I was just thinking and I couldn't find a single FIA punishment against Ferrari... or I have a very biased memory. Can we please list the cases of Ferrari being handed punishments. The only one coming to mind is that MS points were deleted in 97, but that was the driver in question....

Anything against Ferrari?

Irvine was DQd from the Malaysian GP for having illegal bodywork (a bargeboard). It was overturned on appeal on the basis that "it wasn't deliberate" which is good enough to let Ferrari off apparently.

Do you mean ontrack or post race?

Schumacher got a grid penalty several years ago and Massa was black flagged last year.

no tyre changes in 05. that was punishment for being successful

Rascasse.

Going back through the years there are quite a few instances of the team getting in trouble for various misdemeanours. And the only reason it hasn't happened more times is because the team have not done anything wrong.

Schumacher got a grid penalty in Monaco '06 iirc.

Unless that was the grid penalty you are referring to karlth?

Considering that Bridgestone had the more durable tire in 04 it can hardly be called punishment, but that is for another thread.

Yes you have a biased memory.

No wasn't there another penalty in 06? A race when both Alonso and Schumacher were penalized?

Just off the top of my head:

Felipe Massa Black flagged in Canada 2007 for not spotting red light at end of pitlane.
Michael Schumacher sent to back of grid at Monaco for Rascasse in 2006.
$1 million fine for Austria 2002 - bring sport into disrepute.
Grid Penalty for Michael Schumacher in 2006 (can't remember the race) but where in practice or qualy he overtook Alonso going into a corner where flags were being waved.

Villeneuve was DQd from Long Beach in 1982 for having a tricksy rear wing. Harsh, it was a clever rule interpretation, but Ferrari were a competitor to Renault, and Balestre was in charge, so...

schumacher on monaco 06...
but the problem are only one: ecclestone want/must to do money, and he want/must keep open the championship and so he and max penalised lewis...
i'm sure massa has been on top, hamilton's overtakes would be regular...

That is the one. Can't remember the race either.

Hungary.


Alonso brake tested somebody in practice, then got Schumacher to overtake him under red flags by driving backwards, or something like that.

Pretty impressive really, they weren't considered competent enough to warrant punishment. Is Ferrari the only team to be offered immunity on the grounds of incompetence? Perhaps it's a defence Michelin could have tried?

It was a clever reading of the rules, but at the same blatantly breaking them even if the performance benefit was negligible!

That would be Hungary, I think.

It worked for Benetton in 1994 - where the incompetence/enterprising nature of a junior employee allowed the team to escape punishment for setting fire to the Paddock Club at Hockenheim.

...and, while not exactly being "penalties" stricto sensu, I would submit that the flexy front wing in 2006 and the flexy undertrays in 2007 were banned by FIA (technically, also a penalty) although the devices did pass the formal regulation checks in place.

Weren't the flexi floor rules changed (or modified) after Melbourne 2007?

But this is negligible; the Fia clearly is on a crusade against Ron Dennis and McLaren.

Banned when McLaren asked if it could use them like Ferrari were...

Not exactly a penalty but there was the tyre debacle at Fuji in 2007, where the FIA's email to Ferrari didn't arrive, the team were then forced to repit under threat of being black flagged for the wet tyres instead of the intermediates.

It was a non issue I think because they had to pit anyway due to the conditions. It was a strategic blunder from the team to start on intermediates.

Oh, and there's also the tyre warmer box thing that Ferrari squeezed between the regulation letters only to be banned later.

In the last two seasons alone:

Canada 07 (massa black flagged for ignoring red light)
Fuji 07 (penalised for not obeying direction to start on monsoon tyres, despite not even being made aware of it)
Monaco 08 (raikkonen didn't have tyres fitted in time for the start of the race by a handful of seconds)
Valencia 08 (fined for unsafe release)

And on the other side of the pits:

Spa was the second race weekend this year where both McLaren drivers got handed debatable penalties.

Alledgedly - though it arrived in every single other pit box.

I have to disagree there because I don't think the team were going to pit for wets at the time, their thought being if they start of intermediates behind the safety car the weather might clear up and give them track advantage. The team were forced to come in within 5 laps or face disqualification. In hindsight that strategy wasn't probably the best but the team still were forced to pit when they werent intending to.

As I remember they were spinning every second corner, even under the safety car. They had to come in.

Didn't have anything to do with mechanical violations with the cars, but Mansell was banned for 1 race in 1989 for not seeing a black flag in Portugal, then crashing with Senna in the wreck that essentially settled the WDC.

Mansell (in a Ferrari) was also disqualified from Canada in 1989 for ignoring a red light at the end of the pit lane. What is it with English drivers and Canadian traffic lights?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idszB_ksmjU

Kimi was punished for his rim problem.

The greatest thing about that link was where it's first link thereafter was to . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8rv23q9sZM

That Fontana wasn't penalized for THAT is quite astonishing.

Schumacher in Monaco 2006, Hungary 2006 (grid penalty), Melbourne 2003 (black flag for his car falling apart), Malaysia 2003 (drive through), Magny-Cours 2002 (drive through for touching the white line while coming out from the pits), Canada 1998 (drive through for pushing out Frenzten when coming out from the pits), 1997 Austria (for passing under yellows). 1997 Jerez, of course.

Would it not be more interesting to know when Ferrari have done the same thing as McLaren but not got a penalty? Like blocking in qual, running into another driver or cutting the track and overtake.

We all know that Ferrari get punished from time to time but the debate is more about Ferrari not getting punished by the FIA.

I think that Hamilton's penalty is iffy, and not sure that it will stand. If it stands I will accept that, if it does not I will accept that as well.

But which are the examples of Ferrari drivers doing exactly what Hamilton and Kovalainen have done this season, and NOT gotten penalties?

The Schumacher / DeLa Rosa example is the best I've seen.

You have an extremely biased memory, then again your nick aptly describes how utterly provincial - your perspectives - and myopic you are




Try THE precedent than...Montoya/Schumacher @Monza 2001. There has not been a single case of a defending driver punished for Chicane-cutting and vise versa that is a pursuing driver is Always penalized for chicane cutting if they don't relinquish the gained position/advantage properly. So very a bad example IMHO.

Well DeLaRosa did to Schumacher almost exactly what Raikonnen did to Hamilton. And Hamilton DID relinquish the gained position/advantage properly which is why all this it nonsense anyway. :\

HA! Great clip! Two things I learned from it:
a) Had no idea Murray Walker did his commentary standing up and bouncing around, not seated!
b) Near the end, MW is casually talking about "team orders" at Williams and Brundle doesn't flinch a muscle, this to me is an unheard of allegation, surely only Ferrari did and still *does* the dirty deed.

Spa 08 - Hamilton used chicane run off to gain advantage (25s penalty), Raikkonen uses run off round Pouhon to gain on Mclaren car - no investigation.

Is that a young Ted Kravitz in the bottom left in that clip?

I'm sure I read once that Ferrari won that appeal because McLaren didn't request they bring the entire car to the court, so they couldn't measure the angle or something in relation to the car.

Looks like it.

Yep, 7 penalties in all for McLaren drivers this season. Hamilton has actually nearly averaged 1 in every 3 races he has started, which is quite ridiculous. And despite it he's leading the championship. Eat that, Ferrari.

Didn't Schumacher get a drive through penalty at a British GP and take it to the last opportunity where he finished the race sitting in his pit box, shame Lewis couldn't have benefitted from a drive through on the last lap of Spa and thus cross the line in the pits.

So what is the chance of that happening!? Smth like 1000*1000*1000... 1/1000000000 One in a billion.

It was a stop and go and he finished the race before he took the penalty, therefore it was added to his final race time, just as happened to Lewis