Blythy
Oct 12 2008, 13:40
Kuby is only 12 points behind, he's in a slower car and is fast. Also, he makes very few mistakes. Hamilton and massa are very fast, but have faster cars and both have made a lot of mistakes this year (Silverstone and Canada scream to mind), however both have had dominating drives (Hungary and Silverstone come to mind, even though massa didn't get the points he deserved).
I reckon that none of them deserve the wdc to be honest. The wdc should be someone who is fast and makes very very few mistakes. But on the control and the mistakes count, I reckon kubica is more worthy, even if at the moment, hamilton and massa are faster.
Kubica does deserve it more, I don't think BMW does though since engineers from Ferrari and McLaren have built faster cars.
giacomo
Oct 12 2008, 13:47
Well, I am sure we'll find someone else in a car even slower than Kubica's. What about Button or Webber?
otoelpiloto
Oct 12 2008, 13:49
Imperial
Oct 12 2008, 13:53
Well personally I never like to see a driver in any race series take a title without winning at least an equal number of races as the next guy, preferably more.
The following choice of words is meant as no offence to Robert, but my least 'favourite' type of championship winner is one who leeches his way through the season and stacks up bits of points here and there quite often through attrition.
A worthy champ to me is one who battles mega hard week-in week-out and takes wins. I therefore believe in 2008 the title will be most deserved by either Hamilton or Massa. There'll be plenty of arguments at seasons end about 'well if this hadn't happened the other would have won', but they are clearly the two guys who have fought hardest for it.
So personally I say no he does not most deserve to win the title. Give him third place, as Raikkonen has been incredibly unconvincing this season and frankly should not bank his ridiculous pay cheque.
But if by some incredible act from beyond the stars Robert manages to win the title I'll still be very happy for him, for my own personal reasons. As a Brit I am glad I can side with Hamilton, but Robert is always my 2nd fave.
Mika Mika
Oct 12 2008, 13:54
probably
MichaelPM
Oct 12 2008, 13:54
Yes he does.
In the future there will be great championship battles between Alonso, Kubica and Vettel each year and they will all clearly deserve what they achieve. *clicks heels to together and recites "theres no place like home"*
rolf123
Oct 12 2008, 13:54
He has won only one race this year. Therefore, no, he does not deserve the WDC.
noikeee
Oct 12 2008, 13:55
Originally posted by giacomo
Well, I am sure we'll find someone else in a car even slower than Kubica's. What about Button or Webber?
No, we won't find anyone else. Button has been outclassed by Barrichello way too often this year for someone to seriously suggest he's having a good season. Webber I mentioned a couple of times at the start of the season as the only other guy apart from Kubica that seemed flawless... but I don't think he's been very impressive this 2nd half of the year, even if the Red Bull is going backwards.
Kubica has been consistent and quick. Perhaps not as amazingly quick as Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel have shown in some occasions, but he's certainly done more to pick up all the points available to him than anyone else in the grid. Driver of the year for me.
Galko877
Oct 12 2008, 13:57
Originally posted by MichaelPM
Yes he does.
In the future there will be great championship battles between Alonso, Kubica and Vettel each year and they will all clearly deserve what they achieve. *clicks heels to together and recites "theres no place like home"*
You've forgotten Hamilton. Sometimes he is losing his head, yes, but he will learn and it's still only his second season. On natural talent, in the car, maybe he is the best of the current drivers. He is not as complete as Alonso though.
Cenotaph
Oct 12 2008, 13:58
For sure Kubica has been the best driver this season, however his car is not championship material. The driver does deserve the title, but the driver+car package doesn't and we all know that the car is what matters most in F1.
alg7_munif
Oct 12 2008, 14:26
Nah, FIA will give the WDC to Massa for sure.
Gemini
Oct 12 2008, 14:50
Not sure about WDC, but he definitely deserves Man of The Year award for being in WDC shot with less points off than Kimi was in 2007. And he achieved that when having 'not top 2' car for first half of the season and 'not even top 3 car' in second half.
With usual way the F1 business goes he should be 5th, not 3rd as he is now. And everybody knows that it goes longer way between 3rd and 5th than let's say 13th and 15th. That's the way F1 is.
Cannot think of any cirumstance like that in recent history. Maybe with exception of HHF in 1999's Jordan. But that was a season when Schumi was out for half of the year, and Mika really lost some focus...
GerardF1
Oct 12 2008, 15:11
Having watched Keke Rosberg win his championship with only 1 win - 11 drivers had a win that year - it was an exciting but sad title chase.
I would have very little problem if Kubica somehow manages to win the title this year.
I don't think he deserves it most, but he definitely deserves it more than Massa and if Hamilton keeps having races like today - well good on Kubica
niallmckiernan
Oct 12 2008, 15:17
yeah, as unlikely as it may be I think it would be great. Although you never if the top 3 championship contenders continue to have similar races to that of Japan......
Ricardo F1
Oct 12 2008, 15:18
No.
tkulla
Oct 12 2008, 15:23
Originally posted by paranoik0
No, we won't find anyone else. Button has been outclassed by Barrichello way too often this year for someone to seriously suggest he's having a good season. Webber I mentioned a couple of times at the start of the season as the only other guy apart from Kubica that seemed flawless... but I don't think he's been very impressive this 2nd half of the year, even if the Red Bull is going backwards.
Kubica has been consistent and quick. Perhaps not as amazingly quick as Hamilton, Alonso or Vettel have shown in some occasions, but he's certainly done more to pick up all the points available to him than anyone else in the grid. Driver of the year for me.
Judging Button by this season doesn't make much sense. History has shown that when the car is good Button is a level above Rubens, and that when the car is shit they are even (and they HAVE been even in pace this season). This year's car may as well be a lawn tractor for comparison purposes.
OT - Kubica has been very good. I'm tempted to question why he wasn't able to beat Alonso yesterday, but looking at Heidfeld's performance (relative to Piquet especially) I'd have to say that Robert must have done a superb job to stay close to the Spaniard.
barteks
Oct 12 2008, 15:46
Originally posted by rolf123
He has won only one race this year. Therefore, no, he does not deserve the WDC.
WDC is a guy who scores most points, not most wins...
mariuszek
Oct 12 2008, 15:49
At first I was disappointed Robert couldn't keep up with Alonso today, but that Renault was just too fast for the BMW today.
And for those who are tired with Robert's "whining" about BMW's lack of progress in the second half of the year:
Massa after the race about Hamilton's start: "For me that was a little bit too optimistic especially if you are thinking about the championship."
Then what about your move on Lewis, Felipe?
Hamilton before the race about approaching the start: ""I'll just be sensible. I won't be closing the door on anyone and taking silly risks."
Surely Lewis you won't.
Robert has had a great season, he has done a better job than Felipe and Lewis both on and off track
Robert does not deserve WDC this year.
But, in my book, i have no doubt he is a better F1 driver than both Massa and Lewis. Probably even than Kimi.
Yellowmc
Oct 12 2008, 15:53
We should just call off the WDC for this year. No one deserves it.
No. The reason why some people think he does is because the expectations on him were low, and he's surpassed them. But for long periods of the season, he was in a car that was not good enough to win, yet good enough to stay ahead of the midfield pack - which meant that he was not under the sort of pressure that the Ferrari and Mclaren drivers are under to fight for the win in every race, and he could often collect points (thus, looking consistent and error-free) without really having to mix it up with anyone in an equal car.
I'm not saying he's a bad driver. He's certainly one of the up and coming talents and belongs in F1 for a long time. But just because he's been good in a BMW doesn't mean that he'd be the same in a real championship contender.
howardt
Oct 12 2008, 16:00
Certainly RK has looked the most composed & consistent. Massa lost his head twice today, and Lewis once, and I don't beleive we've seen the last of the dumb bonehead moves from the 2 WDC-leading clowns. But you wouldn't bet on Robert doing something stupid and impetuous to jeopardise his race (or anyone else's).
But - he's only won 1 race, and that was thanks to another bonehead mistake by a front-runner. I really hope that he wins the next race on merit, beats the Fezzas & Macs in a fair race, and then I think we could say he deserves it.
absolutely yes ... if he win WDC
BuonoBruttoCattivo
Oct 12 2008, 16:01
No.
gincarnated
Oct 12 2008, 16:03
Lewis will be the most deserving of it if he wins. I mean look at everything he's been through this year in regards to the questionable steward decisions both against him and in favor of Ferrari.
Zarathustra
Oct 12 2008, 16:04
He hasn't scored the most points, and that's all that counts.
Imperial
Oct 12 2008, 16:06
Originally posted by Gemini
Cannot think of any cirumstance like that in recent history. Maybe with exception of HHF in 1999's Jordan. But that was a season when Schumi was out for half of the year, and Mika really lost some focus...
Your points about Schumacher and Hakkinen are valid, but I have always though HH-F should have been given some kind of award for punching above his car's weight throughout the season. Carrying out an actual title-contesting campaign in that car was unbelievable.
Galko877
Oct 12 2008, 16:07
Originally posted by Imperial
Your points about Schumacher and Hakkinen are valid, but I have always though HH-F should have been given some kind of award for punching above his car's weight throughout the season. Carrying out an actual title-contesting campaign in that car was unbelievable.
Wasn't he voted "Driver of the Year" by F1 Racing?
mariuszek
Oct 12 2008, 16:13
The question is - should one expect Kubica to win races in a car that is just not fast enough to do so? Or does anybody think it is fast enough? Is Kubica slower than Hamilton and Massa or is the BMW just slower than the Ferrari and the McLaren?
You play the cards you are given. He's got the car that is not the fastest out there, so the only way to try to out-score the faster cars is to be consistent and not necessarily spectacular. And he's doing it brilliantly.
giacomo
Oct 12 2008, 16:17
I remember similar Kubica praisings after he won in Canada. It will not last very long - just two 'normal' Ferrari and McLaren races without stupid blunders will wipe it out of the collective memories.
Alfisti
Oct 12 2008, 16:20
Originally posted by Imperial
A worthy champ to me is one who battles mega hard week-in week-out and takes wins. I therefore believe in 2008 the title will be most deserved by either Hamilton or Massa.
You're forgetting this is not a spec series, the mac and Ferarri are clearly faster so it's a whole lot easter to win races, especially when your team mates are muppets.
Originally posted by mariuszek
The question is - should one expect Kubica to win races in a car that is just not fast enough to do so? Or does anybody think it is fast enough? Is Kubica slower than Hamilton and Massa or is the BMW just slower than the Ferrari and the McLaren?
You play the cards you are given. He's got the car that is not the fastest out there, so the only way to try to out-score the faster cars is to be consistent and not necessarily spectacular. And he's doing it brilliantly.
But is it possible to judge his worthiness to be WDC - or to say whether he 'deserves' it 'most' - if he hasn't been subject to the same pressures and expectations that the Ferrari and McLaren drivers are? For them, being outside P1-P4 in qualifying or race is seen as 'failure', whereas Kubica doesn't have that sort of pressure on him.
Buttoneer
Oct 12 2008, 16:24
After today's defensive driving masterclass it would be churlish for anyone to claim that he didn't deserve the chance at a WDC, but I don't think it's fair to say that anyone deserves a WDC until they have won it. Fairly. With no FIA lies involved. Or arbitrary penalties.
Imperial
Oct 12 2008, 16:26
Originally posted by Alfisti
You're forgetting this is not a spec series, the mac and Ferarri are clearly faster so it's a whole lot easter to win races, especially when your team mates are muppets.
That's true but I also don't happen to think Kubica has fought hard in every race all year. Some of it is down to the car for sure, but some of it is down to him.
mariuszek
Oct 12 2008, 16:29
Originally posted by osj
But is it possible to judge his worthiness to be WDC - or to say whether he 'deserves' it 'most' - if he hasn't been subject to the same pressures and expectations that the Ferrari and McLaren drivers are? For them, being outside P1-P4 in qualifying or race is seen as 'failure', whereas Kubica doesn't have that sort of pressure on him.
You do have a point here, but while we don't know how would Kubica cope with the pressure of driving for Ferrari/McLaren where every 2nd place finish is a failure, we do know Hamilton and Massa are not coping with it at all now. I don't remember a season where there were so many screw ups from the two biggest championship contenders.
Originally posted by Buttoneer
After today's defensive driving masterclass it would be churlish for anyone to claim that he didn't deserve the chance at a WDC, but I don't think it's fair to say that anyone deserves a WDC until they have won it. Fairly. With no FIA lies involved. Or arbitrary penalties.
I think I know who YOU think deserves the WDC
Gemini
Oct 12 2008, 16:37
Originally posted by Imperial
Your points about Schumacher and Hakkinen are valid, but I have always though HH-F should have been given some kind of award for punching above his car's weight throughout the season. Carrying out an actual title-contesting campaign in that car was unbelievable.
Agreed
My mention of MS and Mika was not intended to take anything from HH-F. He was mega that year. If he only did not press the wrong button on his steering wheel at Nurburgring while leading...
But this was his year to remember... as much as this year is Kubica's.
WDC is of course out of reach for him (RK) this year, but hardcore F1 fans follow and remember more that just WCD P1 statistics.
Buttoneer
Oct 12 2008, 16:37
Originally posted by osj
I think I know who YOU think deserves the WDC
I wish I was as smart as you think you are.
hanish
Oct 12 2008, 16:39
Yes
bankoq
Oct 12 2008, 17:51
Originally posted by osj
But is it possible to judge his worthiness to be WDC - or to say whether he 'deserves' it 'most' - if he hasn't been subject to the same pressures and expectations that the Ferrari and McLaren drivers are? For them, being outside P1-P4 in qualifying or race is seen as 'failure', whereas Kubica doesn't have that sort of pressure on him.
Kubica is considered mentaly the strongest guy out there. Did you see any sign of fright in his driving after accident? He had to make a big gap in Canada over Nick to win, and he did it just like Schumi used to do. I didn't see him being nervous then. I have no doubts that he would have no problems with fighting for the win every race. Not at all.
wewantourdarbyback
Oct 12 2008, 17:55
He will get his chance, but if you don't get more points than the other drivers how can you deserve the title? :\
pacwest
Oct 12 2008, 17:56
No.
He hasn't been consistently fast, nor has be shone in qualifying. I've won 3 championships by going to every event and finishing 2nd (or worse) consistently. I was not the best. I just showed up.
It's Hamilton's to lose and Massa's to win. Bob has just been around for sloppy seconds.
More than Lewis and Massa by far.
Lazy Prodigy
Oct 12 2008, 18:39
Vettel does.
Tenmantaylor
Oct 12 2008, 18:42
A ridiculous concept. Driving the fastest car on the grid brings about a whole new sphere of pressure on a drivers mind to which Kubica has rarely been subject this season. I can think of no greater proof than what we witnessed in todays race from Hamilton and Massa.
barteks
Oct 13 2008, 18:24
Originally posted by Nukle
More than Lewis and Massa by far.
Ditto
jokuvaan
Oct 13 2008, 18:35
It would be great if Kubica gets it, I'm really hoping for it.
Lotus72b
Oct 13 2008, 18:43
I always believe this who ever scores the most points is the Champion. I don't care who deserving win the title. If it’s Kubica, hey congrats to him. If not Robert Kubica drove his heart out to get himself in the position to have a shot.
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