Old photo collection

Some more photos:


Above: a Bugatti leaves the startline at Prescott


Above: an Alfa Romeo (?) leaves the start line again at Prescott


Above: John Bolster & Bloody Mary at Shelsley Walsh


Above: Silverstone Paddock/pits and a Bugatti is parked up


Above: a fraser-Nash (?) on track at Silverstone

Any chance that someone out there can help with identification?

Originally posted by HiRich

Looks to me like another 500cc Formula III (or possibly such a car running a larger motor), but it's very difficult to make anything out.
Twin exhausts suggests a Triumph engine.
Chassis-wise, there are a lot of conflicting messages. In some ways I'd suggest a late-model Cooper (1954 Mk VIII onwards), but other bits look wrong.

With so many races to consider, can you give any indication of when it was taken?

Its definitely not a Vincent either in single 500cc or 1000 cc V twin configuration. I think it might be an AMC twin even possibly a G45 ?

Things seem to have gone quiet so I'll post some more photos to excit some interest:


Above: Silverstone and a mono-headlighted special with "Turner wheels"


Above: Silverstone and another special with just the one head light.


Above: Silverstone and it's the Tojeiro-JAP Asteroid but who are the chaps stood behind it?

and finally;


Above: Silverstone and a varied collection of cars.

Originally posted by Stephen W


Above: Silverstone and another special with just the one head light.

The hanger in the background - the reason for Hanger Straight?

Originally posted by Stephen W

Above: Silverstone and it's the Tojeiro-JAP Asteroid but who are the chaps stood behind it?

Second from left could be Brian Lister

Originally posted by alansart


The hanger in the background - the reason for Hanger Straight?

That's the one at Abbey which I remember well. I suppose there must have beeen one near Hanger straight too, but I don't think I ever saw it. (I was first at Silverstone circa 1955)

Originally posted by Stephen W


and finally;


Above: Silverstone and a varied collection of cars.

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The Cooper at the front is almost certainly a 1948 mk2 from the first batch of 11 cars.

Originally posted by David Beard


That's the one at Abbey which I remember well. I suppose there must have beeen one near Hanger straight too, but I don't think I ever saw it. (I was first at Silverstone circa 1955)

David are you sure? Abbey is uphill, that looks like the exit of Chapel (Mind you I was first at Silverstone circa 1971 - I spent part of 1955 being born)

Sitting here with long time Snett snapper Richard Styles looking at these. These last few are Snetterton. The hangar is at the exit of Coram on the outside. It was full of farm machinery in the '50s and belonged to Fred Riches. It was pulled down late 50s. Agree that is Brian Lister in the Asteroid shot.

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Sitting here with long time Snett snapper Richard Styles looking at these. These last few are Snetterton. The hangar is at the exit of Coram on the outside. It was full of farm machinery in the '50s and belonged to Fred Riches. It was pulled down late 50s. Agree that is Brian Lister in the Asteroid shot.

That makes sense.

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson
Sitting here with long time Snett snapper Richard Styles looking at these. These last few are Snetterton. The hangar is at the exit of Coram on the outside. It was full of farm machinery in the '50s and belonged to Fred Riches. It was pulled down late 50s. Agree that is Brian Lister in the Asteroid shot.

This is getting very complex. As well as Prescott, Shelsley Walsh and Silverstone there are now Snetterton photos in the mix!

Originally posted by Stephen W


Above: John Bolster & Bloody Mary at Shelsley Walsh

Look at those rain coats. Proper sensible attire. That's what people wore at motor racing events in the 50s...and wellies if you had any sense. People dressing up for the Revival seem to think we all wore evening dress or military uniform.

There are some terrific old photos in this book, published last year. As you can see from the front cover, the old hangar at Snetterton at Coram is in the background. Having looked further into this, it was pulled down in 1954. The concrete base was used as the skid pan when Jim set up his school, actually using oil to make it slippery.
http://www.chaters.c...0675_edited.JPG

Aggree Andrew!Simon Lewis recommanded it me to last year saying there were some transporter picture . Right he was! But I never regretted all the other lovely pics form that period. They give you so much feeling as how it was then. Highly recommended !

Look at those rain coats. Proper sensible attire. That's what people wore at motor racing events in the 50s...and wellies if you had any sense. People dressing up for the Revival seem to think we all wore evening dress or military uniform.

You would have felt pretty uncomfortable in a mac and wellies at this year's revival!

Now that my browser has allowed me to see the images I would like to try and identify some of the cars.

In the original post the ERA has been correctly identified as being Bob Gerard's. I can add that it is R4A which was his hillclimb car and I believe it was painted white. The chassis was still white after it returned from S.Africa in the early 1960s when owned by Peter Brewer and later by John Venables-Llewelyn.

The Bugatti T35B shown in the first post is I believe Peter Stubberfield's car before it was converted to a single seater but I can't make out the registration number to make sure.

Moving on the post 36 and the Cooper. I think the picture was taken at Snetterton (there was a pit top balcony there too) and I think it is the same car as in post 53 - note the roll hoop. The engine could well be a BSA Star Twin (as used in the Mezzolitre coincidentally) but I can't be sure; I don't think it is a Matchless G45 though. The Cooper in the latter photo is a Mk V, VI or VII and as I said I'm pretty sure they are one and the same car so it has been modified as the side tanks have been removed (a la Beart Mk VIIA).

In post 51 the Bugatti T35B (HED 21) is that of Edward Greenall and had a Ford V8 fitted - look closely where the exhausts exit. This car was later returned to spec by Geoffrey St. John and was later raced by Terry Cardy.

In post 53 car number 52 is an Aston Martin International; whose I don't know.

Originally posted by Dutchy
Moving on the post 36 and the Cooper. I think the picture was taken at Snetterton (there was a pit top balcony there too) and I think it is the same car as in post 53 - note the roll hoop. The engine could well be a BSA Star Twin (as used in the Mezzolitre coincidentally) but I can't be sure; I don't think it is a Matchless G45 though. The Cooper in the latter photo is a Mk V, VI or VII and as I said I'm pretty sure they are one and the same car so it has been modified as the side tanks have been removed (a la Beart Mk VIIA).

Very good call, James
- You are correct about the obscured Cooper in post 53, and I think it logical that the two shots are from the same meeting.
- I would place that car as a MkVII or a Mk VI (the nose looks both original and more aero than the Mk V). The car looks new/professionally finished, which would suggest 1952-3, but the mods give us a bit longer, perhaps 1954.
- BSAs were already pretty rare by then (mainly the Mezzolitres, plus Billy Nicholson in the Kieft), so it should restrict options dramatically. Problem is that results and race numbers for the smaller events, particularly Snetterton, are rather patchy.
- Richard is also correct that the fore car is most likely a Mk II
That leads me to it being a club event. I'm also left wondering what sort of meeting would bring together a Bug' and a 500? AMOC? Or perhaps it is a sprint rather than race meeting?

Rich, it could have been one of a large number of sprints or low key club meetings. The West Essex Car Club were regular organisers at Snetterton (after the demise of Boreham) however they enjoyed quite a high profile in those days.

Originally posted by Dutchy
Now that my browser has allowed me to see the images I would like to try and identify some of the cars.

In the original post the ERA has been correctly identified as being Bob Gerard's. I can add that it is R4A which was his hillclimb car and I believe it was painted white. The chassis was still white after it returned from S.Africa in the early 1960s when owned by Peter Brewer and later by John Venables-Llewelyn.

The Bugatti T35B shown in the first post is I believe Peter Stubberfield's car before it was converted to a single seater but I can't make out the registration number to make sure.

Moving on the post 36 and the Cooper. I think the picture was taken at Snetterton (there was a pit top balcony there too) and I think it is the same car as in post 53 - note the roll hoop. The engine could well be a BSA Star Twin (as used in the Mezzolitre coincidentally) but I can't be sure; I don't think it is a Matchless G45 though. The Cooper in the latter photo is a Mk V, VI or VII and as I said I'm pretty sure they are one and the same car so it has been modified as the side tanks have been removed (a la Beart Mk VIIA).

In post 51 the Bugatti T35B (HED 21) is that of Edward Greenall and had a Ford V8 fitted - look closely where the exhausts exit. This car was later returned to spec by Geoffrey St. John and was later raced by Terry Cardy.

In post 53 car number 52 is an Aston Martin International; whose I don't know.

Thanks for the identifications etc. Now for some more:


Above: start of a race at what I have assumed is Silverstone.


Above: another shot of the Tojeiro-JAP Asteroid.


Above: again I have assumed this is Silverstone.


Above: an ERA but whose & where? Note the Cooper Car Co transporter in the background.

The ERA above with the Cooper lorry in the background next to the Golding-Cooper is at Snetterton, June 1953? the Golding-Cooper was raced by John Barber at Snett in JUne 53 then at British Empire Trophy on the Isle of Man and then once more at Snett, the car was then re-bodied.

In DCN's Cooper Cars (p102/103) he comments that the Golding-Cooper was very similar to the Owen Maddock coupe car drawing, from this photo and more so the photo on the transporters thread, it would seam that maybe Cooper had a bit more involvement with this car, normally you would expect to park the transporter next to the car you are supporting, with the door on the same side?

Originally posted by Dutchy
You would have felt pretty uncomfortable in a mac and wellies at this year's revival!

Because it didn't rain or because I would have felt underdressed

Great photographs ....

I must say, I find the background scenes in the pics just as fascinating as the racing cars!

Memories of an England now long-gone and, if the street scenes in "The Bill" are anything to go by, that England has been replaced by one featuring hordes Euro-boxes and Japanese "cars" - I want that Humber !!!

Could the gentleman standing with his hands behind his back looking at the Cooper No 38 be Bill Boddy?

Derek

Originally posted by Stephen W




Above: another shot of the Tojeiro-JAP Asteroid.

I think that is Archie's MG TD XS 6931 behind the Asteroid. The combination of my eyes, my glasses and my screen isn't brilliant and I can't quite read the number

Originally posted by D-Type
I think that is Archie's MG TD XS 6931 behind the Asteroid. The combination of my eyes, my glasses and my screen isn't brilliant and I can't quite read the number

The two prints are both the same - "soft focus" or as I prefer "slightly out of focus!" - so fear not D-Type that trip to Specsavers can be postponed!

Originally posted by HiRich




Looks to me like another 500cc Formula III (or possibly such a car running a larger motor), but it's very difficult to make anything out.
Twin exhausts suggests a Triumph engine.
Chassis-wise, there are a lot of conflicting messages. In some ways I'd suggest a late-model Cooper (1954 Mk VIII onwards), but other bits look wrong.

With so many races to consider, can you give any indication of when it was taken?

I think this could be ex-Stuart Lewis-Evans cooper mk5 as the roll bar is the same as in the Simon lewis bookshop picture of Stuart Lewis-Evans at Silerstone in 1952

Richard, I see where you're coming from, but , but somewhere in my "to be catalogued" file I have a report of someone else (possibly Alan Brown) also adding a hoop.

Originally posted by Stephen W

Above: again I have assumed this is Silverstone.

The Bugatti at the bottom leads me to think this is part of the same sequence with the Coopers. For my sins, though, I'm still unclear whether this is Snetterton or Silverstone. Would someone please confirm. Given that Snetterton only opened in 1951, I would question how soon a proper pit facility with roof viewing would have been constructed. Any idea?

I have scanned races for 500s at Snetterton through '52 &'53 (fairly well documented), and I'm finding clear mismatches. If indeed it is Snetterton, I'm leaning towards an Eastern Counties sprint, on which I have only a scattering of records.

Or am I looking 100 miles too far to the East?

Originally posted by HiRich
I'm still unclear whether this is Snetterton or Silverstone.

The grass "island" beyond the track is visible in both pictures, so I hope we can assume that it's the same track.





There are shadows cast by the people on the roof in the second photo. I think for the scene to be Snetterton, the sun would need to be shining from the north. There seem to be some faint shadows in the first pic too.

Snetterton aerial view http://maps.google.c...16&g=snetterton

Originally posted by HiRich
If indeed it is Snetterton, I'm leaning towards an Eastern Counties sprint...

...supported no doubt by the throng of spectators in the area opposite the pits
(could be practice though, I suppose ;) )

Some More Track Shots:


Above: a bit blurred but .......


Above: assembly area.


Above: monoposto race

and finally .........


Above: another paddock shot.

Originally posted by Stephen W

Healey Silverstone on the far side - the nearer car looks very much as if it's wearing Alta wheels

Phot 1; rearground car possibly Healey Silverstone, going by the chrome trims on the long bonnet side. foreground looks possibly FN High Speed variant from the wheels but with a more rounded tail.
photo 4; Performance Cars, the truck at the rear, were/are renowned s/h car dealers in Chiswick, whose premises were later alongside the Flyover, and sported a large clock on the roof IIRC. same people?
Roger Lund

Originally posted by Stephen W




Looks like Silverstone to me.



This is the startline at Snetterton. Trees stood in the area where the paddock is today, before the pits were built so I'd say this is 1952 or 1953.



Snetterton again..leading away from the start towards Riches.

and finally .........



Possibly Snett again. Is that the control tower in the background?

In addition to Andrews previous posting:-

AUL 41 is the Frazer Nash owned by Alec Sears, and I assume that the F.N. (BMP 845) next to it belongs to his brother Chris. These two men farmed near March in Cambridgeshire, I do not know if they were related to 'Gentleman' Jack Sears or not

And adding even more...... Is it possible that what Andrew thinks is the Control Tower; is in fact the same van/bus that is in the background of the Lister/Tojeiro Asteroid at Snetterton photograph on the previous page. As a long shot, it could possibly be the ex USAAF Dodge used by Eastern Radio Amplification of Norwich which provided the P.A. system, however I may be wrong!

Whooa great photos Stephen!!! in the background is the RD Poore transporter, with two people sat on the roof



Interesting to see the other identical Dodge too, in different colours

thanks, Rick

Aggree to both Dodges , but what about the truck on the right in post 53 "Performance cars" and the on on the right background in the last picture , any wild guesses ?

Looks Fordson-ish, perhaps ex War Dept.
Roger Lund

The lorry in the right background, behind the photo of car 47, looks like a K8 Austin to me going off the shape of the cab, doors etc

Rick

Car 47 is a Turner ,possibly raced by Chris Threfall .

Originally posted by HiRich
Richard, I see where you're coming from, but , but somewhere in my "to be catalogued" file I have a report of someone else (possibly Alan Brown) also adding a hoop.

The Bugatti at the bottom leads me to think this is part of the same sequence with the Coopers. For my sins, though, I'm still unclear whether this is Snetterton or Silverstone. Would someone please confirm. Given that Snetterton only opened in 1951, I would question how soon a proper pit facility with roof viewing would have been constructed. Any idea?

I have scanned races for 500s at Snetterton through '52 &'53 (fairly well documented), and I'm finding clear mismatches. If indeed it is Snetterton, I'm leaning towards an Eastern Counties sprint, on which I have only a scattering of records.

Or am I looking 100 miles too far to the East?

copyright Simon Lewis

you can see that the roll bar is the same

link to the photo for sale by Simon Lewis transport books.

Some more possible identifications:
In post 70 the ERA is I think the Walker/Whitehead car R10B but I am open to correction.

In post 80 the car in the foreground is not a Frazer Nash. I think it is a BMW based special - the giveaway are the wheels which are the lightweight wheels developed by Willis of Willis BMW fame

The Tojeiro of Chris Threlfall in post 53 is I think the car advertised for sale in the current issue of The Automobile - I don't have my copy anymore so I'm going from memory

I thought the ERA looked more like R14B

David, R14B as one of Bob Gerard's cars had a much lower bonnet line and a small radiator with a circular grille by this time

I didn't realise we had a date for this ;)

It could be R10B, or R9B. Or R14B, depending on the timing

The picture of the ERA with the Golding Cooper in the background was dated as 1953 in an earlier post and R14B was raced in its modified form by Gerard as early as 1948 so it can't be R14B.
I don't think it's R9B either as it had a much higher tail - it certainly had by the time Peter Waller had it at least.

Gerard did indeed have that silly round nose in 1948, but photos I've checked of 1950 and 1951 appearances show it was back to normal by then. It did seem to retain the lowered bonnet-line however

I'm not ruling out R10B - the light colour in the photo was what initially put me off that

I've just looked up a photo of R9B when Brian Shawe-Taylor had it in 1950 and it had the high tail so that rules R9B out

Another shot of the ERA:

Background transporter is Ecurie Ecosse before it was modified and repainted (1955 I believe).