That makes sense. If the rear wing were simple, it couldn't have gone wrong since development/CFD/windtunnel. If it's complex, it can always be made better .

As I said: if there are problems you will hear a lot of excuses, and maybe after Melbourne you will get some answers. I can't remember McLaren being so specific in their public releases before, it's unusual for them.

I can't imagine how can you make high downforce rear-wing with the restrictions we have until you break all of the rules of course. If you look for downforce you should look in different areas imho.

I think McLaren is still learning about their new car, they might not be the quickest at the moment! However, McLaren can turn things around quickly! We may well see a different car in Aussie!

Now we know that the car is fast, fastest today. They just need more downforce at the back, a new rear wing will take care of that.

As far as I know it was late run by Hekki, exactly the same as it was yesterday - go out at the end of testing day when there is a lot of rubber and do quick lap in a very short stint.

I think single laps are the least important factor in those tests. Fast and consistent laps in long stints - that's what seems to be most important. And AFAIK Ferrari already have it.

Also, I think the 08 rear wing used today stimulates 09 downforce level! it may not be accurate, but i think McLaren are clever enough to understand what they are doing!

Ok Ferrari fanboy, we know that Ferrari is already the fastest and most reliable. There will be some good laughs in a next few days

Stimulating

If it is only simulating 09 downforce levels then why not use the 09 wing?

May be McLaren found something wrong on their 09 rear wing yesterday and now waiting for new parts to arrive!

It sounds like there is a new high downforce 09 wing that's not available/being revealed yet.

thanks for your correction!

That's the point. There is a problem, the real question is how serious is it.

The problem is ---- MP4-24 is not the quickest(09car) at the moment, I am sure McLaren are working flatout to fix it!

If the current rear wing is fairly basic, as a pundit has reportedly said, then I don't see the panic. It's February, the launch car was, according to McLaren engineers, designed way ahead of schedule and I imagine they've got a fair few new parts lined up for it.

I am finding the few people that seem to be delighting themselves by predicting a season of misery for the team, based on some paint and an old wing, quite amusing though. Carry on

Yeah, everyone is trying hard to fix their cars under the new rules! The point is, who could fix quicker than the others! Guess which team had the fastest development rate last year? McLaren

Errr i have to gice the development award to Renault in fairness, their car whent from total junk to resonably good over the season...

How bad would it look, if the wing was suddenly ready for tomorrows test, coincidentally the SAME day lewis gets in the car. Crys of favoritism will be unleashed. By the way, Whitmarsh outlined the plans in the tests a few weeks back, and Barcelona was the aero test, jerez was always kers. No need to worry about what wing they use and dont use, after all they arent gonna throw a wing on the car that will give them meaningless data, it IS testing they need data.

The wing they have been using is just a basic unshaped plane, the new wing i think will be more curvaceous like everything else on the car.

I expect McLaren to be in the Top 3 (regarding teams, not positions) inside 0.6 sec to the fastest car at the beginning of the season. That would be a good starting point, if the car has good reliability.

And I expect the car will suit to Hamilton much more than to Kovalainen. McLarens are not for every drivers and driving styles. And maybe the new car is tweaked even more to the taste of Lewis, than its predecessor.

Of course the wing will be ready for tomorrows test You won't be reading any cries from me though, I don't really care what parts they're testing.

Ps. We sttill don't know what rear wing was mounted when Kova set his quick lap too.

If McLaren are having difficulties I wonder if they will opt to test for those extra days they wasn't down for?

Everything is speculation the swopping of the wings could either be good or bad news, we just don't know unless McLaren are willing to say all we do know at this moment in time is it is unnerving


Lets see what tomorrow brings....

Unnerving is the right word, exactly, seeing an 08 wing on the car was not what we were expecting. But thinking about what it means, and what Mac said, it must mean the new wing is seriously good, that they have to represent it with an 08 wing.

And now we hear Mac and RB were running around with screens and bodies trying to hide things on their cars, secrecy seems quite likely.

Sorry, I'm BMW fan and my claim is stated on the words directly from Massa. Have you heard: "car is fast and consistent during long stints" from any other driver? I don't think he would say that if he didn't feel it.

He doesn't even know is 'fast' is ACTUALLY 'fast' for all he knows, he could be half a second off the ultimate pace, nobody knows what anybody is doing. All F1 cars are fast, but a McLaren is alot faster than a Force India. Catch my drift?

So how do you know they are a lot faster than a car no one has seen yet?
Seems to me we have another level of a fan - fan kid.

I love these things. Secrets, hidings of things, speculations, we have a very interesting test season. Rule changes are entertaining.

If the macs a dud I wonder why they're going to so much effort to hide it?

this is what some guy post on the mclaren forum a sportnetwork.



anyway, i know this is a dodgy shot, but does anyone know what these things are on the side of the car?

I guess the 'major problem' with getting the tires up to the temperature might be connected with them using 2008 wing.

I thought they'd be happy about not getting them up to temperature too quickly as they had the exact opposite problem last year and destroyed there tyres too quickly

Well they aren't exactly running in 'normal' race temperatures either, but all this points to the new philosophy McLaren are taking with the 24.

I think you are reaching here, none of us know why they did it. It could be because the originally planned 09 wing is utterly horrible, and they have no idea of why the aero balance is so far out, and they wanted some heavy downforce on the back simply to see what happened.

Just being the Yang to your Yin ...

I hope the new redesigned engine cover isn't a sharkfin.

Wanna make a bet?

The current one is also a sharkfin. The engine cover of the RB5 is also a sharkfin.

Yes that would be a good reason for needing a higher downforce rear wing to carry out the tests. If it can be fixed it sounds like a good problem to have though, compared to having overheating tyres for example.

Guys, that's what testing is about - to test things (aero, tyres, KERS, ect.)
No one can know what McLaren actualy do in testing, but to be honest I'll be relieved to see new rear wing on MP4-24 soon.

SportLifePress.com reported yesterday, that Heiki was using 2009 rear wing 45 minutes before end of the session, after 89 laps with 2008 spec.

If '2 years ago' is 07, then they had a problem with using the tyres too hard, not too gently. As for 09, haven't Bridgestone brought a hard tyre to Jerez, in low temperatures? But a new compound to Bahrain, is that right? Which seems to be working a lot better than the first lot that only lasted 5 laps.

im just the owl posting what the guy said. But i think hes probably talking about 06 as you probably know, that was a design flaw rather than a setup issue, but we'll see, its only going to be the cars third real outing.

Well let's say there are two possibilities: the rear wing is simple, or the rear wing is complex. If it's simple how can it be so wrong after all the CFD and wind-tunnel development? If it's complex, it can always be improved .

Anyway Mac have mentioned a 'high downforce' rear wing, so this one is something else, an interim or temporary version. They can still test kers, systems, and even aero further forward, plenty to be getting on with, so why reveal the full monty just yet? Represent it with an 08 wing, wait for Barca to finalise the aero, no worries

Maybe they know how much DF they are gonna get form the new diffuser, and they can make that up by using the old wing????

There are so many possibilities.

according to kova, they will have a new High df wing at the next test

Maybe they are doing like what Ferrari did testing their F2004M in the winter of 05-06 which led to the 248F1.

Basically, they are simulating how much downforce they think they are going to get from their new wing, without actually running it?

If that's not the case, then I'm not sure what they are trying to achieve.

Yep. The new high downforce wing has not yet been completed.

And Dennis & Whitmarsh being so keen and always so sincere in your opinion didn't tell fans before tests that they actually designed dummy rear-wing. They are so damn specific in test reports like never before and they forgot to say it's only dummy rear-wing at the moment, and with all the recources they have they managed to only design dummy rear-wing

It's so obvious they screwed up first version of rear-wing and now are looking for a working one (at least working in simulations).

From McLaren.com :

"A continuation of yesterday’s programme, focusing on car set-up and putting miles on MP4-24’s KERS device. Fine weather meant Heikki was able to rack up 110 laps throughout the day, including several longer runs as both the team and driver became more comfortable with the car’s balance. Without a high-downforce 2009-spec rear wing, the team opted to run with a modified 2008 rear wing. The KERS programme ran smoothly throughout the day."

I think it's more about rear tyres temps then whether or not the rear wing works or not. If it was a really hot track maybe this 09 wing would be better. I remember yesterday or the day before something about rear tyre temps but forget where, it was another forum. And then it was mentioned in this topic on the previous page.

If they can't get the tyre temps to right window, then all the tyre testing data is flawed. They obviously anticapited the problem which is why they brought the other wing just incase. So they use the other 08 wing, and then the tyre data becomes more useful. Because in the next test they will have a new wing that tries to give this same amount of downforce (or closer at least). Could be wrong but to me that makes the most sense.

well i guess we just have to wait and see how big their problems is, to resume, they need to make the cooling opening for kers a lot bigger in order for it, to work, they say the 09 rearwing doesnt create enough downforce, my quess they have problems with flowstructures, hence the flow vis. If you look at it, all the rearwings are fairly simple, and there is not much room to play with. No, what determines the efficiency off the rearwing is the bodywork in front, and which flow struc it creates, and its no secret mclaren lacks a bit in the bodywork area. That said, mclaren already stated in their pre season interview that this car was developed with a big margin, in order to keep all doors open. It was also designed with the 19.000 rpm limit in mind. They made a safe base, which they could develop on. They also said they were to develop new coolings based on the new rules(18.000rpm). So at the moment we are seeing a very conservative 09 version mclaren car, perhaps a bit to conservative for my taste.
What i exspect to see, is a complete new sidepod rearend diffuser arrangement. Mclaren said at the launch theyll do a private test before leaving for melbourne, so i exspect the parts to get introduced there.

I can remember from technical section an article about new rules and it clearly showed rear-wings possibilities are highly restricted and if you look for downforce you should look for it in different areas. That's why I read high downforce rear-wing as working rear-wing.

Anyway, no-one will convince me McLaren with all experience and knowledge designed ON PURPOSE not working rear-wing.