali as a positive role-model. By comparison even the most egotistical F1 drivers were (are?) paragons of modesty.

And surely 2 world championships must give some bragging rights?

He is WDC material no doubt - 2 hard fought titles confirm that - and he is not the lucky WDC material like DC was once. He is a true winner who can drag the car around to win races when its not capable of all by itself. Just look at what Fisichella achieved in near equal equipment two seasons on the trot.

BUT - I am not convinced he is as good as Michael Schumacher. Remember that 2005 was the trough period for Bridgestone and 2006 saw Bridgestone playing catchup. Alonso beat Michael surely - but not in comparable cars in 2005 and not with same tyres in 2006 ... but he was damn good . He took the fight to Michael in every race , every corner. Damn impressive. Still ... that was Michael at the fag end of his career. Can alonso ride out this rough period at Renault ala Michael did at Ferrari in 96-98 ? Can he still maintain the motivation till he gets a winning car ? Lets see when he gets back into a winning car if he is a Michael Schumacher or another JV story repeat...

I remember seeing Mika Salo at an autosport event in January 1999 (I think) where he said if he had the same car as Michael Schumacher he'd run rings around him (or something to that effect).

Does any driver in F1 - or for that matter GP2 or F3 or Indy or NASCAR - not think they're the best? Isn't it a prerequisite?

I thought part of Alonso's settlement deal with McLaren was a gag clause?

I think that comment shows that, despite being a world class driver, he's also awfully insecure and paranoid.

That's the great tragedy of Fernando Alonso.

So why did he not sell the same pitch to Williams, Maclaren and Renault ? Their cars were a match give or take for that Ferrari Michael helped resurrect from the doldrums no?
Oh wait,he did but they said-computer says nah!

probably happened didn't it? in that that year, he got the same car as michael, michael's car no less, and drove rings around him, supposing ms watched some races when broken legged. course he could have run around him too. and he did quickly dominate eddie.

We will never know who is the best driver in the field.

But with most of the drivers, you just know that he isn't the one.

Alonso (who's my favourite driver), in my opinion, is among the drivers who can possibly be the best driver now. Because he's never been worse than a team mate before. He was equal to Hamilton who I consider a "possibly best" driver too.

Does he deserve to be a two-time WDC? Definetely. I think he's a better driver than Kimi, but in 2005 they both did very well, McLaren had to gamble, they used a stronger but more unreliable engine, had a faster car, that's why Kimi looked better in many people's eyes. Renault could have built a better engine too, as they proved in China at the last race of the year, Alonso easily winning the race. But they just wanted to play safe after building an early advantage in the first part of the championship. They admitted they could have been faster (and in that case Alonso could have been dominant) but that could have meant reliability problems like Macca.
So I think the "Kimi was way better than FA in 2005" thing is overrated.

In 2006, I think Alonso drove better than MS. Schumacher was clearly past his prime, he made more mistakes than he used to, and lost crucial points when he finished behind Massa like in Istanbul. I think a Schumacher in his prime would have won that '06 title with that Ferrari. I'm not saying Alonso is better than Schumacher overall, but that 2006 title was fully deserved as well.

So here we are, he's a two-time WDC, a proven winner, who managed to score equal points to a team mate who many consider to be as good as Clark or Schumacher or Senna or whoever. He can overtake (even if his desperate attempts all go wrong this year), he's a good defender, he's good in the wet, he rarely makes race-ending mistakes.

He might be the best, he might be 5th best, I don't know. But I love watching him drive and his will to win, and F1 would be poorer without him.

that's funny, didn't Berger and Alesi have a hard time driving Michael's Benneton in 96? I seem to remember reading somewhere that Berger(?) found it undrivable the way MS had it set up (I could be wrong here). As for Salo, yeah, ok. If he thinks he can drive as fast as Michael in a Ferrari, I see nothing wrong with that statement. It's important to think you're the best and better/faster, etc.. If he thinks he's as complete a driver and has all the invariables Michael brings to the team-motivating people, reading a race, etc. then, IMO, I'm afraid he's been smoking crack.

With respect there doesn't appear to be a thread about whether or not Alonso has maintained his 'the best' status (if he ever was) despite being in a midfield car. It it possible to be considered the best without being able to win, is it possible to quantify it. If he's no longer the best, when did the changing of the guard take place, a year ago, during 2007, or at the start of 2008? Plenty to disguss rationally. Seems your the one bringing the bashing to the table.

If you base your driver judgments on career achievments then Alonso is the best driver and clearly. He has a long track record of success and performance unmatched by anyone on the grid so by that critera hes the best. Not having a competitive car this year doesnt damage that in the slightest because someone has to show a level of performance that equals or surpasses what Alonso has done and no one has, especially this year.

Kimi - Has finally won a wc but since joining Ferrari has only been slightly above average as a driver, struggling with felipe massa.

Hamilton - One great year but failed to do the job and win the WC and making hard work of it this year so he hasnt earnt the crown.

Kubica. - One lucky win and out pacing a journey man is not enough to qualify you for best driver status.

Alonso -Won two quality wc's against great opposition, and ended the most dominant era in the sports history, the youngest ever wc, double wc, within 2 points of equaling fangio as the only driver to ever win 3 straight wcs in different teams.

The answer is obvious isnt it.

Good post.

I would be concerned if he did NOT want to prove he was the best.

The best driver of the last 4 races was Schumacher, with the title closer, all else before was washed away

Monza
China
Japan
Brazil
Michael was faultness, at China he was miles faster on bridgestone tyres then anyone else, while Massa limped for a point in the rain, it's so stupid saying Schumacher was driving lesser then Alonso, infact as soon as Michael closed up on points, he was the won looking like winning every race, the engine blow up in Japan and qualifying machinery issues in Brazil was out of his hands, but with everything else, his driving was at best as it's ever been. Titles don't mean all, actual performances matter the most, Alonso was pretty quiet in these races, don't forget that. Infact given 2005 season, Ferrari had more of a struggle in the first half of the season, the tyres at Imola were shot, good in qualifying, but in the race not consistent, but Michael managed to outflank Alonso with some of his best inlaps that Pat Symonds described as fantastic, sure Massa had his turkey and Brazil moments, big deal, 2 races, but it was Michael who extracted the most from the tyres and did the better long season job, all the while dealing with retirement and pressures with this, considering he won both his home gps, and italian gps, not a bad way to go out, plus winning the race he announced his retirement on, this Michael still showed the driving genuises, and was pushing to the end, if we remember Ferrari's engine piston engine problems which effected the bahrain, sepang and albert park races, we can see ferrari was not the best car in all situations in some of the opening races especially, either having to work hard to get alot out of the tyres, or using lower engine power, renault on the otherhand no problems at all, much easier to gell on michelins and quick set up times, infact Renault didn't need to use practice sessions 1 much.

All credit for ALonso for making it a season to remmeber in pushing MS, and Renault had alot to do with that, it remains to be seen whether Alonso will be as good as he was in the renault with the michelin and opt suspension/mass damper package, but Michael in alot of races, was getting more out of the car then Massa, and don't forget it, and don't forget the last 4 races, anyone who thinked MS wasn't driving well in those races have got to look again, the ferrari brass had writ off the China win after qualifying, looking at the tyre situation, michelin still had a edge in those conditions, but look at Michael, qualified 6th, check the other bstone runners positions that saturday, then remmeber Michael's consistency in the race, I don't think just because Michael's engine let go in Japan near the end, and the odd car gltiched in brazil take anything away from his application on track those last races, he was driving as if they were his last races, and it showed.

Infact, if you were to pick out the best drives of 2006, I gotta say
Michael-Brazil 2006, for his charge through the field, put on a show
China 2006, for getting more and above the performance of the bridestones
Imola 2006, -again not letting tyre issues effect his ability to find speed to outflank Alonso
coming from a 2005 season which he couldn't defend his title, and helping ferrari turn around and win again, 2006 was a great effort, sure he wasn't perfect, was Alonso in 2007? but Michael's pluses had more signs of genuises and excellence in those races. Alonso drove like a champion, but he wasn't perfect either, at Indy he was horriable, Fisi had more pace them him, and at Hockenheim 2006, Fisi had to let him past again, Alonso can be slow when he can't figure out the car, yet people tend to overlook this matter, speed with Michael is hardley ever a issue, always getting the maximum out of the car, yeah he can make mistakes, but given the amount of detail you have to cover in a season, it's mission impossible to be best every session, every gp, too many variables, Alonso in 2007 proved thatr as well.


All in all the best retirement season a driver could wish for, going out on a high entertaining everyone at Brazil 2006, overtaking his successor Kimi, best overtaking of the year
best performances in the year-china 2006, imola 2006, overcoming tyre disadvantages
races of persistence after set backs, brazil 2006
monaco 2006-great charge from the pitlane to 5th, massa crashed in quali, schumacher may have made a foul in quali, but his race was excellent, even Berger said he was sensational..

To be the best, give the season it's moments, wow the crowd, Schumacher did that more. But I'm glad Renault were as good as they were in 2006, they did win the constructors, and started off better, it made MS and Ferrari push to give those races that michael exceled at to happen.

Without a rival, you can't prove everything, yence Alonso is a good rival, great competitor, but he wasn't better then MS lol

That's 4 races. As far as I know, the title is given for a whole year's performance. I could chose 4 consecutive races too, what about Barcelona, Monaco, Silverstone and Montreal?

At China, Alonso would have clearly won without the tyre issue. I wouldn't say he was 'quiet'. And why was he quiet in Japan? Or in Monza, where he was up to 3rd, starting from 10th?

And you shoudn't mention "engine blow ups" and "machinery issues" as a reason for MS losing the title. Just think about Hungary and Monza, who had machinery issues there?

I think he was the best on the grid in 2006 and in 2005 together with Raikkonen.

And, yes, that last 4 races talk Sean gave us is worthless.

Alonso could have been WDC last year if Hamilton hadn't been such an arse at Hungary. Alonso is brilliant. His brilliance was obvious to many even while he was in a Minardi. He's put in some storming performances this year too, so he's still brilliant.

The best of the current grid no question.

Since when was F1 ever about establishing the "best" driver?

You're looking for something you're never going to find, and definitely never be able to prove.

We criticise the press for treating us like retards and polarising everything, but it looks like we get what we deserve.

If want to establish over a given season which driver/car/team combination has won the most points under the circumstances and races they participated in, then F1 is for you. If you are trying to get a definitive "best" driver, or, car, or, team etc. forget it.

Time to get real about what "facts" F1 can give you.

Think otherwise and you end up with James Allen and Mark Blundell.

It certainly never was about rewarding the poor and mediocre.

That is well revealing Slate!

Now I understand -sort of- why you so despise Lewis Hamilton!

He was the best in 2006.

I think Alonso is the best all around driver in formula one today.
He is ....
1. Aggressive and fearless ( I can only think of Lewis ATM matching him on this virtue)

2. Super fast - he is proven it against this year with his outstanding qualifying performances by out qualifying Kimi in a Renault. (perhaps Kimi/Lewis are equally fast, hard to prove)

3. Very good in the wet..- Only Lewis comes to mind as equally good in the rain

4. Consistency... - as proven in 2005/2006, in a top car when fighting for the WDC you can expect an almost error-free season from Alonso.

5. Good with car Setup .. - I think this is backed up by the different teams/engineers he's raced for.

Maybe if asked the same question Alonso was asked about McLaren, Fisi may have answerd-

"Q: Have you ever asked for near equal treatment in any team?

A: People always talk about first driver, second driver and things like that. I wasn't asking to be the near equal driver. Never. I never asked that, in any team. But what I can't accept is being treated like the fourth or fifth driver, you know? At least I want to have the same opportunities as my team mate, and that didn't happen in all of 2006's championship. Or in 2005. When i did well my team mate spat the dummy out. So Sweaty beach invading Flav told me to back off...."

Maybe

It's obvious to anyone without some other agenda that if there is a best driver in F1, Alonso is one of the drivers who may be that. And that's been the case for a few years now.

As for him saying that he wants to prove that he's still the best, that suggests a degree of questioning which is quite different to the message which started this thread.

of course he's the best and hasn't got anything to prove, he's already proven all
astonishing performances in a minardi,

youngest driver ever to get a pole, a podium and a victory in his maiden season with renault

amazing performances again in a uncontrollable r24

2005 and 2006 all said

able to even a driver so-called to be one of the best drivers ever, supported by a poisoned and biased team

Although you can go too far the other way.

Alonso needed to completely dominate a rookie teammate last year to even have a chance to claim to be a top driver. The best? Uh, okay, whatever. FA seems more and more like JV to me. I can easily imagine JV saying around 1998 or 1999 that he needs a super result to prove he's still the best... Not that he said such a thing. I'm just saying that the claim is just as funny.

Besting a 7X WDC twice counts for nothing?

Like Rubens was the 2nd best driver on the grid in 2002 and 2004?

I dunno - in your book, matching a 2 x WDC, who is arguably "the best", in your rookie season seems to count for nothing.

To my mind, both count for a heck of a lot. Which is why Alonso has a damn good claim to be one of, if not the, best on the grid (and is perfectly entitled to make these statements IMO) and Hamilton also has a damn good claim to being one of the better drivers on the grid, although you seem to think that this season may prove he has "no place in motorsport" (to quote one of your more extreme odd pronouncements)

Err Slate,going by your logic..... Besting a 2X WDC (in the same car) who bested a 7X WDC means nothing too?

Schumacher was not hamstrung by Ferrari as Alonso was by Ron which renders your point meaningless. Hamilton's fans cling to this tie with Alonso as if it proves something positive for Hamilton when the opposite is actually true. What it proves is that even with 100% preferential treatment within his team Hamilton's best effort resulted in a tie with the disadvantaged Alonso. Nothing to crow about, shameful performance considering all the advantages Ham enjoyed.

PS: Logic is not your strong suite

I think I have to up my meds, cuz it just sounded like SG was giving MS a compliment. Criticizing Schumi every chance he gets only now to use Michael's amazing accomplishments for purely different reasons. Man, you make me laugh. Bonafide nutcase, I salute you.

11 june 2006 was not his maiden season with renault
conversely, on 30 september 2007 event lewis got the job done in his maiden season with mclaren and lewis was younger on this date than fernando was in 2006.

So when Alonso Gets beat fair and square it's because he was being held back??? **Cough** **Cough** Deporation **Cough** **Cough**

Lets not froget that in the Last race the FIA were in the Merc garage and they found no evidance of bias...

when has alonso been beaten fair and square?

But the FIA saw need, so why do you think that is because it was all fair and square at Mac.