http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71420
The teams are NOT happy.
Does anyone blame them?
He speaks cost cutting on one side, then does this.
Again, the sands shift and the rules change...and rule changes have long been identified as the biggest cost factor.
Does Max know what he's doing?

Heh, the original engine freeze was a stupid idea in the first place. But if the manufacturers can't stop spending, then how can the F1 teams be saved from themselves?

Perhaps the FIA shouldn't of allowed reliability mods.

They did stop spending. They fired all the engine development guys based on the freeze. Now they need to re-hire them. This is very costly.

Well good thing they did because the Ferrari and Mercedes engines were SOOOO unreliable in 2007!!!!!!!!

Renault, Honda, Toyota are not teams? And no mention of Ferrari in the article either.

Great Quote from Ron Dennis ¨This does our head in ¨

As a williams toyota and renault and red bull fan id say they have a point. As a ferrari fan id say this is yet another measure to kill our honestly gained advantage, just like they implemented different qualifying rules and the one tyre a race rule. In short: im divided :\

They can't. And they shouldn't be.

The engine freeze was stupid and so I'm glad it is gone.

It does, however, highlight the "brilliant" thought processes that go into deciding F1 regs. They can't leave it alone for five minutes!

It helps even out the field, since Renault have fallen behind in engine power. Supposedly Toyota and Honda as well. Shoul make for a closer competition. Of course Ferrari, Marcedes and BMW are not happy with this. The will loose their advantage.

Does that hurt?

The teams that will gain are the ones that secretly held on to their engine development group then pressured the FIA into this decision.

excatly the ones who now have 1 full year of upgraids done...

no no no, this needs to stop, the teams did not fall behind, they didnt do their homework properly from the beginning, both bmw, merc and ferrari have got their engine checked and it was the same spec that was frozen

im split over this too :/

better to just enforce a new engine type (turbo based ...) that way it's the same for everyone.. startong from sctartch

yes v12 turbocharged, with kers boost button hello 1500hp or whatever is possible

Well, there's a bunch of cheap spec turbo single-seaters waiting for F1 to take them... just need paint and decals... and kers.

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/08/03/motorsp...p-car-unveiled/

Apart from the reliability modifications, of course.


An engine freeze needs to be an engine freeze. That means no modifications to anything at any time. the only way they should be allowed a reliability modification is after some reliability issues, i.e. 3 failures at a race weekend.

Bigger worry is what is meant by 'equalization'

Excatly I wander if some engines will be more equal than others? LOL

I'm still of the idea that teams can spend whatever the hell they want in order to be competitive. What the teams do with their money is their business and the FIA shouldn't be sticking their snouts in there anyway.

They can stop spending, but some teams are unwilling to accept others have more money to spend and want the FIA to force those teams to lower their budgets.

It's easy to see why, but the long term damage done may end up being greater than the short term success. It's a difficult decision.

And should only be an annual change - if your engine is unreliable just turn it down

What's next, smaller engines with smaller tailing profiles to improve aerodynamics?

Yes!

So the engines will get more and more expensive as teams tailor them to make incremental improvements - just what the FIA didn't want. The usual teams will cointinue to do very well (as it should be). When will the FIA learn?

For 2009 you got engines with standardized performance, for 2010 the plan is to have standardized engines.

2013 turbo standardized engine.

That's whats next if the FIA has anything to say about it..

I was dead set against the engine freeze but I am a firm believer that if a rule is enforced then it should be enforced for all and not for some.

What a disgrace it is that some underperforming teams whine a bit and get the rule rescinded. Teams have wound down their engine development divisions only to find out that the engine race is suddenly going to be back on. And who will be the teams who are ready to go with the development divisions still functional? Hmm...could it be the underperforming whiners?

Another punchline in the F1 Joke Festival that started around Spa 2008 and just keeps on rolling like a 300 feet long coal-train with no brakes.

Jesus, I never thought I would see the day when F1 goes all touring-car and basically changes a rule to benefit a couple of sh!theads.

Exactly. Who decides and, more importantly, who has the technical knowledge to check properly?

2009 is shaping up to be a de-facto fixed championship.

The method sounds simple when Nick Fry talks about it, lets equalise power curves! ...but I wouldn't want my Mercedes being tuned by the FIA!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/71420

Don't worry it'll be something like McLaren's equality... oh wait!

I have to agree.

One question for the FIA: How can the FIA standardize performance?

AFAIK - The ECU can monitor/adjust RPM, timing, fuel-flow, etc. The cars must also have "torque-meters" to determine power output - but this reading is influenced by aero-resistance/effeciency. The only way I know of to measure torque/horsepower from an engine is to use a dynometer (please correct me if I'm wrong).

So does this mean that they will be hooking each car to a dynometer? I don't think, nor hope so.

It is my theory that the term "Equalize" is a euphamism for "Allow Redeveloping". I can't imagine they will allow Honda to redevelop and not allow Ferrari to do the same. Hence all teams re-develop. The engines go back to being re-developed throughout the year (smaller size, lesser weight, more power, etc.).

What a complete utter clusterfuck. :\

The FIA painted itself into a corner by coming up with this engine freeze but allowing some changes. Then they try to keep a few manufacturers happy by trying to this "equalisation". Sooner or later this will look like the knee-jerk parity changes made by WTCC to equalise performances among different cars.

I think youre right. The lesser engines are allowed to make the same changes that the big 3 have done to ''énhance reliability"" The problem is how do you gauge what change improved where? Cause iirc the freeze ''only'' covers the engineblock and head. I think there are 2 other problems too;

1. at the time of homologation, there already was a small difference in hp as some designs are simply better than others
2. It is still allowed to develop lubricants and anciliaries wich could enhance power as well.

I think the FIA should carefully vieuw what power is gained by the above 2 points and what power is gained with the reliability enhancements. The former difference they should leave untouched while i could understand why theyd allow a change in the latter.

But reading mosleys plans about ''equal engine power'' and single engine suppliers i dont trust it one bit.

I was never a fan of the engine freeze, but the FIA suffers from a severe case of attention deficit disorder.

The FIA has got to be the most inconsistent and poorly manged sporting organization in existence. What would have been ideal is not to have made a regulation that wouldn't be followed through to begin with, secondly, there should be at least be more time and consistency between these rule changes. Standard engines, engine equalization, whatever they decide put into regulation to 'keep budgets low'- I'm very skeptical the FIA can follow through with it before we see an entirely new engine rule again next year.

Yes Max knows what he's doing.

And people thought his love of S&M could be separate from his professional life.

done right and i support it
ofcourse it wont be done right because a)FIA arent that good and b) its a difficult task

I'm flaggerbasted. Just because Flavio is such a whiner, MM is obliging him with this latest lunatic change in regs. he usually comes up with. Wonder if he would have been so obliging if it was the Mercedes engine that was behind in power and Ron had asked him to bring in the equalization measure. Yeah, right....

It seems McLaren and BMW are not so much worried about improving performance, but to have an open discussion in the technical group. In other words, to find out what has allowed Renault to catch up so soon. The rest is Ron's talk. Symmonds has stated that there has been no performance gain, that their development has been directed at cutting costs. Until Renault has learnt to exploit the loophole that allowed McLaren and Ferrari to have a 30 bhp advantage over the course of the season I did not hear any complaints.

Exactly.

And what if, say renault tries to homologate a radical different engine within the current rules? Perhaps they found magnetic valve control works, they homologate the engine and at the start of the season it turns out they have 150 horses more than the opposition. Would mosley change the rules again to ban that engine?

Providing it cut costs probably not. But be sure it would be followed by others. That, IMO, is the point. To find out what it is by bringing it to the technical group.

If only the bloody engine freeze was policed properly in the first place there would not be this problem. Now the FIA has to fix up their 'reliability' upgrade mistakes.
What a joke.
Not to mention Mosley barely gave the teams notice in the first place when the engine development was being frozen.

Dream on. Options for the new format are 1.3-2.2 litre, 4 or 6 cylinder engine.

This move is surely a tacit admission that the FIA hasn't been able to put in place a robust enough process to tell the difference between a reliability upgrade and a performance one.

But now we are expected to believe they can succesfully police 'equality' amongst engines?

Also, how does this fit with FOTA? With Ferrari (and therefore probably force india and possibly torro roso), McLaren and BMW all against it seems unlikely that FOTA had the requisite majority to request a change. So have RBR and Renault lobbied the FIA independently of FOTA? Will this cause divisions in the organisation?