I know this,but why should the manufacturers put up with this shit year after year? F1 needs manufacturers not the other way around.

If the manufacturers came up with proposals when they were asked for them we wouldn't have this crap.

Well we can agree that theres assholes on both sides

Yes, but they all dump in the same direction. :\

If the true purpose of this suggestion is to control costs, then I have a couple of questions that someone on the forum may be able to answer;

1. How will the various expensively developed KERS systems fit into this plan?

2. How much do the teams spend on aerodynamics research in comparison to engine/drivetrain?

FIA does not make LMP regulations, ACO does. Slightly offtopic, but since you mentioned this, just last month ACO published plans for future engine rules in 2011, to downsize LMP1 cars to use engines that are similarly sized to present generation LMP2 engines (plus electric motors, to make up the power difference) and meant-to-be-for-privateers-LMP2 would use solely FIA GT2 homologated engines.

Interesting plans for Formula Nippon. I tried Googling but what kind of engines Nippons are this season using?

this is a good point , right now they have appointed Markus Duesmann to lead the effort for coming up with the new cheaper engine specifications.

F1 didn't do too badly when Cossie were supplying engines to half the grid ...

But I disagree with the "let's race for half a season with them".

Get a Cosworth V10, get it screaming, bolt on some KERS "Let's save the planet or at least pretend to" gubbins, then let the rest get on with it.

Two-weekend engines are fine, and the amount saved alone in engine development will be HUGE.

My thoughts exactly.

TV etc. pays more than enough, Bernies take is to big.

So it's not okay for the teams to spend millions, but it's okay for Bernie to charge millions and make it unprofitable to hold a race. Oh I get it now.

it is ok.. the question is can they continue to do so under these economic conditions.. ? the simple answer is NO

I stand corrected regarding the LMP2 regulations. To answer your question, the current F-N series runs 3.0L V-8s. Formula Nippon is originally an off-hot of F3000 and early engines were primarily DFVs, Judds KVs, and Mugen MF308s that were rev-limited to 9,000rpm. Since then, the series has evolved into 3.0L V-8s rev limited to 10,300rpm that are based off of IRL engines (from both Toyota and Honda).

Formula-Nippon as you can imagine has very low-viewership and needed to lower-cost and bring in more manufacturers. The choice to use 3.4L V-8s were cost decision, logic being that the engine has already been developed, compatible with multiple-series overseas, allows manufacturers to keep brand identity, and are designed to be durable and can compete in endurance events.

While I'm not suggesting F1 should adopt this engine, I am suggesting that they should adopt this philosophy in reducing cost. Not just making an expensive 'Ferrari'-DFV that companies rebrand with their logo. Superior cost saving can be achieved by economies of scale, manufacturer participation, standardization, cooperation with other series, and consistency in regulation.

Well i think they have a funny way of negotiating then. If i was a potential new team owner, say Audi, id think twice before sleeping with such twisting ****heads like Mosley and Ecclestone. Big stock market noted companies want stability, not this kind of nonsense.

Iirc there was only place for one more slot. Several (about 8 -10) people/parties have written in, amongst them stoddart and eddie jordan but prodrive got the slot.

They decided to stay out once it became clear that mclaren wasnt gonna give them a mclaren chassis for free and that people where objecting to the idea of customer cars (williams) and that in 2010 it would be impossible to run another teams chassis. The slot opens again in 2010 so expect a bidding war this winter.

If by any chance, williams or renault would decide to leave and sell everything, all their know how, facilities and history, not to mention the paid for slot bond (48 million$) it would be a gift from heaven from any potential newcomer. They wouldnt have to invest in new technology/facilities, they could probably take over most if not all of the experienced staff.

So not only does the FIA themselves keep the grid level low, it is also unthinkable a big team with dissapear from the face of the earth once the owners decide to get out of the kitchen. If it does get to become a 14 car grid, bernie and max can only blame themselves. They can open up 3 new slots right now and have a back up plan in case something does go wrong.

If they are serious about cutting costs they should think about other areas. A salary cap for instance. A budget cap would also be nice. A limit on how many stories a motorhome can have. Joe bloke never gets in the paddock and doesnt care how big they are but strangely i dont hear the 2 men in charge about that.

I think the problem with the plan is that it isnt F1... F1 has always? been about compertion on all levels, the multiple chassis (both constructor and customer), engines, fuel, tyres etc.

and, how many people actully care about stock series? i like IRL and nascar, a smidge of GP2, and a lil NHRA.

F1 got itself in this situation, i mean back in the day it used tobe a handful of guys and a couple of cars, and now williams employ 520 people, and put 2 cars on the grid 18 times a year.

on the one hand its crazy, on the other its crazy, but thats the appeal:)

at the end of the day when they talk about cost saving, its basicaly making people unemployed :\

Somebody need to make trouble for Bernie and Max .......the forever kind.

As credit dries up so will F1, fortunately.

Out of the ruins perhaps RACING will be born.

According to reports only Renault, Honda and Toyota will be allowed to change some of the internals of their engine to equalise performance with the rest. Each of the teams have to present the FIA with documentation of what they intend to do.
(http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...mprove-engines/)

It's just crazy really. The freeze was Mosley's idea and now he effectively isn't happy with it. And it's all because of the most obvious reason that anyone could have told him - that if you freeze engines any imbalances will be frozen too. Now Mosley is on the verge of making another giant blunder (standardising engines) but at least the teams have had a say in it this team by voting on it as well as standard brakes, wheels, axels, wings etc when they met in Singapore

What is really at the back of this is away of somebody (or more correctly two or three somebodies) pocketing a very large slice of money that is currently spent internally within the teams/engine manufacturers.

A better way of saving money and environmental damage is by placing severe restrictions on the number personnel teams take to each race --- taking the average number of personnel Mclaren and Ferrari bring to each race and deviding it by 10 would be about be about right.

Very true. It smacks to me of the same kind of logic for the introduction of KERS which is packaged as making F1 environmentally friendly when in reality it isn't reducing consumption at all!!!!

I think Renault are already someway along the road and Toyota are getting there but Honda --- Unless they show a major improvement in the first couple of races of 09 I don't really think they are going to stick with F1 much longer, the credit crunch will be a good excuse to leave.