So now Lewis has what's popularly called a 'soccer mom' for a managing parant? What the fu.. is there no end to this inane anti-Hamilton fanaticity

A soccer mom is completely different.

How are any of these comments racist? Or anyone who mentions a nation or nationality or family background is a racist in your book? Racism does exist of course, but it's equally disgusting to play the race card and suggest others are racists just because they dare to criticize someone you like and who happens to be black.



This is the only quote I could see as remotely "racist", but then Anthony Hamilton is a racist himself because he too said their race was an asset when they were fighting their way up the ladder...

Massa's parents seem to be getting more air time than Hamiltons at the moment. They're not even managers.

Why do people ignore that? Or are people just deparate to find anything they can to have a go at Lewis?

And what is Anthony supposed to do - ask the camera guys in advance to stop filming him during races? I guess he could refuse interviews, but why should he?

Oh the typical argument of "others do it too". What I wrote was that there are things I don't admire in Anthony Hamilton at all. Why is that so hard to accept? Do I have to unconditionally admire him or what?
FYI, I don't like self-important F1 daddys, I don't like self-important F1 managers like Willi Weber, either. I didn't like it either when Mika Häkkinen's wife used to get more air time during a race than the race itself. But here in this topic the issue was Anthony Hamilton and someone said we have to admire him. To that I answered, yes, there are things that I admire in him but there are also which I don't. I can't really understand the fuss about that statement, unless you are a fanboy and think you have to unconditionally, uncritically love your driver plus also his family, manager or whoever who belongs to him.

Anthony worked more than one job simultaneously to help Lewis get where he is today.
I respect that, he is a driven man and parent, and allowed his son to achieve what he wanted to do.
Anthony has no control the race director and the camera team.
I'd love to think that racism is not one of the reasons why people have so much hate for the Hamilton's, I can understand why people might not like Lewis much, but Anthony?
What has he ever done to deserve vitriol?

As for drivers gaining seats with bugger all effort, you still have to deliver the goods don't you?

I think drivers like Nelson Piquet JR are more open to criticism than Lewis for their seat.

At least we don't have mega-rich average drivers buying a seat these days...

*cough*





Ruining a car that I'll never have the pleasure of owning deserves a death sentence, surely?

So now we are not allowed to not fully and totally and unconditionally admire Anthony Hamilton without accusations of racism? Great!

"So much hate? "So much vitriol"? All I have said was that there are things I admire in him and there are things I don't and here we go with this racism BS. Great. Why are you looking for racism where there isn't? Is it the convenient way to put people down as "racists" if there's some criticism towards the Hamiltons?

The funny thing is last year I have supported Hamilton for the title. Things have changed then and it's not that all of a sudden I have become a racist. Grow up!

Come on guys! Leave the girlish bickering for another time eh! This thread is about Lewis and all the hardships he's had to endure to get to where he is.

Other drivers managers or Massa parents don't talk half as much.

At least as far as I'm concerned, here on german RTL broadcast. Anthony, OTOH, is omnipresent even on RTL.

And to all people who can't comprehend that not everyone likes the Hamiltons: what's the issue? Would it influence your own perception of him if all the world would hail him? If the answer to that is indeed yes, well... then that is the issue, more than some snipes from his non-fans.

These threads always degenerate into personal childish rubbish. Most people that see that Video are touched, not for the racism angle as even Anthony says it's a positive, but more to see the young Lewis at such an early age driven by the will to get into F1. His little face when he says "can you imagine what it's like to drive an F1 car" and how he asked Ron Dennis to "writ" his address down for him.

It is very cute stuff because Lewis is now in F1 dominating as he did when was a youngster.

Anthony Hamilton is a very respectful and peaceful person. He is never controversial and never apportions blame, he is focused, positive and ambitious for his son. They have a very strong bond, like Jense and John, qualities that should be admired rather than bashed.

The glass is either half full or half empty.

I don't know if it's too difficult to understand, but my impression is that CrushedDreams is talking about Lewis' effort to get into F1 that was hindered by race, rather than people posting racist comments about him in this thread.

All the examples he cited, therefore, justify his argument because you guys have no problem discussing the race and background of white drivers but always go on the defensive "No we're not racist, it's not even worth discussing...", whenever Lewis' skin colour comes into the picture.

You guys are so afraid of the matter that the moment it comes out you put your hands to your ear and start singing "lalalalalalalallaa" and hope the topic goes away. Either that, or you just wish the people who bring up the topic get banned.

I find this highly hypocritical. I'm not saying any of you are racist, what I'm saying is that you guys are afraid to discuss the race issue because you don't want to be called a racist for any of your opinions, whether this be correctly or incorrectly.

Can't you imagine that for some his race simply IS NOT AN ISSUE.

Well at least until it gets thrown at you for not finding Lewis utterly brilliant. Then it becomes an issue and of course nobody can ever prove that he's not racist.

You see, again, you're missing the point; the people in question are the people who supported him and were against him, that were either able to support his racing career and/or were his rivals/competitors on his journey to F1. We're not talking about the racism on this board, we're talking about the racism that he endured in real life.

The reason I bring up the fact that people don't want to discuss that issue on these forums IS for fear of being branded a racist, regardless of whether they are one or not.

I don't think I can put that in any simpler terms than that :\

C'mon, guys, I found the Massa as a food delivery boy in exchange for a pass to get into interlagos more interesting. ya think?

Every drivers has a story or two to tell, even the rich 2nd generation, your name might get you in the door but you still have to perform.

Ron Dennis picked up the kid with a long long term contract long time ago, what racism?

Galko877 said:
"There are things for which I admire Anthony Hamilton and there are things for I don't admire him at all."

RicardoF1 said:
"Such as?"

CrushedDreams said:
"It is likely what most of the dolts dislike about people like Anthony/Lewis.... His skin has different pigmentation then their own? and/or feel that they have been slighted from this aspect themselves (oh the irony).

Get over it folks Lewis (and his father) are here to stay; they deserve it."

Maybe CrushedDreams did mean what you said, and did not intend to paint Galko877 as a racist, but it certainly didn't read very well.

I'm not afraid to discuss race when that is the subject. In this case it wasn't. It wasn't something that crossed my mind when I wrote "There are things for which I admire Anthony Hamilton and there are things for I don't admire him at all."
How CrushedDreams made a race issue out of that comment of mine it is beyond me.

Exactly.

And you are correct. That is why soon after I corrected that possible impression, explained how the response was originated and admitted that the way 'it read' was wrong. Which you left out.

I will re quote just in case you missed it: "Look, This was not my intention. I responded to one aspect/reality when I thought of Ricardo's very valid question. If you wish go back to the first responses and read each 'negative' comment maybe someone can see why. It was not my intention to paint any one, or all with that brush. The fact that I used to word 'most' WAS incorrect."

Group hug needed, nobody is racist here.

great documentary..

Its really disgusting to hear him speak about how other white kids used to call him racist names.. I can't believe this shit still goes on in a civilized world .. specially coming from these families where one can assume are well educated otherwise they would not have the means to sent their kids to karts..

Absolutely, BUT to say that the topic is off limits (or better yet; ban anyone who mentions it) is trying to hide from reality.

We don't live on the 'Enterprise' yet.

The underling tones of Bigotry (BTW skin/nationality/background/etc. doesn't always mean racism. There is a significant difference between the two.) are especially significant in most sport, and I also think 'SOME' don't even realize it, or are willing to admit it to themselves.

BTW:My view/experience arises from having been asked to get involved with a couple of corporations that understood that they needed to understand 'diversity.' Many institute specific programs aimed at these specific issues.

If you had taken more care when introducing a subject which is at best inflammatory, no explanation would be necessary, would it?

yep.. I read that one too.. I also read the one with JPM, rollerblading all around Europe to get to the races, his father selling his home and he and his dad traveling in the back of cargo planes shipping flowers from Colombia to the US..

Yeah....because you can get around Europe with rollerblades as your method of transport

Well, there are many shades of this issue. As you may know it is not always just ones skin. (Some of the words worst cases of this issue involved those with the same skin; even the same 'nationality.')

I apologized that any comment from you may have seemed 'involved'.

You claimed that I brought this here.

I then listed many examples that existed in this thread alone.

AND you yourself admit that a portion of the VIDEO ITSELF mentions this.

Yet you still 'claimed' that I brought this here. Maybe you should be apologizing to me? Better yet; just watch the video again.

Reading these forums I often get the impression that those who regard themselves as the most "anti-racist" members are those who bring up the issue at every possible occasion.

Someone says he doesn't like Lewis (but says nothing offensive), he gets accused of racism.
Someone says he doesn't agree with everything Anthony does, he gets accused of racism.

When I think about Hamilton, I don't think about his race or colour at all, only when it's specifically pointed out - I don't understand why some people feel the need to point out his race whenever his name comes up in a converstaion.

And then you go to another thread and see these "anti-racist" forum members calling other drivers every name on earth and saying miserable things about them. (I won't write examples, and I don't mean this BB only, it's a general thing on all the F1 forums.)

I'm not a hater (I don't hate any of the drivers) but if there are "MS-haters", "Alonso-haters", "Massa-haters" etc., I don't see why "Hamilton-haters" are much worse if they have nothing wrong to say about his race...

From his autobiography..

..When he moved to Austria to race, Montoya remembers being so broke that he didn’t have money for public transportation; instead, he used roller blades to get around!

Oh please. This is pretty weak. Maybe we should ask the young Hamilton to have never mentioned it either.

Go ahead keep coming at me to try to avoid reality. As you may realize I am OK with it. I am comfortable where I stand.

Using rollerblades to get around your town in Austria is a little different than using them to go to different countries to race. You should use your grammar more carefully.

you should try harder to understand.. being obvious that you cannot travel from country to country in roller blades..

No one said anyone here is a Racist/Bigot. I think some forget that A. Hamilton talks about this IN THE video. Even Lewis brings it up! The VIDEO ITSELF seems to be produced for some 'black' channel. Yet when mentioned what this might of meant to the Hamilton's many are claiming race baiting.

Maybe those who dislike Hamilton, for any reason, should have avoided expressing it in response to this video. This video had nothing to do with his driving, nothing to do with his ego, nothing to do with the the fact the A. Hamilton is asked many questions from the media; the main topic of this video was his 'background' and what this meant to his racing; up to the point of the video's production.

I think there's nothing wrong with Ross' understanding and everything wrong with your message:



that sure a hell doesn't imply him going to the odd race in Austria by rollerblade but gave me a good laugh thinking of a broke Juan Pablo rollerblading from Spa to the A1-ring for a race.

If only he'd kept this habit then he'd be half the man he's today and would still fit in a F1 car

if you think that can happen, you have a very creative mind.

Man, people take every little words literally here.

Can't you imagine that for Lewis, race has been, is, and always be an issue?

It's a free world, all are equally welcome to bury their heads in the sand.

As tired as I am of people playing "the race card" when it's not warranted, there are also times when the race card is in play whether you like it or not.

BRING IN KIMI`S GRANDMOTHER!

Then we were talking about different things, sorry if I misunderstood you.

I understand that Lewis has had to endure racial discrimination in his life.

What I don't appreciate is being forced to discuss it here on the board. Don't get me wrong, I thankfully haven't been personally accused of racism here, I talk about those frequent at all non-fans thrown general accusations "you don't like him cause he's black".

That's simply annoying. In 9 out of 10 cases the race is brought up by his defenders out of the blue, without any relevance to the actual issue that's been discussed.

It goes like this:
- "Massa messed up in Fuji" - "Ha! you hate brazilians, shame on you!"
- "KR has had a pretty weak season" - "Ha! You wouldn't say that if his hair was brown!"
- "Alonso has made a few mistakes in the first half of the year" - "Ha! You just envy him for his pretty girlfriend!"

I don't think I could come up with any simpler examples why this kind of "argumentation" just sucks...

No matter what colour his skin, hair, eyes, house, he is privileged to have been gifted with his prodigious talent and a father who was willing to back him all the way. He is a very lucky boy but he has done well to get where he is.

I like Lewis, some don't and for the majority of those it's not because he has more pigmentation in his skin.

What might be an issue for Lewis himself doesn't automatically have to become one for me, at least I hope so.

I don't see how not discussing his skin colour on a racing board equals burying your head in the sand. I also don't discuss his sexual life or his hobbies or his taste in furniture or his favourite foods here on the board.

Why do these threads always degenerate in such a fashion.
Poster A:
'Lewis' father had to work three jobs to support his son'.

Poster B:
'So. Roberts dad had to drive him to the different countries the events were being held and they were really poor'.

Poster C:
'Yeah but Driver X was an orphan, who ran away at the age of 4, had to forage for food until the age of 8 when he started his own business of making ornaments out of pinecones.

With the little money he amassed he was able to by a pair of shoes for his poor blistered feet and some third hand clothing (he used to work semi naked he was so poor). By coincidence he overheard a conversation between a customer and his assistant (even though Driver X was only 8 and a half, he had singlehandedly managed to build his business empire to the point where he could now afford to hire an employee who was aged thirteen, would eventually be know as Driver Y and win 3 world championships.).

Back to the conversation that Driver X overheard. It was about a karting tournament held across the Atlantic over 7000 miles away. This excited him, he sold his business to Driver Y for a half litre bottle of water (Driver Y actually cheated him by drinking the original water in the bottle, that had been filtered as it meandered through rocks and crevasses’, before finally trickling into a beautiful calm clear spring, in some idyllic setting of some place far faraway that was so foreign to Driver X and his life of hardship and calamity. Driver Y had replaced this with rain water) a packet of chewing gum and small packet of digestive biscuits, packed a few things and set off on his journey.

He walked twelve hundred miles to the coast and still had an almost full bottle of water (he had only taken a few sips) and 3/4 of his digestives remained. He was only 8 years and 6 months but had mastered the art of conservation and economy (this would come in handy later in his career). Driver X walked into the water and began to swim. After swimming continuously for 2000 miles he hitched a ride in the mouth of a humpback whale. He had grown tired and cold and knew the whales' mouth would be warm. Driver X was only 8 years and 6 months but he was a fighter, a survivor and extremely intelligent.

3000 miles of swimming and a few rides on the backs of some generous dolphins and porpoises Driver X had reached the coast. What an epic journey. He had had to use the excellent navigational prowess he had picked up by observing migratory birds. 600 miles into his trek he met a poor hobo on the side of the road, with no arms and one leg and with a foot that was missing a little and big toe. Driver X had experienced hardship and his heart swelled with sorrow, he immediately offered the hobo his bottle of water and digestives (Driver X had been a little greedy by drinking 1/4 of the water and eating half the digestives since he had set off over 6000 miles ago). The hobo was a little insulted at first as he didn't want pity. He shouted and cursed at Driver X, he'd have shaken his fist but alas he had no arms. Driver X eventually managed to calm the hobo, who accepted the water and biscuits and thanked Driver X.

700 miles later Driver X has arrived at the karting tournament, he sees a man consoling a boy. It turns out that the boy has hurt his arm and is unable to drive. Driver X offers his services and scores a win a pole and a second place. He has been noticed and receives sponsorship which leads him to the path of F1.'

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Granted it does seem that Robert had the most difficult time, but this isn't a competition about who gave up the most to get to where they are now.
There will always be someone less well off than another. Each will have their own stories to tell of burdens and obstacles they had to overcome. There are probably those out there thinking Robert had it relatively easy compared to them.

Obi

Obi:

[2]

Willi is not related to Michael.


Cooper

Apologies for the late reply, but yeah, I know what you mean. The thing is, sitting on the other side of the fence, it's also easy for us to not take it as seriously as it might be. Sure some people may be more sensitive to the issue than others, and I definitely agree that some people just bring it up as being the only reason behind a certain person's difficulties etc etc. I'll stick with you on that one.

Dude, chill out, stop being so defensive.

I said "I would love to think..".

I did not say "it is because they are racist.."

I didn't accuse you or anyone here of racism.

I just don't see why people don't like Anthony.

Good stuff Obi.

These discussions always remind me of this classic sketch: http://www.davidpbrown.co.uk/jokes/monty-p...rkshiremen.html

Funny read

I agree with Gareth. Thursday's FIA press conference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo