F1 draws most of it's "floating" followers because of nationalism. I suspect that those of us who follow F1 for the sport and not because our country has a successful driver, would not be enough to keep F1 going.
Money always decides.

Interesting article in F1 Racing about someone going to Monza clad in McLaren gear...he had no problems. For the most part there are no problems with people GOING to the races, indeed it was always fun watching the Brazilians celebrate Senna winning.

Wonders never cease....

About the last person I ever expected to see quoted on this particular forum was Emma Goldman. Not much of a surprise if it had been on TNF, but here it is a different story. I will leave it to others to google Goldman and find out exactly who she was, but having used a quotation very much like this in a graduate paper on the foundations of the New Left many, many years, to say that she was quite a character is an understatement.

I've been to Monza the past two years and have to say the Tfosi are great. Passionate Ferrari supporters for sure, but very sporting with it.

As a Hamilton supporter, I stood on bleacher with Ferrari fans up at the second Lesmo this year. I wasn't dressed head to toe in McLaren gear like in the F1 Racing article (I find dressing in team gear a bit lame) but they knew where my loyalties were.

Sure, Hamilton got theatrical boos from the Italians and Brazilians in the crowd, especially when he was on his charge through the field. But the whole day was really good natured, no matter how many beers were consumed. At the end of the race hands were shaken, backs were slapped and we all went on our way.

I can contrast this with Barcelona this year. The Spanish fans were far, far more agressive. They didn't just dislike Hamilton as a competitor, they hated him. We were at the same corner where Kovalainen crashed. The crowd initially thought it was Hamilton and were delirious with joy, high fiving, punching the air, swearing at cursing at the wrecked McLaren, even as it was buried in the tyres and beginning to look really nasty. They were generally saying that Hamilton deserved it. When they discovered it was Heikki they all booed!

It really was an ugly day where the act of being a sport supporter and going along to witnesses a great sporting event became blurred. Like all the worst excesses I've witnessed in English football.

So, I think a bit of nationalism is fine if you're supporting your countryman.

But, just like religion, fanaticism in any form is pretty awful.

I get your point, but you're about to open a whole can of worms and a really shit, redundant discussion, thanks to the people that won't get it.

I agree, I cheer on the local driver at races too - great to see the home talent win. In Brazil I'll be cheering for Massa to win, Hamilton 2nd and Barrichello 3rd!

I'm not trying to mate. Just trying to contrast different applications of what I view as nationalism in different countries. Is all my opinion based on what I saw.

Yep. Create a really threatening non existing enemy and most people will join against him. But then, that was George Orwell's solution (or rather Big Brother's solution) and it was not really nice. You're right: ours is a ganging species.

Nationalism, what Nationalism?

None! There is merely Order and Progress.

Never supported a team principle or driver from my country.

Never liked the Tifosi.

Really don't like the Hamfosi's.

There was another George who used this same fear strategy in recent years..& it turned out to not be very nice as well.

Cycling has gone that path long ago. Where did it lead it? Did it make cyclists less of a pathetic bunch of pathological dopers, liars and cheaters?

So they copied McLaren?

Wow. 2/3 F1 fans have not yet reached enlightenment!

Not to be abrasive but "banning nationalism" is a silly idea to me. I'm an American and always will be no matter what happens to this planet - or the next. To be more accurate I'm a South Louisianian. Always have and always will no matter where I live or die.

Tempest in a teapot I'm afraid.

To be more "global" in my response: look at the satanic souls who have craved "banning nationalism" for some sort of International Bankster's "New World Order" and you have some very odd company, my friends... The USA will most certainly *NOT* follow our EU cousins on this demonic idea. Thanks but no thanks.

zzzzzzzzzooooooooooooooooooooooooooommmmmmmmmm

There goes the topic of the thread over your head.

Maybe it just went under yours.

No, not at all. Not everyone is willing to just "walk away". Some are proud of the place of their birth, the place in which they live, etc., etc.

We're aware that the Europeans are "more advanced" on the concept of "banning nationalism" with the two world wars, but what, pray tell, have the biggest advocates wished to replace it with? Yep, I thought so. My response was very personal to prove a point: I don't live where I was raised and yet my emotional ties are to the place of my birth. It's no different for many and creating "Globalism" makes for pathetic creatures. I rather like the "nationalism" - if that's what you call it.

Move along; I won't try to stop you.

Such a stance can be taken on a personal level but to raise a global national sport/business above nationalism is a completly different matter and will not effect anyones personal nationalism.

What if certain British people felt it right to be hooligans when it comes to McLaren issues when it was founded by a New Zealander, had most championship wins/race wins/points with people who are not British and have a German engine? and god knows how many other parts of the cars and team resources are from other countrys.

Maybe banning nationalism is not the correct word, just not encouraging it in oximoron ways would be an improvement.

Satanic? Demonic?

Then they may be defined as scum.

That is not necessarily a reflection on nationalism; they perhaps drink beer, or tea and eat hamburgers or curry. Would you condemn all beer drinkers, tea drinkers, hamburger and curry eaters because a few of their number were hooligans?

VAR1016

Funny you should mention a "new world order" with regards to the US. Indeed it was Cheney and his cronies in the PNAC that invision a "new world order", and have set forth the idea for such as, well basically bombing the shit out of countries that don't bend over and take it up the arse by America. The "new world order" is not so much banning nationalism, but more banning non American nationalism.

As for odd company, being in the company of the likes of Dick Cheney, Jeb Bush, Lewis Libby, Paul Wolfowitz, and Donald Rumsfeld certainly is being in "odd company". I wouldn't be so proud of being American about it though.

and you think most Americans support those dick heads now ... ?

Well they voted them in at least once, and the point is that the "new world order" which was being denounced as something America wouldn't tollerate is a concept that the current administration came up with.

Drop nationalism and separate people with an electrified reply button learning-curve test.

There is nothing wrong with recognition of one's identity; call it nationalism, if you must. Problem however beggins when one starts propagating on large scale that their identity is better than anyone elses, and they have a big stick to "prove it".

You may wish to study the NWO; you'd find it's "origins" with the Crowned Heads of Europe not the USA - the muscle for these demented bankster families. Try researching Cecil Rhodes for the individual with the organization skills and pragmatic "mover" for the Rothschild monied interests. But you could go much further back to Charlemagne and the Merovingians and beyond...

Now the current gang of "neo-con"/Trotskyites are not loved by most Americans; I doubt most Americans - like most Europeans - delve into the Philosophical Ideals of a particular party. Many voted for them and many still support them until you begin to "peel the onion" with/for them, if you will. I imagine it's like the European Union (Europaische Wirstshaftsgemeinshafts - look that one up if you will...)

gone off topic of racing a bit here.