It seems to me they are, and they have been for years.

So far the right guy has won the championship, but if Massa wins by a point or two over Hamilton, the championship is worthless.

STOP IT! SOME DAY IT WILL BITE YOU IN THE ASS!

if my boy wins it's cool, otherwise a cheat fia manipulation.

I was a Hill fan in 1994, but they screwed Schumie over that season so it went to the wire.

Luckily the faster, more talented guy won.

Of course they do. The points system was changed due to Michael Schumacher being too good so more could get points, qualifying was changed to produce more of a spectacle. We have yearly scandals/controversies to keep people talking about F1. Penalties are there for 'enhancing' the show. The time Alonso got a penalty in Monza for simple being on the track when Massa was on it is one example.

Hopefully you'll hold the same oppinion when Lewis takes out Massa in Brazil FTFW

Yep, The whole Alonso 'blocking' a few years back was the worst manipulation ever. Total BS.

Lucky for the folks in charge, he won. Like I said above, some day it will go wrong and the championship will go to the wrong guy. Then the championship will be a laughing stock.

If any of the recent drivers have the balls to do that, it will be Lewis.

Senna was the last who would win at all odds. Schumacher tried, but his attempts were half-assed. Luckily it worked in 1994.

Lol sounds like you'll only be impressed if Lewis quals last in Brazil on purpose so he has an uninterupted reverse lap to take Massa out in a head-on WDC suicide attack.

Not always, but in some cases, yes. 1994, 1997, 1999, 2006, 2008.

Add the 2003 Michelin tyre debacle to your list

Good point.

They are probably more. 1989?

Are you referring to the Suzuka thing between Senna & Prost? Disqualifying Senna decided the WDC in favour of Prost, otherwise it wouldn't have been decided until Australia.

So no maniplation to create showdown there.

You are right. My mistake.

your agenda is clear, but still, explain why 1997 is on your list?

Kimi should not have won last year, and was not the "right guy" that won. That should rightfully have belonged to LH or FA.

Yes, i think F1 is manipulated, and not only to favour a showdown but more exactly to stirr things up. And to be honest im ok with it. It makes F1 more interesting to watch, all these drivers pissed at FIA and at other drivers. When they bring this feeling to the track, they deliver great shows.

the rivalry between Prost and Senna became more intense because of manipulation. The 94 championship would never be decided in the last race had Schumi not been banned for a few races. The rules were changed a few years ago to try to bring other teams closer to Ferrari, and now there are still efforts to make cars more equal in performance. F1 always had this since i remember, im a young guy, still in my early 20s, but there's nothing new about what is now perceived as favouring Ferrari.

In 1994 is the most undeserving champion in the sports history. Blatant cheating with driver aids and fuel rig. Hill would have looked like a god with those aids that year. The fact MS still cracked under pressure in the last race and then crashed into hill makes it all he more laughable.

When the opportunity exists - YES, without question.

I find it funny that ppl are saying this now. I recall a thread at the time when he won in which ppl gave their thought about whether Kimi was a deserving champion. And the result was an overwhelming yes. now because he is performing like crap in 2008 ppl are trying to bring his 2007 achievement down.

am i remembering it wrong?

Id say person not people. Alonso and Hamilton made some crucial unforced errors which without would have resulted in WDC and WCC for McLaren. Kimis last half of the season was pretty much error free and he deserved the title in the end. Think most would still agree.

yep pretty much

Hell Yes.

we are witnessing the NASCAR-ization of f1.

I was going to bring up that list as well. I'd also mention 2003, when the Michelin teams were running away with the championship until the infamous "clarification".

If the FIA are as corrupt and biased as some people think, why did they even bother giving a penalty to Massa? They could have simply said 'racing accident' and he'd probably be tied or leading the championship now.

Well possibly because they've received a lot of flak for being corrupt and biased lately, and this was a way for them to show everyone its not true. Though giving Lewis a very questionable penalty at the same time doesn't really help, I admit.

You do have a point, its just that not giving Massa a penalty would probably have incited another riot of unapproval, particularly by Mclaren fans, which maybe they were trying to avoid by at least being able to say they did do something about it.

Assuming you actually believe the championship is manipulated and this isn't just a fanboy flame thread, how do you know who the right guy is? Maybe every race is set up and manipulated.

Or is it only the wrong boy if your fave doesn't win?

Looks like a lot of you folk see conspiricies. Not me. This ain't WWF (or WWE), you know.

Well, there's still been all sorts of accusations made, not only that Massa's penalty was too light, but also that Bourdais' penalty was also designed to benefit Massa.

And BTW, I don't think the Lewis penalty was questionable at all. But that's just my humble opinion.

You mean WWE is fixed? No way!

Sadly I think that F1 is very much like wrestling. Not necessarily to engineer a particular WDC / WCC result , but to make sure that the competition goes down to the final round every year.
I think they've had too many bad experiences where the championship has been decided early, and interest tails off and causal fans don't bother watching the last few races because they are a dead rubber.

If you think about it, it's remarkable just how many years (out of the last, say, fifteen) the WDC and/or WCC has been decided at the final race. Compare this to, for instance, how many cricket test series are decided at the 5th test.

If I could be bothered (and one day I might), I'd dig out the stats and do a comparison across various sports, to see if the different is significant enough to be "significant".

The novel and unprecedented interpretation of the rule book this season has left a sour taste that makes it very hard to accept that Mosely in not pursuing a personal vendetta against Ron Dennis. I think the showdown is a fortunate byproduct - or a condition of Bernie's. I've been watching for over 30 years but this year has been a farce. The Bourdais penalty would not have been possible without the Donnelly appointment. The Spa fiasco likewise. Massa will win the WDC this year. But unless it's by more than 8 points it will be a hollow victory for corruption over motor racing. Spa was the last race I will watch until Mosely is out of the picture and there is a restructuring of the governing body. The fact that a Mugabe-esque tin pot dictatorship can be allowed to govern motorsport from an office in Paris in the 21st century is a disgrace.

ALL of Schumacher's title's have been manipulated FIA rewards, ... no question about it.

They screwed Schumi over because they couldn't prove the Benetton was using illegal traction control. Or, perhaps, they could, but didn't want to face the lawsuits over Senna's death.

Malaysia 1999 is the exemplar of fixing things to keep the titles going to the wire. Illegal Ferraris. Until the rule was reinterpreted to give a 5mm leeway.

It's close though.

I don't want to add anything to the theory of this thread. But I remember JV being handed out some penalties late in the season. Didn't he not slow down for a yellow flag in Suzuka warm-up or something like that? I don't remember exactly, but maybe it helps others to fill in the gap.

The possibility of Lewis taking out Massa for the title in Brazil only exists because the FIA have manipulated that to be a possibility. It should all be over by now.

Of course it is: this isn't sport, it's entertainment. Welcome to the petrolhead version of World Championship Wrestling.

JV overtook under a yellow flag whilst on a suspended one-race ban for the same offence.

Yea, there's still accusations about, but how much worse do you think it would have been had they done absolutely nothing at all?

'dems fightin' words!

If the championships were fixed, looking at the muppets that call themselves stewards, you really think one of them wouldn't have sold his story to the press by now?

If it supports my boy it's not manipulation but totally in order.



You may recognize, that there are people watching the races who aren't fans of any of the WDC competitors. For us it looks totally stupid what is being done there.

I'll admit: something odd is going on with the penalties. It's not the first time, though.

I don't want to say yes, but it does seem that whenever there is an opportunity to benefit a certain team, it is taken.

The stewards should be independent, impartial and consistent. However, they seem to be neither.

In fixed 'sports', the good guys always win. Why then, did Michael Schumacher pick-up 7 titles to, say, Gilles Villeneuve's zero?

Because one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and 'good' is therefore a matter of perception

Who are "they", and how do they do it?

For a moment there, I thought you were talking about NASCAR.

Well, ... they let MS win so many title's because it simply made a lot more money, had nothing to do with good-guy/bad-guy stuff. Only money, money and money alone.