Strewth, that description paints the picture vividly. And the fact that Middelburg escaped with "barely a scratch" is incredible.
IIRC Kenny had been on the bike since the Jarama GP, but Barry had only just got it, and spent the days before at the Harris, getting the chassis how he liked it? Didn't Fontan/Crosby have at least some practice outings on it as well? (Maybe not at Silverstone, but later in the year?)

maybe sometimes there is a need for health and safety!

I remember turning up on the saturday and how strange it seemed to see Barry's truck etc in the Paddock,was a bit eerie.....

did the British GPs at Silverstone always seem a better event than anything I ever got to see at Donington Park?

I reckon they both had a lot to offer, the key word being "had". The Silverstone we loved is a far cry from the crap they have now. Watching the SB races there on the box is painful.

fateful day at Silverstone in 1982. Plenty off what ifs...but Barry was trying to " sneak" extra time as he had so little time on the bike and the rest is history.
.

I had a note from Norman Brown's youngest sister Denise last week, and she said it was fine to post it up so you can read what she said, so here it is.

Quote:
Hi, I was browsing the web and came across your forum with some other members about greatest grand prix. I was touched to read how the accident at Stowe Corner in the 1983 GP at Silverstone left a mark on you guys. It was my brother Norman that was killed on the day and he is still sorely missed in our family. Thanks for thinking of him.

D

In what way Stu?
Me having never even been to Silverstone - do you mean layout or the over over-abundance of "safety" modifications, etc.
I was looking at some footage of old Aussie racetracks the other day (Surfers, Sandown, Oran Park -which hasn't changed much! & Warwick Farm) and noticed the incredible difference between the grass run-offs, closeness of spectators to the action & post & rail fences compared to some today's safer but sterilised facilities.
Did racetracks have more character then or is it just the fond memories that makes the era memorable?

If I can jump in here, having been to the new Silverstone recently, it does not flow like the old track, and the last chicane (Woodcote) is an abomination compared to the old Woodcote corner, it might be "safer" from high speed get offs, but there are so many highsides and T bones there now days.
Fast circuits nearly always led to close races, think of Hockenheim, Assen, and Silverstone all in the old configurations. :\

I really do not care for Silverstone much at all these days, having watched the "old Woodcote", how can you be thrilled by the course now?

Thanks for posting that up Mr Fu. If it´s any consolation to Denise, Norman and others like him, who died doing what they loved, will always be remembered by us old boys who were lucky enough to have either seen them in action, or simply to have admired them from afar.

No I was there as a spectator my off was exactly same session a year later and to me the lessojn of no/ few marshalls had not been learned

my comparison was really meant to be between the actual bike GP event not just the track modifications made to "castrate" what was the fastest of nearly all the circuits.

I have never got the same buzz at Donington,maybe the whole GP scene had started the slide towards commercialism?

If you will forgive the self-indulgence I will repost something I wrote almost four years ago on the "old" thread about Patrick ( and Barry.....) on the occasion of a "WWW" query :


........Yes it is Patrick Igoa , and the reason I mentioned Hervé Moineau or Christian Léon, is that like those two riders, Patrick made a career in Endurance racing whereas his natural abilities should have made him a real Grand Prix great ...

I took this picture of Patrick at the Le Mans Bugatti circuit, while he was competing in the first round of the 1980 French 250 national championship. He made the grade two years later, when he embarked for his first international season. He stunned the Continental Circus paddock when he scored the 250 pole position for his first ever Grand Prix, at Nogaro, France, then won the Hockenheim european championship race in such convincing fashion that Barry Sheene, who was there as a guest star rider for the 500 race, invited him in his caravan and shared a bottle of german white wine with him . Ironically enough, he was a few months later indirectly the cause of Barry's terrible 1982 accident, when he tangled with a 125 during that infamous Silverstone free practice session before the British Grand Prix. He fell off and his 250TZ was laying stranded in the middle of the track, when Sheene and Jack Middleburg arrived at full speed and crashed heavily into the fallen bike…..

A few weeks later, I coincidentally made his acquaintance. I was on holidays at my in-laws near Biarritz, and my father-in-law, who was director of the local public transport , was paging through a bike magazine I had brought when he said : " hey, that's Igoa's son !!!" It turned out that Patrick's father was a bus driver in the transport company . Thrilled at the prospect of meeting a GP rider, I promptly called his home, talked to Patrick , said I'd like to meet him and spent a fascinating afternoon and evening , working with him on his bike and listening to his stories…..he still had in his workshop that empty bottle of german white wine, signed by Barry….and he told me had spoken to him on the phone regularily since the accident

A few weeks later, he was called by Serge Rosset and offered a ride for the Bol d'Or on a works Kawasaki. That was the breakthrough of his career, since he promptly won the race , was drafted in the works Kawasaki team for the next season, and then signed with Honda for whom he scored three successive World Endurance Championships , in 1984, 1985 and 1986.

But although Endurance racing had brought him fame and fortune ( well, sort of….) he was still frustrated not to have fulfilled his road racing ambitions, so in 1987 he signed for the french Sonauto Yamaha importer to drive a works 250 for the full GP season. Alas, that year the V-Twin Yamaha was far behind the Honda's , and despite showing some speed and promise , Patrick fell off and hurt himself too often while trying to make up for his machine's deficiencies….

Although the plan was originally to run him for two seasons in 250, the team was confronted with a difficult choice at the end of the 1987 season , since another french rider, a very young Jean Philippe Ruggia, had been doing marvels on his private production TZ , and in fear of losing him to Honda, Sonauto signed him for the works 250 , and "offered" Patrick a 500 ride, on the one-year-old Yamaha that Christian Sarron had used in 1987 . This original "promotion" turned out to be a poisoned gift, since the 1987 model had not been a specifically good one , and could not at all compete with the 1988 machinery of Lawson, Rayney or Sarron, nor with Wayne Gardner's Honda or Kevin Schwantz's Suzuki .

So at the end of 1988 , Patrick was without a GP ride, and dabbled a few more years in Endurance and Superbikes before calling it a day and retiring to a Kawasaki dealership in Bayonne…..A real waste of a great talent . When I once visited him in his shop, I felt that disregarding the numerous Bol d'Or's and Endurance trophies displayed there, he was still bitter about not having shown what he was really worth in the GP field….

Patrick's gallery on Manfred Mothe's great site

http://www.highsider.com/textlager/france_textlager/Igoa.htm

What a great story Philippe , it's always good to hear what retired riders are doing

Phil, your inbox is bursting.

What again give me a mo

Try that Russ nothing naughty chaps

Ditto

Are you sure your not getting confused with sweden . They changed overnight in about 72 ?

Could be getting old I guess mate but did'nt love all the old circuits ( original very long Spa, Nurbergring, A1 Ring etc).

It was just that Siverstone was about slipstreaming, fast corners and a chance to make up a little ground if you were on a private bike. Like Phillip Island in some ways. Traditional. Now Silverstone is a sterile F1 track.

A few years back I was with Suzuki when we racing at the A1 Ring ( Austria) and stayed on for an xtra day testing. Had the time to go round the old track and climb the decaying grandstands..great stuff.

Trouble with Silverstone is they hardly ever use the full GP circuit, apart from WSB a few years ago; they use the 'National' circuit for most things, and anyway both versions use the twiddles before Woodcote. That chicane in the pit entry road is a bad joke; I can't believe they can't sort out the safety aspect and use the normal track there, despite the lack of runoff.

If the 'Historic' version of Silverstone were licensed for bikes, they'd be able to use a faster version of Club and the original Abbey.............


Paul M

should be a great weekend

Yes Nige , wish I was there :\ I would take a pic of Dave Croxford on the first lap if I were you

I was thinking that the poster was not right with date of 1976, till I checked my pics, Dave Croxford crashed out on the first lap in the pile up at Brands in its debut in 1975.
Dave Croxford 1975 Norton Cosworth Challenge (practice!)

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikrepics.
It was indeed used in 1976, here is Dave again at Brands Trans Trophy meeting, I dont think he rode it for the whole of the season though? but I could be wrong?

Photo copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

Well yes , Dave Croxford , in spite of my comments I did rate him highly . Allways a trier and unlike some of his rivals IMHO a racer and a character to boot --unusual for a 'works' rider even in those days impossible now it seems

Great fun to watch and also quick with a witty comment or two. Always went really well at Brands. I remember him going round the outside of the field a few times round Clearways.

David

We have had this guy before I think Stefan? sadly I have forgotten his name!!

Hans (?) Muller ??

(On the tank !!)

Went to a 60th birthday party the other night Who's these 2 old boys ??

How a factory Norton rider was treated in 1975, a luxury van was provided for his comfort!! Norton certainly spoiled their riders back then!!

Photo Copyrighted to Graham Etheridge, racebikepics.

I know the one on the right, is the one on the left his brother maybe? if not little clue please!!

That will be Rob and Bill Marks Then ;)

Edit: got beeten by uncle Fu again! :\

You only know 'cause I told you where I was going Mr Fu and yes

And I told you also

Not difficult when you know the answers you 2

I thought it was a bit easy!!

No No... they haven't changed at all in twenty odd years.....much ;)

Ok smart-arses who's this with Bill --go on impress me

Groucho?

errrrrrrrrrrrrr no ( I hope he isn't lurking in the wings !!!! )

Clue please?

Aaah, that's how you lot get all the answers correctly, it's a conspiracy

What , after just over 10 minutes

You tell Mr Fu aka Busterblood Vessell that

That's what I said 1967 though ..I think. Sort of had to be overnight really......

Annoying thing is I think I recognise him!! but cant put a name to his "boat race"

Perfectly put. Heroes one and all.

110%

It is just a bloke who was walking past ?

Is it Wallace?
Grommitt just out of shot?

Could have been , but not this time Russ

But a little snippet for you -- he and his brother were both involved in the sport .

Jeff or Murray ?