The bizarre patern of the current F1 season leads me to put the question to the forum .

Over the last few decades several sports have been the subjects of stories of attempts by (mainly) far eastern gambling syndicates to alter the results of major events and championships, particularly with the increase in interest in F1 "East of Suez" is F1 being bent ?

Put your money on Ferrari.

I find it odd, and wonder if it is deliberate, that F1 is one of the few sports that doesn't have a gambling company involved as a team/overall sponsor. Maybe it's due to the fact that so many kids watch it - you can drink Mumm champagne and smoke Marlboro but whatever you do don't gamble

Obviously, it's a set-up.

The plan is to all year create the impression of Ferrari favouritism, making people bet on them, only to then fix the championships for McLaren and Lewis right at the last moment.

Watch it happen!

The FIA and stewards modify the race results with such alacrity and frequency- there is no way I would bet on a race.

But what about the stewards and the FIA?

F1 is very risky for betting in general. I know because I usually have a punt on a race. I've made some small money last few races but so many things can happen. The live timing is a must!

How could you fix a race? In football and tennis you have only 2 teams. In horse racing you can dope the horse.

But in F1, how do you control all the other cars? Even if you bribe a steward, there is only so much you can do.

Also, the liquidity in betting on F1 is very, very low. It would be very difficult to get good odds if you were a syndicate because the price would move too much. Just have a look on Betfair to see what I mean.

I think that idea is just way too crazy to be true. The CRH and Bernie would do everything they could to inhibit that. Unless of course they were running it themselves. But for that to happen the profits had to be so incredibly highconsidering the potential risk that i cannot believe it. The amount of money involved here certainly would be so obvious on the prosecution's radar, that it would be absolutely impossible to hide it from them.

I can imagine the CRH being pretty happy about a very close fight to the end though. I wouldn't be surprised if they encouraged the FIA to manipulate the championship so that it wont be sealed before we hit Brazil.

The only time I've ever wondered this in any serious way was when Hamiltons car suddenly lost power at Brazil last year. I wondered for a moment.. but nothing more.

Sorry if I'm being anal here but what is the risk? Sure, the CRH could get found out but what's the likelihood of that? Pretty much every single person working for BE is one of his cronies (and there are only 200 at best). Such a scam, if it was taking place, would only involve one or two at the very top surely. I mean, it took 30 years for the press to find out that Mosley was shagging whores whilst strutting round talking German and that involved scores of outside people (the prostitutes). Also, without making any suggestion of impropriety, didnt/doesn't the CRH also own (a stake in?) a gambling firm?



Surely someone very close to Mateschitz could take a nice bet on the finishing positions of Toro Rosso and RBR...

Simple explanation, he hit the kill switch! Everyone knows this!

I remember when a Far East betting syndicate turned off the floodlights at a Premership match. Imagine that happening in Singapore! Yikes

I had similar feeling when Bourdais' car failed to start at Monza... for some reason I thought that was really OTT...

Also Bridgestone raising questions about why they were asked for a single wet tire... because a Force India has led a race...

Well, the CRH are very rich people prone to regular adjudication. If they were caught doing something like that they'd soon after be poor people living in a prison. Why would they risk to do that if it wasn't for insane profits? And that again would only be possible with insane amounts of money being involved. Prosecution would find out really fast. I'm pretty sure they now less obvious ways to rip off idiots.

I agree entirely but, depending on the number of people involved (were something like this to ever take place) that 'if' could be quite remote. Nevertheless, I entirely agree with your thought process.

Ha! Fear the wrath of undersquare... you're doomed!

;)

D O O O O O M E D

actually rolf isn't as amusing as Slate. Where is he anyway? Maybe if I write BRAZIL BUTTON he will magcally appear.

Or you just jinxed it and the BUTTON will again press itself in BRAZIL...

Hopefully Slate will be back to share in Hammy's triumph. I'm hoping to find out how he copes

(I should explain I've made sure Lewis will win btw, by putting a few quid on Felipe and Robert )

Smart. I have 40 on RK since May at 40:1, so that would be quite nice.

Hell, I probably just jinxed that one by telling you...

I doubt it. As said, compared to Tennis too much risk and not enough return. More importantly, I think you'd struggle to get a well paid driver bribed to throw a result and potentially a championship. In tennis big money goes on games with relatively small impacts on world championship positions etc.

I made money on Lewis blowing title last year. I wanted to him to win but after what happened in china it became profitable to trade by backing kimi and alonso too so i did. Lewis winning it would have one me a small amount due to price change, Lewis blowing it won me a lot more.

Still I wonder why no gaming sponsor. MotoGP has one so why not F1?

Coral Eurobet did sponsor Arrows until their demise and I believe Red Bull carry some BWIN logos on their overalls. The fact is that F1 betting accounts for a very small percentage of turnover for bookies it doesn't make a lot of sense being a headline sponsor. Advertising with Moto GP will reach a decent sized audience but will cost a small fraction of F1.

As for race fixing? Very very unlikely, as the prize money at stake for the top teams would outstrip any potential gabling winnings. Believe me, I make my living around gambling on F1, as a consultant to bookmakers, writing about gambling on F1 and of course doing it. It is possible to make a good profit betting on the sport but trying to get a decent sized bet on is not easy. When I say a decent bet, I struggle to find bookmakers that will take a bet that would cost more than a few thousand pounds.

To fix a race would cost a lot and the only possible outlet for the laying of the huge sums required to justify it would be with illegal bookies in the far east, who, to my knowledge, are not interested in F1 as the turnover is not big enough. Football, yes, there are fixed games, and horse racing of course. Tennis and snooker are eay to fix as there are just two players and only one needs to throw a match to make a decent profit for a very small cost. There is a possability that a struggling backmarker team could try and pull a stunt to win a match bet, but the liquidity really isn't there. Ar at would be smelt a mile off and I have never heard any rumours of fixing.

I think we can rest assured that if Hamilton makes a mess of the first corner in Shanghai this weekend, it is not because Ron Dennis has $20 million on Massa to become champion, even if that would get hm his fine money back!

40:1, that would be nice.

He's on 21:1 atm.

Isn't every major sport?

Recently in Singapore, Mark Webber had a glitch occur whilst downshifting which led to his retirement. Turned out it was a subway line under that part of the track causing electrical interference. Got me thinking, before this thread, if it's that easy to mess with the cpu, maybe Hamiltons car losing power in Brazil last year was a similar situation but deliberate.

When making bets, there are all sorts of odds available, which lap someone retires; Mark Webber, Nelson Piquet in Singapore for example. Who is first retirement, when safety car is deployed etc.. check it out on link below

http://www.oddschecker.com/motor-sport

With that many variables F1 as a sport opens itself right up to be manipulated for financial gain. Even the drivers can be bought. Nelsons retirement in Singapore was incredibly lucky for Alonso and had many in the pitlane talking. It's not like it hasn't been done before in other sports, particularly by the Italians in their football league not so long ago...

I'd thought about this but was too scared to post it!

To me, the 'fixing' seems too obvious now to simply be a favour from Max to Luca.

And when the betting stuff happens in football its always crude stuff like keepers blunders or refs shockers.

Its the obviousness which is the hallmark of it.

Perhaps, therefore, it's the betting sydicate who is behind Spankgate...

ps. Hopefully the syndicate will want Button to be WDC next season...

...or you just jinxed it and BUTTON will win in BRAZIL
Now that might be worth a punt !

More or less OT - I distictly remember before the start of the 2006 season looking at odds for the WDC. Alonso was 50-1 and Fisichella 33-1.
I thought : "These are damn fine odds - I might have to put down 50 squids....on Fisichella!"

The only bizzare thing about betting on F1 is the number of ways in which, between Hamilton's impetuous temperament and the mores FIA, the Championship can be lost!

Actually it's exactly the opposite, the essence of "good" match fixing lies in discreteness.
Not the keeper blundering or disallowed goals but in a midfielder letting an opponent slip by at exactly the "right" time or a player that deliberately collects a yellow card in exactly the 13th minute.

Getting the result you want can be important, but also the margin by which a game is won and when certain events happen in a match.

There are lots of interesting books about this, recently Canadian Declan Hill wrote a book on it too, it's called The Fix.

As to match fixing in F1 for gambling purposes, not likely, there's no potential for making real money with so few events.

Oh believe me, in F1 the FIX is fully there. Fully operational.