I agree totally. Some Run-off areas like that in Spa don't penalise enough those that run off. For example the first chicane in Monza had pins that prevented just what Hamilton did* in Spa.


Not is fault it is the way it is.

You are all a bunch of girlies. Place some elite snipers around the track, I say. First offence, punctured tire by high velocity bullet. Second offence, punctured helmet.

I like the proposed speed bumps, but I'm afraid we're headed for even more tarmac. I'm sure lots of viewers thought the Ham - Kimi display was just "good, exciting racing" instead of sloppy driving.

Considering the circumstances, it was great driving. The problem is; having tarmac run-offs everywhere affects racing. When you KNOW going off rarely leads to DNF; push harder...risk more...and inevitably end up making more mistakes.

Personally I think having proper run-offs (whether it´s sand traps, speed bumps, etc) would produce more exciting racing. Yeah Kimi and Lewis would have to be more careful, but we´d know the cost of errors. That would make those "on the verge of losing it" moments special, and perhaps increase the gaps between risk-takers and those who play it safe.

There would be more to gain + more to lose. And no need to "give the advantage back".

you can place cones and leave an exit route without cones and penalize a driver if he hits a cone.

That could work, finding the right height will be difficult though, especially after such a long straight. They'll want to avoid the risk of the bumps launching an out of control car off the ground.

Some sort of surface which bogs the cars speed down but then allows it to continue. Perhaps a very thin sand trap.

Ditch with crocodiles

Old school grass is the best, they don't need millions od € to spend on the alternatives. And sack Tilke, just look at the Turkey run off areas

Strap down members of the FIA. Then they would have a use.

The world has long wanted a Max Mosley curb.

'Okay Hermann, we've got a plot of land in the middle of nowhere, no trees, towns, rivers, anything in sight. How big do you want the runoff areas to be?'

'Make them really small so that when someone gets hurt I'll be held responsible for negligence.'

and how good is wet grass at slowing a fast moving car?

and having a raised track is bad too, as the car will be launched into the air, not slowing it down, and if the car is backwards they probably generate lift... which misses the point of the runoff area... and it greatly increases the chance of injurey to riders/drivers and cars/bikes

Just like in Mario Kart.
The FIA need to ask Nintendo for advice.

Max mosleys blood would be nice and sticky.

Hahaha.
Ah, a true classic of the great days.
I never met anyone who could beat me at it, but I haven't also played in way over a decade.

Your sarcasm sucks.

Sand, gravell, grass... all good for run off area, not only tarmac

Spike Strips like on police camera action.

Nice to meet you too.



But all three have been proven to be inadequate and even dangerous as surfaces for runoff. Grass runoffs cause accidents like Diniz's at the Nurburgring, which with the HANS device would've been fatal. Gravel launches cars - it would only be a matter of time before you see a high-speed impact with a driver's head with a wall, a la Greg Moore at Fontana. Zonta's accident the year before was pretty close.

You can't simply unlearn such fundamental advances in technology, any more than you could remove all the aerodynamics from Formula One, no matter how much the racing/romance of the sport would benefit.

This would be the ideal solution

"The track is known for its distinctive black and blue runoff areas known as the Blue Zone, which is used instead of gravel traps of other circuits, the runoff surface consists of a mixture of asphalt and tungsten.[1] Should that not prevent the car from stopping, there is the Red Zone, a more abrasive run off area, which would require a car to return to the pits for a new tyre. Also, rather than a tyre barrier, a Tecpro barrier"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circuit_Paul_Ricard

Make them high, great incentive not to lose control.

Astroturf run-off areas.

Tarmac is the best runoff surface - cars slow fastest, don't flip or get launched, don't drag rubbish onto the track, and stay in the race so we can watch them racing. It's safer and better than any other surface. The crash structures in the cars all depend on the car staying upright, and if not then the roll hoop should not sink into a soft surface.

There's no general problem with a car taking the long, dirty way round an outside runoff, Pouhon in the wet is very much the exception. Normally it's a lot slower.

All it needs is an automatic, consistent and safe deterrent to cutting chicanes. They already have speed and timing transponders in the tracks, it's a mature existing technology. The cars already have transponders, the SECU and speed limiting. Bring the two together, make the chicane shortcuts physically safe but trip the speed limiter for n seconds = all boxes ticked.

Safe, effective, and no stewards required .

Well as I see it I would consider the following four criteria as necessary for obvious reasons, which I will state anyway:

Because presumably the areas of tarmac on each of the courses are there for a reason, and because different types of racing take place there:

1) The solution should be temporary and fairly quick and easy to apply/remove

Because race cars/drivers will always stretch the boundaries of what constitutes a "track," and this is an exciting and positive thing:

2) Running over the runoff area should not damage the car, though perhaps causing temporary changes to the grip (ie picking up debris on the hot tyres) is OK.

Because safety is paramount:

3) The solution should be no less safe than plain tarmac.

The first criterion limits us to some kind of coating for the surface. For example, paint or simply scattering a thin layer of particles. Carpeting such as Astroturf or even shag have been mentioned.

Sticky paint--I like it. Perhaps can be removed via power washing.
Particles--is there a type of particle that will slow the car at least as well as plain tarmac?
Water--simply watering the runoffs would be fun, but dangerous.

I think application of a layer of some kind is the way to go:
Astroturf--slipperier than tarmac.
How about some type of plastic or rubber sheeting that has drastically different grip characteristics, perhaps in a pattern such that it varies so much that running on it is never better? For example, sheets of colored rubber in a checkerboard pattern to the sponsor's specs but laid with the grain facing at right angles, thus making a car impossible to control while driving on it, yet provides at least as much grip as tarmac to a car with it's brakes locked up?

People have mentioned the gridded rubber flooring seen at gyms and playgrounds--it's obviously quite durable, fairly thin, comes in many colors, and is easily installed. Simply have Bridgestone cook something up and have it done up in sponsor's logos for the race. Presumably the increased advertising space would defray the cost.

Imagine during the race the commentators say "..and Hamilton's run wide right over the Kronenbourg/ING logo!"

Just make it some kind of soft, grippy rubber stuff that increases traction at the cost of rolling resistance (the cars kind of sink into it a bit).

It's a no-brainer, which means we will never, ever see it in F1.

I think they should teather small cute animals to the chicane run off areas...Little fluffy bunny rabbits, hamsters, chicks, baby parrots etc

Maybe the best solution is a set of simple, clear rules, gathered in a single document and made public to everyone. So that a driver in the heat of the battle, the race director and other officials, as well as the viewer in front of the TV or at the track all know what's going on. And enforcing them via clear cut penalties so everyone knows what to expect.

Just one of the strange things about the current 'rule' is that there's no penalty for gaining an advantage retaining a position by cutting the chicane. Or gaining time but not position, unless they do it repeatedly. There's only a penalty for overtaking.

But we'll have the same problem over and over again. No set of rules is going to account for every possible scenario. Was Ham forced to cut the chicane 'cause Kimi pushed him or because he wanted such advantage? Don't want to drag that debate, just pointing that leaving the decission in the hands of the stewards is going to make lots of people unhappy lots of times.

It's better to have something, whatever, that simply makes it physically impossible for a car to go faster off track. I don't car if it's a DNF, slows it, forces a pitstop or whatever, but drivers must know that going off track for whatever reason is going to cost them time. With video and telemetry it's much easier to see if a driver pushed another out of the track or not, that is the only scenario where stewards should be involved. But as a general rule, I say slow'em all and let Whiting sort'em out later.

Asphalt ridges. They should be constructed so no car goes airborne while "truly" losing control.

I think the wheel alignment of your car is a little dodgy...

The Bargeboard Is about to fall off too, you wont get a penalty though (its' a red car) LOL

He's got two sets of tyres on the back, surely thats a 25s penalty?

Hey I just thought of something--you know those big plastic barrels full of water? How about a bunch of little ones, or even soda cans?

Oh WAIT I just thought of something so simple, so sublime...how about a simple line of traffic cones delineating what is "track" and what is not?

I thought that's what the white lines are for?

How about 10m of artificial grass next to the track then some tarmac after that, and some plastic marker posts on the chicanes that would break a front wing if the driver was cuting the corner.

The white lines don't discourage enough. Please see sig.

Cellular Grass (grass-crete) but with fairly dense tall grass...even surface so the car won't flip upon hitting it, or dig in...but enough friction that it slows you down. Attractive too...agreed that the asphalt should go....

Traffic cones are fine, until some car pushes them away, and then someone else pushes them even further away, and then, see your sig.

till they get trapped under the car and act as skates...

grasscrete might be horrorific for riders, kinda like a huge cheese grater :\

Oh, who cares about motorcycles?

You're right though...perhaps not the best idea for multi-discipline race tracks

I still like my cotton candy idea tho it looks like I'm the only one who does




How about quicksand?

it would be horrific to get anything out of there, havent u guys ever watched bear grylls or ray mears?

I just saw Fisichella missing the second chicane at Monza and he had to driver over a couple of those speed bumps. But it didn't really slow him down.

Use the red high abrasion strips. If a car is spinning out of control it'll help to scrub speed off, and if a driver runs off it will take a lot out of his tyres. Should form a suitable deterrent.

Frankly I think it is perfect.

Hopefully somebody can clear up a point of confusion for me here. If a tyre is going sideways, or locked up over these 'high abrasion' sections then yes, I would imagine it would scrub speed off and damage the tyre, at the very least putting a much more serious flat-spot in it than normal tarmac would do.

However, surely a car under full control - as we saw last Sunday - is simply going to roll right over it, as all it would be then is an extra grippy section of run-off. As such there would be negligible retardation and negligible tyre damage.

I must be missing something as lots of you seem to be convinced this is the way to go, but I'm still unsure. Admittedly I'm not fully familiar with the HTTT run-offs, but I can't see how it is going to punish somebody driving over a run-off to gain advantage while in full control. To me the tyre would simply roll over it.

The foam thingies like at Monza, while keeping tarmac run-offs, seem to create a decent psychological barrier.. with the added benefit of providing additional advertising space.

Would be a decent attempt at solving the problem, doesn't cost much either.. so I would go with that.

Yeah but the drivers know what pingu666 so there won't be nearly as many offs in the first place.

During safety car periods, the cones are replaced by stewards.

If a driver really wants to play that game, well, then go ahead. It'll be part of "racecraft."

Get rid of the chicanes?