So, after the palava in the stewards room last night, a storm is brewing over the Formula One circus - in more ways than one.

Below are the four (yes, four!) championship tables.

Firstly, is what the table currently looks with Massa as the "winner" of the Belgium Grand Prix:
1) Hamilton - 76pts
2) Massa - 74pts
3) Kubica - 58pts
4) Räikkönen - 57pts
5) Heidfeld - 49pts
6) Kovalainen - 43pts

*IF* Hamilton is reinstated as winner, the table will look like:
1) Hamilton - 80pts
2) Massa - 72pts
3) Kubica - 58pts
4) Räikkönen - 57pts
5) Heidfeld - 47pts
6) Kovalainen - 43pts

The current Constructors' Championship table looks like:
1) Ferrari - 131pts
2) McLaren - 119pts
3) BMW - 107pts
4) Toyota - 41pts
5) Renault - 36pts
6) Red Bull - 25pts

*IF* Hamilton is reinstated as winner, the table will look like:
1) Ferrari - 129pts
2) McLaren - 123pts
3) BMW - 105pts
4) Toyota - 41pts
5) Renault - 36pts
6) Red Bull - 25pts

I think it's safe to say that both championships are now a two horse race. It seems like this will be decided in the International Court of Appeal (sadly). The weather could become a key factor, with low air pressure moving in and rain an outside possibilty. At this early stage, the weather sites are saying:

Weather Underground: Friday (20%), Saturday (None), Sunday (None).
Weather.com: Friday (50%), Saturday (30%), Sunday (30%).
MSN.com: Friday (65%), Saturday (95%), Sunday (95%).

IF it does rain for the race, PLEASE stewards DO NOT mess with the results.

Discuss.

I'm expecting an easy McLaren 1-2. It would also be nice to see a Toyota driver on the podium (either one).

Looking at your table, I think it's clear Heikki Kovalainen really needs to lift his game.

A nice guy he may be, but he's been under-performing all year.

He's stood on the podium twice this season but has barely been criticised.

Nick Heidfeld has now been on there four times and he's supposed to be having a dreadful season.

I'm really quite surprised McLaren wanted to resign Kovalianen so soon. Surely there are better options available.

I'm expecting Hamilton will somehow, some way be given a 10-place grid penalty.

Old saying: "Where there's a will, there's a way"...

Yep.

I was just going to say this, I can't see McLaren being a factor in the WCC at all unless Heikki suddenly stops throwing so many points away.

As for Monza, I'm not sure I buy Domenicali's statements that McLaren are favourites there. Yes I'd expect them to go well with the chicanes/stop-and-go/long straights thing, but the Ferrari engines are clearly the quickest right now and this is an engines track.

So I guess McLaren and Ferrari pretty much dead even, BMW on a good weekend (certainly quicker than in Spa), Toro Rosso on pair with Renault and Toyota, with Red Bull slightly behind.

I think the thread was created with intention to talk about coming race and not talking about yesterday's situation. There are plenty of threads about stewards' decision so let's stick to Italian GP here.

There's a big difference in weather forecast. If it rains whatever the tire compounds are McLaren is the best position to win the race with their mighty traction in wet. If it stays dry I hope Ferrari will be able to challenge McLaren - we want a good fight for the win without stewards' involvement.

Kovalainen did make it tough for himself in the Spa race with his start and crashing into Webber but to give him his dues he showed most pace he has shown since Silverstone qualifying. I'm confident that he will be starting to give at the least the slower of the Ferrari driver on a given weekend a hard time and help McLaren in their bid in the CC.

I think Toro Rosso and Ferrari will be strong given their engines.

Italy will be a lot closer than people think IMO.

It will be a LH/KR fight, I don't see FM being able to keep up with them.

Don't expect Kovalianen to finish second he has never done better than third on merit and even then that was helped by Massa's retirement.
He has only achieved one podium and lucked into a victory.
His average finish position is 5.9, makes you wonder why his contract was extended...

That will be good race for Heidfeld, and probably bad for Kubica who has now number 2 driver status in BMW F1 Team

Has the FIA determined the finishing results for Monza yet? I'd like to know in advance. Thanks.

I see contact between Hamilton and KR resulting either in both retiring on the spot or a severe penalty for the Mclaren pilot.

Massa to lead home a distant Kovalainen with Alonso getting that dreamt of podium and a chorus of boos.

I wouldn't mind that

But a chorus of boos? Do you read the comments on Gazzetta dello Sport?

Explain please

Taking this argument from one thread to another doesn't make it any more correct or even logical.

As discussed in the BMW 2008 thread, why, oh why, would BMW given inferior treatment to Robert Kubica.

It is the most lame conspiricy theory of the year.

Kubica was done over by the far more experienced Heidfeld in wet conditions, just as he was at Silverstone.

Why try and argue that there are dark forces suddenly at work?

A good winner needs to also be a good loser chap.

I'd call them equal number 1. Since WHEN does Heidfeld have #1 status?



Unlikely.

I would like to make a prophesy.
LEWIS HAMILTON WON`T SEE THE CHECKERED FLAG IN MONZA.

By comments made to Gazzetta's Formula1 news section, it looks like there are many tifosi wanting him. And it's not propaganda, I usually read their news (they don't update that much),just press CTRL+F and write Alonso...

"Quindi ben venga un nuovo ciclo con Alonso in Rosso"

"e con questo e ora di portare dentro Alonso e madare via Kimi"

"è giunta l'ora di ingaggiare fernando alonso...anche se oggi kimi e massa hanno fatto il meglio possibile"

"I migliori piloti in Ferrari? non mi fa ridere. Montezemolo e risveglio tifosis. Fernando Alonso 2009. Ma anche se Ross Brawn che è stato in Ferrari, ha dichiarato: Alonso effettiva's che fa la differenza in F1."

"Raikkonen è un pilota mediocre che ha vinto un mondiale regalatogli da Alonso e dallo scandalo della spy story"

"Certo è che Alonso non mi sta simpatico ma obiettivamente se avesse avuto lo spagnolo la macchina che si ritrova lui sarebbe nettamente in testa al mondiale!"

"Basta ricorsi, comprate un pilota capace (magari Alonso)! Se il mondiale lo vince Massa è uno schifo"

"alla Ferrari devono prendere atto di avere 2 buoni piloti e non due campioni...rifetti Montezemolo...Alonso è lì ...disponibile... fino a quando???!!!!"

"Secondo me il piu bravo in F1 è Alonso, seguito da Hamilton"

And lots more italians want Alonso in Ferrari, just check the comments under the news in http://www.gazzetta.it/Motori/Formula1/

So yeah, I don't think he'd get booed.

will hamilton be on a mission, and will he keep it together?

To be honest, is it worth watching?

I hope so I just bought tickets to the race today.
This could be a deciding one, Kimi with a score to settle, Massa with the chance to make it all equal in the standings and thousands of Ferrari fans fanatically cheering their team before it leaves Europe, hopefully leading both WDC and WCC.

It's gonna be a fun weekend

Beating Ferrari on home soil will surely make me a happy fan. But will McLaren be allowed to, or will they be shafted yet again?
I hope the anger from the Spa debacle can be turned into extra motivation for a good result from McLaren.

Performance-wise McLaren should be right up there.

It's not a matter of inferior treatment, it's focus shift. That happens sometimes but rarely towards the under performing driver. No conspiracy theories, simple driver management.

I don't think Kubica is in for a bad race. He treats Monza like a home track, likes it and knows it by heart. And Heidfeld had good results there last week so I'm hoping for double digit scoring for the team.



Come on. I agree in Silverstone Heidfeld performed better in wet conditions but you can't honestly say Spa was an analogous situation.

Kovalainen will be strong in qualifying at least.

It could well be possible to give the mclaren pilot a 10 place grid penalty because of blocking in qualifying alla massa 2006. Then hell start between dc the bone breaker and evil nakajima kazukizasan who will sandwich the mclaren driver at variante ascari resulting in a dnf for all 3. Do i hear eureka from whitings room?

I do agree that unless it rains, itl be one helluva boring race. Having said that i cant even remember the last time i watched a race live. Its too predictable. I like the compilation in the evening more.

I would argue that Kubica did not have time to change for wet tires like Nick did, thefore the last two rain laps of these two cannot really be compared.
I would say during the race they were neck to neck and Kubica was unlucky there with the pitstop and Nick with the start..

McLaren will be the car to beat at Monza....wouldn't be surprised McLaren 1-2. I don't think ferrari solved their kurb issues enough to challenge mclaren for win.

I expect a very close race between Ferrari and McLaren.

Last year Kimi went for a one stop strategy and qualified 5th. I don't see him trying it again because his qualifying has suffered recently and the huge risk of getting bad starts and stuck behind slower cars, which has already happened as well.

So I expect all of them to go light for pole, with the weather sorting things out.

Until the drivers leave the podium, after which it will become a Ferrari 2-3 with Hamilton disqualified for beating the Ferraris on home soil........................

Dry race - Lewis leading home a McLaren 1-2.
Wet race - Lewis demolishing opposition with Kova nowhere. Ferrari/BMW/Alonso covering 2nd through 6-7-8..
either way no scandal and no booing. (If they didn't boo last year after all that happened...)

Mark my words!

Italian Grand Prix? I expect a Ferrari win. Regardless of who crosses the line first.

I went last year and am going again. Ferrari were nailed last year, McLaren took a one two but still it was like a carnival all weekend. A great race to get to.

Potmotr,

Now I don't believe that there is a conspiracy to make Kubica slower by messing up his pit stops on purpose. Those things happen. However, as a matter of fact, Nick has had supperior treatment by the team over Kubica. This is a fact. They have put resources into specifically helping Nick with his car over the last 3-4 months. In the last 6 testing sessions, they dedicated 3 strickly to helping Nick's issues the first week, and the second week of testing they had Nick for 2 out of the 3 days. That is 5 out of the last 6 testing days alone for Nick. There obviously was a lot of resources that went in behind the scenese to work on the problem as well.....and all this was at a time when Kubica was in contention for the WDC, yet there we no specific work to make his car faster. Would you not classify that as inferior treatment to Kubica???

Your second quote about Kubica being done over by Heidfeld in the wet at Spa is laughable, and really take away your credibility. I assume you are aware that Heidfeld took a big gamble, hero or zero, as he put it (one which Kubica could not because he would have had to wait behind Nick for tires) and changed to intermeidate tires? This allowed him to be 20 seconds per lap faster than the rest of the field, except for Alonso? You think it is fair to compare drivers in the wet when one is on rain tires and the other on dry tires????

Think before you post such crap.

Mclaren should ride better over the kerbs and harder tyres wont hurt either. Only tech problem can take victory from Mclaren, something like gearbox that went out of action in Heikki's car just before the end.

Welcome to my ignore list.

Can I also be on it?

Who is willing to take a bet?

I predict that one or both of the Ferrari drivers will cut one of the chicanes in Monza and will gain an advantage in the process of doing so.

Neither will get a penalty.

You heard it here first ...

so bitter! get over it!

I'm not betting against that.

I think the Ferrari drivers will have fallen out by then, after Kimi's pushing Felipe onto the grass at 320 kph has sunk in, and Kimi has flatly refused to support Felipe for the wdc.

I wouldn't rule out a coming together, in fact.

and Monaco?

where Heidfeld was brutally assualted by Alonso (no punishment, btw) wrecking his car in the process.

I don't care who win. It doesn't matter. This is not a sport....the only thing is i have been stupid enough to still have hope that it is. I have come to my senses. This season is already tainted. Drivers are not supposed to race ferari, that is the unwritten rule. I don't even know why they are bothering with their overtaking commitees. They can as well put ferari in a permanent one two and for the other drivers put their names in a hat and draw straws. I don't give a damn.

Why?
Alonso was quicker?

Kovalainen was quicker than Webber at Spa. Didn't save him from punishment. See, we are 'just' asking for consistency, nothing more.

Heidfeld was only in front cos of Kubica slooooow pit stop.

Too bad we can't use last year's race as a small reference point because of what happened. Kimi on a one-stopper and Felipe's broken suspension.

Last year's Q3 and pitstops.

1. FA, 1st stop after 20 laps, second stop after 43 laps.
2. LH +0,037, 1st stop after 18 laps, second stop after 40 lap.
3. FM +0,552, only one stop on lap 9 and DNF.
5. KR +1,186, only stop after lap 25.

Probable conclusion. Felipe was quicker in Q1 and Q2 than Kimi so he was lighter and on a two-stopper. My guess is he was on a similar fuel load to FA. Judging by that it's easy to say that McLaren had a huge advantage here last year. We know why because of the comments made during the weekend. Kimi finished 3rd 27 seconds behind FA. Comparing Montreal last year to Montreal this year it's safe to say Monza will be much closer this year. Just as Spa it's going to depend on the weather. If it's similar to Spa it's going to be close. Drizzle and McLaren will have the edge. Rain and it's a lottery with SC periods etc. The only difference will be Felipe with a new engine and Lewis with an old one (if he doesn't use his joker). Kimi will have a new one as well. Ferrari do have a straight line speed advantage compared to last year. The car behaves better over curbs. But harder tyres will be used.

My race prediction.
Massa takes pole from Lewis by 0.05s. Kimi 3rd, Trulli 4th, Kovi 5th, Seb B 6th, Seb V 7th, etc etc.
The Toros are carrying same straight line speed as Ferrari; nice shiny latest spec Ferrari engines?

Race start.
Massa bottles it, Lewis gets a blinder as does Kimi & Seb B. Seb V takes Kovi out - jumped the lights and drove straight into the back of the McLaren. One down.
Into Rettifilo Kimi monsters Lewis, who backs out & lets the Ice Man take the lead.
Massa goes for an outside move on Trulli, who in turn is defending from the awesome new-found speed of Seb B.
Massa has no choice...he cuts Rettifilo. In front of Seb & Trulli. He backs off, they go past.
[Trulli's radio - "Jarno......the plan, the plan" - JT's new race engineer sounds uncannily like Mr Whiting]
Jarno "mistakes" the brake pedal for the accelerator; Massa goes past.
Round Curva Grande and Seb has a moment, mainly caused by excessive wiggling of the steering. Massa goes through. Seb picks up. The man in Red beside the marshalls gives Seb a thumbs up.
Meanwhile Lewis got a tow from Kimi and shapes up for a pass at Variante della Roggia. Yet again Kimi does a bizarre interpretation of the one move rule, but yet again Lewis outbrakes him and seems to fly round the chicane. Kimi meanwhile literally does fly...straight over the kerbs and into Lewis.
Both out.
Massa cruises past, Seb as rear gunner.
The crowd creams themselves.
Ron has a heart attack in the pit lane; the medical car is called but stops too late & runs over him. It would appear a "Mickey Shoemaker" is the new med car driver; sounds...strangely...familiar...
The safety car is called out, and continues to circulate until the chequered flag drops.
Massa masters Monza!!!
A subsequent FIA meeting finds Lewis guilty of trying to overtake a Ferrari and is docked 10 grid places for all the remaining races.