I hold that formula one is artificially related to countries. Drivers claim to be representing their country and it is nothing of the sort. I remember the great Niki Lauda being asked who he raced for and he declared it was for himself and ferrari [at the time].

I would rather have grands prix being named after the circuit so instead of the British Grand Prix it would be named the Silverstone Grand Prix. Further, on the podioum after the race, behind the drivers, the flags of the TEAMS they drive for would be raised. Not a sign of national flag or anthem to be heard.

Motor racing is a professional, capitalist sport and it should held that way.

Do I think that Germany or Italy or Britain is special or great because of Schumi, Ferrari or "Nige"? No.

Where they come from is incidental. Just look at the Ferrari team today and recently - Brits, a German, a Frenchman and at one stage the car was BUILT in the UK! Italian? Yes, but.......

Lets hear it for the Interlagos Grand Prix, Monte Carlo Grand Prix, Spa-Francochamps Grand Prix....

And PLEASE!!!!! Felipe, get rid of that damned racing suit dressed as a flag!!!

And to the drivers - get rid of your helmets in the national colors, its BS!! After all, most of you do not live in the country you purport to represent and most of you never return to live after your career has ended.

Can't say I agree with your points - I don't like nationalism, but attaching drivers and tracks to countries adds interest and value to it IMO - but it would be indeed very handy in getting rid of all these annoying nationalistic fans...

most drivers during the year (except when theres a race or test in their country) are lucky to even be in that specific country (eg brazil) probably 50 days a year,due to racing,sponsor commitments,testing,and other such things,so its a bit hard for you to say that they should live in the country they represent,when most of the time theyre flying round the world so they can drive racing cars!

Ban fan nationalism. For the rest, I don't know. Mercedes said she wanted to have an almost all German team... I don't like this kind of nonsense.

So yes, ban European nations... but what language would we speak? English? No sane elector base would vote for that. Teach Europeans 3 or 4 languages? I don't see how. So nationalism is here to stay – indeed it exists since Homo sapiens ever existed (I am not talking off the top of my head: I actually know what I am talking about). It is ugly and nasty, but it is one of the driving forces of humanity.

So ... ban humans?

If you think F1 is too nationalistic now, you should read up on Grand Prix racing in the 1930s if you're not already familiar with that era in racing. Mercedes and Auto Union proved beyond the shadow of a doubt that nationalism and professionalism are not mutually exclusive.

I like the fact that Grands Prix are named for the country rather than the track. Mention the "Hungaroring Grand Prix" or the "Magny-Cours Grand Prix" and you'd probably get either blank looks or perplexed sneers from people who don't follow the sport that closely (and from many of us who do). Identifying the race with its host nation gives it automatic relevance and recognition with a wider range of people.

national championships have regions too. its less devided than it was in the past, but it adds to the sense of adventure in the sport, and the romance

seems to me its called the 'world championship'. if they travel all over the globe it stands to reason to name the host countries.

Very good post, I feel the same!

What's made me to like drivers or teams over the years hasn't been anything nationalistic related. When I started following F1 in 1986 Stefan Johansson from Sweden was racing, but I cheered for Piquet! I liked the colours of his helmet and the Williams car and he was from Brazil which was an exotic country to me.
I liked the Ferrari cars too, for the beautiful red colour and the tifosi's passion evident at races in Italy.

In sports like football or ice hockey I cheer hard for Sweden though, but in those sports the teams are basically representations of the nation in a different way than F1. In F1 I see individual strengths and characters of the drivers, rather than country of origin.
That we haven't had a swedish F1 driver on the grid since Johansson doesn't bother me at all!

However, I can't vote in the poll unfortunately, since I don't agree with either option. There should have been a third option like "Nationalism not important" or the standard "other".
If people feel affinty to some driver or team due to nationalism it's fine with me. If it adds some extra character and spark to F1, like brits emotions for LH, italians for Ferrari, or spanish' for Alonso, I think it's great for the spectacle (as long as it doesn't go OTT...)

"Eradicate Nationalism"

Sounds like a good way to start a war...

Imagine

There's nothing wrong with having different nations and different cultures. The World would be a boring place if we would all be the same. And there's nothing wrong with being proud of your country, heritage and wanting to speak your country's language. The problem is when you get a sense of superiority just because of your nationality.

As for F1, I have never seen him as a nationalistic sport. In the Olympics we usually root for people from our own country (I do, at least), to a certain extent it exists in F1 as well, but then I have seen many Germans supporting Mika, I have known Finns and Spanish supporting Michael against Häkkinen/Alonso etc. It's more about sympathy than nationality in F1. But those are usually the hard core fans. The casual fans mainly go after natioanlity, if their country has a driver in F1. I don't see anything wrong with that. And I don't see anything wrong with drivers representing their country, whether they have patriotic feelings or not. And I don't think each one of them thinks or has to think the same way as Niki Lauda.

I don't think it's something you can 'eliminate' but the kind of condescending claptrap we (Britons) hear about Lewis Hamilton from ITV and the like is extremely tedious.

And it goes without saying the racist abuse directed at Hamilton earlier this year from some fans is not acceptable and should be stamped on.

But there's nothing wrong with rooting for your home team/driver/engine builder/whatever.

Why do you think the drivers shouldn't race for their nations but the teams should? With your view on this you should rather want them to raise the flag of the teams main sponsor and play that sponsors corporate tune on the podium.

Conceit, arrogance and egotism are the essentials of patriotism. Let me illustrate. Patriotism assumes that our globe is divided into little spots, each one surrounded by an iron gate. Those who have had the fortune of being born on some particular spot consider themselves nobler, better, grander, more intelligent than those living beings inhabiting any other spot. It is, therefore, the duty of everyone living on that chosen spot to fight, kill and die in the attempt to impose his superiority upon all the others.
The inhabitants of the other spots reason in like manner, of course, with the result that from early infancy the mind of the child is provided with blood-curdling stories about the Germans, the French, the Italians, Russians, etc. When the child has reached manhood he is thoroughly saturated with the belief that he is chosen by the Lord himself to defend his country against the attack or invasion of any foreigner. It is for that purpose that we are clamoring for a greater army and navy, more battleships and ammunition.
An army and navy represent the people's toys.

Emma Goldman.

Christ, lighten up.

Are all those voting "eliminate" happy to see Ferrari painted green?

Patriotism, along with Religion have been responsible for pretty much all wars. It is when people get themselves into gangs, they feel the need to impose themselves on others. The Catholics hate the Protestants, the Muslims hate the Jews, the Brits hate the French, the Dutch hate the Germans and everyone hates the Americans.

What we need to do is set up one great big gang of Human Beings, so that we can all get together and kick the shit out of Aliens when they show up.

God, Emma Goldman sounds like a barrel of laughs. I take it this is a quote?






This is a sport. Its entertainment. Renaming the British GP is not going to stop any wars.

Nah, not for me, sorry I don't fit your stereotype.

IMO it's people like you, who see everything black and white and who tell us we're something we're not, who are the real danger to society.

Now excuse me while I go wave my Webber flag. And no I'm not an Aussie.

A man after my own heart. I agree 100%, I've never understood all the stupid nationalism, especially given that the average racing driver is as altruistic and loyal as a cat. I think it is just a ploy to ensnare the weak minded. Lauda had it completely right.

Yes - for goodness' sake, never think about anything, never question, never use what intelligence you were born with.

It's all too much effort, isn't it?

If it's entered by a British team...

But racing colours go back to an Edwardian age of imperial identity - should that be relevant now?

Let sports represent whatever people feel they represent. But I'd rather see Renault as a French team than an ING team.

Dream on... Lets eliminate greed all together and put an end to world famine.

As it happens, this is utter nonsense, and is a premise routinely adhered to by people who havn't really looked properly, and simply accept what appears to be true (because, in this case, the myth has been perpetuated throughout the ages.)

The above statement says that if we were to eliminate patriotism - or a sense of national identity - and religion from society, there would be no wars.

I contend their would, as there will always be those who wish to control others. This is what causes every single war, not the excuses of religion and nationalism.

back to the original post - what a silly idea. Let's ban the World Cup while we're at it, and the Olympics, too.

It's a sad time when one is made to feel that it is wrong to be proud of your nationality.

incidentally, i like the 'Lauda had it right' comment posted somewhere below: he raced with a helmet that carried his national colours.

Why not English? If foreigners wern't so damn lazy and obstinate they would realise English has been the superior and dominant language of the world for hundreds of years and change over immediately



Natioanlist...me...I have no idea what you mean

What we have here is a very sensible and thought-provoking post, which is met with a variety of rather silly and thoughtless ones which drag the thread away from the original topic without actually addressing the issues raised.

C'est normal, hein?

No it should not be eradicated, I love my country and seeing a driver represent my country is fantastic. You relate better (at least initially) to someone from your own country normally. For me I have a team that I support above it all in the shape of Williams, but I also support Lewis, and in the past have supported Nige and Damon (Damon for me was more than just because he was British). I want to see Jensen in a good team more than I would root to see someone who wasn't British up there. Most of us like to see our country triumph in anything, it brought you up, you live in it and it's a big part of your life.

As for stopping them wearing their national colours, why shouldn't they? You have no idea what they think, look at how Lewis felt winning at Silverstone, or how Felipe was winning at Interlagos. Fred would give almost anything to win in Spain. I like to see them show their pride in where they come from, especially when Jensen goes for the English helmet rather than the Brit one.

Nationalism? nothing wrong with it, nothing going to get rid of it.

Nationalism proper would be celebrating that people have different approaches, different thoughts, different perceptions, whatever. Not an attempt to impose one on another. It is largely irrelevant in motor racing in that every operation is a multi-national effort but you can't deny that people will associate more - be it positively or negatively - with someone from their own country. Hence Bernie trying to get a German driver to nail the RTL market, the sudden upsurge in interest in Spain that previously concentrated on their bikers and so on and so forth.

Would you agree that it's primarily a historical relation, that only became what can perhaps be labelled artificial much later on? It may very well be artificial right now, especially within Europe where there is a large number of Grand Prix venues within less than a day driving of each other.

Does anybody know how the FIA is involved in this, it is after all structured mainly on the basis of national clubs and organisations from which drivers get their racing licenses. Recently Dutchman Robert Doornbos raced under the flag of Monaco for a number of years because that is where he had received his license.

Eliminate Nationalism? That's a bit optimistic!

How exactly? Renaming a GP and making the drivers change their helmet designs is not going to make a difference.

And for what purpose? Because you don't like it? Or because you associate Nationalism with war?

Humans are naturally territorial so nationalism will always be around us...until we evolve out of it.

See you in a few million years

Gosh, there certainly are differing views.

I am a purist and loved racing almost from the cradle - my mother was a great fan of Jack Brabham and the first toy I received as a little boy was a racing car.

So my perspective is that motor racing has been spoiled by the expansion from people who sought it out to those who watch it as they would anything else.

Formula 1 could be an example of what is good and not cosying up to where the big money is.

Bernie Ecclestone points fingers at Silverstone yet just look at the atmospheric conditions at Shanghai and that half the stands were empty and the attitudes of non-racing people there. And that probably most people in China have never even heard of Graham Hill or Stirling Moss and could care less!

Formula 1 is also doing a disgusting thing and is alligning itself with countries that civilized people would not want to live in - China, Bahrein, Abu Dabhi, Singapore and so on.

We have lost places such as Zandvoort and Kyalami and Watkins Glen to what? Tilke designed stadiums in countries that are anything but respectful of human rights. This is selling one's soul to the devil.

Amongst the attitudes I loved most is that of Gilles Villeneuve and Niki Lauda. Gilles never cared about the championship and do you know who I think naturally harbors a similar attitude but is required to do differently? Lewis Hamilton.

I am not a supporter of HAM but I thought that attitudes following his first corner action at Mount Fuji was sad. Villeneuve would have been smiling.

And Niki Lauda - he never took himself too seriously, gave a way all the Silverware he used to win to people in the team and others, and is one of the most courageous and bravest souls to grace grand prix racing.

Neither of these two were Canadian or Austrian in their career, they were professional racing drivers and allowed to be who they were.

A couple of weeks ago in the Autosport there is an article on Mike Hawthorn and they described him a mix of Lauda, Hunt and Fangio. Likened to James Hunt - for me that is the greatest compliment a driver can be paid.

As a child of the 70's I can without reservation say that we still miss you James and sincerely hope that Freddy makes it in racing.

Why wouldn't civilised people want to live in Bahrain, Abu Dahbi or Singapore? They are very affluent modern places and would love to visit them...

The only way I would support the races being renamed to their track, not country is to stop the movement from the classic circuits to the Tilke-dromes in countries that don't care for F1.

That being said, the Singapore GP is a future classic and look forward to next-year's race. The others? Don't care for them - they have no character.

Rather simplistic to think "nationalism" will go away simply because all country references and acknowledgements are eliminated from F1.

Besides, nationalism isn't the real problem, it's the rabidness with which fans follow drivers and teams. If you want to make F1 a friendlier place, then put all drivers in white overalls and helmets, and rename them John Doe 1, John Doe 2, etc. Then paint all the cars black, and rename the teams Team A, Team B, etc.

That would be lovely. I'll bet Mosley wished he thought of this.

Enough of this one world crap, leave that to the Clintons and Obama...

Disliking nationalism is not about supporting a worlwide government, or a false and impossible sense of union between all mankind, but about believing every individual is himself and not a national stereotype.

What a BS.

BS part 2. Since when did this board become communist?

so what would be the motivation to work hard and invent new things?

Yes. This discussion is all about communism and capitalism.

Nationalism is a form of allegiance, as is supporting a competitor in sport. So I don't really see nationalism as inherently undesirable, either in sport or in a wider context.
The problem, as ever, is with people, not the concept.
In purely F1 terms, I'd rather see the cars in national colours than sponsors logos. In the long-term, that might even help solve the problem of the runaway juggernaut that is F1 finance.

btw, Britain IS Great, it says so in the title!

Unfortunately wars are fought over it, people die for it and politicians cling to it. As long as politics holds nationalism dear I doubt a sport could eradicate it's use, or indeed should.

The foundations of all top level sport depend upon nationalism. The Olympics, The World Cup etc. Noticed how these sporting events are held in the highest regard the world over? If F1 keeps going the way it is maybe A1GP will eventually become part of this echelon.

I believe nationalism is merely a higher level of tribalism but if put to good use it can spur us on to great things and as far as sport goes I think it is nationalisms best use.

The world might be a better place without countries dividing us but humans in general being weak minded and insecure will always search out divisions between us to uphold subconcious tribalistic tendancies.

One thinks we should first get rid of this 19th Century stuff called nationalism -- some even call it patriotism, the bloody cunts! -- in real World. Sports -- any sports, not only F1 -- will swiftly follow...

Yeah, they're fine, if you're rich, heterosexual and male.

The one benefit that would have arisen from a Chanoch Nissany Grand Prix drive would have been seeing how the Bahrainis would have held on to their Grand Prix whilst banning someone because of his nationality.

You've got a French car maker, where the chassis are prepared in England, one Japanese maker whose chassis are prepared in Germany and another in England, a German maker whose chassis are prepared in Switzerland, an Austrian marketing company with chassis built in England, and a number of tax avoiding pilots based in Monaco...

Agreed. Great societies if you have cash and are not a woman. Pretty average if you are poor, female or gay.

There's nothing wrong with a bit of nationalism, as long as it's kept in perspective: Finnish, English, Scottish, Asturian, etc. flags flying in the grandstands all adds colour to the spectacle, F1 has been nationalistic since its inception. As long as it's not taken too seriously there isn't a problem, it's when it turns nasty that it becomes repugnant, people confusing a driver's fortunes with their country's pride. I don't think I need mention any names as the people in question are quite capable of damning themselves.