Well from what i understand its something to do with the rear wing, so we shall see
Oh and the front wing, that bit sounded a bit weird tho, i didnt get it
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IMO Its too risky to arrive in Melbourne with something untested, theres no in-season tested, if you dont get it 100% right you are seriously screwed.
Yea thats what i said, i always feel the last test introductions are always a massive risk, could go either way tho, double edged sword we could say
Originally posted by Owen
They also said basically no team has an obvious advantage and that it was boding for a 'classic' season... we'll see. I've heard that before. Hope so though.
They also said basically no team has an obvious advantage and that it was boding for a 'classic' season... we'll see. I've heard that before. Hope so though.
This season is likely to give us some surprises as it seems someone is bound to get things very wrong or very right with so many changes. But I couldn't be more skeptical about 'no one has an obvious advantage" talk. Even if someone has it, 5 weeks before the first GP is a bit early to reveal it. We might get a semi-clear picture of who's where at the final tests, but not sooner.
Originally posted by wingwalker
This season is likely to give us some surprises as it seems someone is bound to get things very wrong or very right with so many changes. But I couldn't be more skeptical about 'no one has an obvious advantage" talk. Even if someone has it, 5 weeks before the first GP is a bit early to reveal it. We might get a semi-clear picture of who's where at the final tests, but not sooner.
This season is likely to give us some surprises as it seems someone is bound to get things very wrong or very right with so many changes. But I couldn't be more skeptical about 'no one has an obvious advantage" talk. Even if someone has it, 5 weeks before the first GP is a bit early to reveal it. We might get a semi-clear picture of who's where at the final tests, but not sooner.
cosign
Apparently Mclaren have got a massive update coming at the last test, something 'revolutionary' that they are saving till the last moment so no one can copy
Everybody is coming with new updates before Melbourne. Ferrari has said they'll come with totaly new body parts, and so will the rest of the teams. So far testing has been about KERS, tyres and reliability. Speed has been secondary!
Originally posted by barneygumble
Everybody is coming with new updates before Melbourne.
Everybody is coming with new updates before Melbourne.
But only McLaren will use transparent birdcage.
Can't wait, March will be very interesting. Full of testing and the first race!
Originally posted by Hacklerf
Apparently Mclaren have got a massive update coming at the last test, something 'revolutionary' that they are saving till the last moment so no one can copy
Apparently Mclaren have got a massive update coming at the last test, something 'revolutionary' that they are saving till the last moment so no one can copy
but what we know for sure is that mclaren is gonna have a private test just before going to melbourne like renault. They announced it at the launch. Im quessing its for four days.
Revolutionary, my ass. Wait, there will be something new indeed : proper 2009 rear wing
Apparently it will first be tested at that air strip they went to the other week
Originally posted by AFCA
AMuS was allowed to see the simulator in Woking.
Forget about videogames and onboard camera's. Whitmarsh: ''Our simulator is more precise than the best Playstation games by about a factor of a 100.'' Eventhough you're only standing next to it you're right in the middle of the action. The violent acceleration, the ludicrous cornering speeds, the wheel on the inside of the corner that's always on the verge of blocking under braking, and there's the rear of the car showing slight oversteer each time the driver steers in - finally you get an idea on what things are really like in the cockpit.
Each crash barrier, each skidmark on the kerbstones is so very detailed. Neale explains: ''Hamilton particularly emphasises on having a simulator that comes very close to reality. Once he noticed that we forgot to place an old lean-to for the marshalls on the side of the track.''
The observer doesn't just get 'aleniated' by the world of Formula 1 optically, the 'background music' is spot on as well. The virtual Mercedes V8 sounds like the real deal. When the testdriver hits the kerbs there's an awful noise that sets one's teeth on edge. When the car hits a bump on the middle of the straight there's this automatic sharp sound. De la Rosa has been carrying out this work since 2003: ''At the beginning I started to feel funny after 10 laps.''
His ex-colleague Wurz use to suffer from sea sickness for a long time as well. Raikkonen remained sceptical till the end of his stay in Working. (Over time) the well-being of the driver improved by as much as the simulator did itself from a technical point of view. In the past the drivers had to be begged to use it. Nowadays Hamilton and Kovalainen ask: ''When's our next turn ?''
The current McLaren simulator is already the fifth generation. De la Rosa reveals: ''Nowadays I only still get a headache when I do 140 laps a day.'' This is related to the high level of concentration that the driver is demanded to have. ''I only notice the centrifugal forces when I steer in, but not for the entire time it takes me to get through a corner.'' Braking is even more extreme. The cyclorama indicates a deceleration of 5 G, but the body doesn't feel it. ''Head and eyes are not in harmony. That is exhausting.''
Each simulator is only as good as its mathematical models and its grafics that take the drivers to all the tracks on the calender. At the start it was a tool that allowed the drivers to get to know new tracks more quickly. Today though, the 'high safety cinema' is being used to puzzle out the set-up for the next race and for the designers to factor the results into their work. 70% of the development is now based on computer-assisted simulations. In 2003 that was still only 30%. Neale: ''In the twinkling of an eye we can try out five different suspension geometries.''
Things that take hours to figure out on track are done in an instant by hitting a button in the world of computers. More camber, a new engine mapping, a different weight distribution, everything's just a mouseclick away. De la Rosa affirms: ''The simultion is so good that I can notice a one degree difference of the frontwing in the driveability of the car.'' Neale: ''The simulator prevents from making mistakes in the design that would have to be corrected at a later stage.'' This saves time and at the end of the day it also saves money.
In order for the actuators of the McLaren chassis (the driver included) to move in all directions, as would happen in reality, the vehicle dynamics had to be converted to data. Engine, chassis and aerodynamics, everything's interactive in the world of figures and numbers. The biggest element of uncertainty is the tyres. Neale admits: ''It's complicated to exactly calculate the characteristics of the tyres.'' The virtual world is so precise that, at most, the laptimes differ from reality by half a second.
Each second a trillion floating-point operations have to be processed. The task of programming a new track is enormous. McLaren spends two months for doing so. Curve radiuses, values as far as the differences in height are concerned as well as the gradient of the track are the 'framework' for this. After that each millimetre of the circuit is being scanned with a laser. Shots from the vision of the driver make for the artificial horizon in the highest resolution.
Only one thing the simulator can't do. Neale: ''We do not have a mathematical model for the competition. Therefore we can only compare ourselves with ourselves.''
And there's a complaint from De la Rosa as well: ''I miss the grid girls !''
AMuS was allowed to see the simulator in Woking.
Forget about videogames and onboard camera's. Whitmarsh: ''Our simulator is more precise than the best Playstation games by about a factor of a 100.'' Eventhough you're only standing next to it you're right in the middle of the action. The violent acceleration, the ludicrous cornering speeds, the wheel on the inside of the corner that's always on the verge of blocking under braking, and there's the rear of the car showing slight oversteer each time the driver steers in - finally you get an idea on what things are really like in the cockpit.
Each crash barrier, each skidmark on the kerbstones is so very detailed. Neale explains: ''Hamilton particularly emphasises on having a simulator that comes very close to reality. Once he noticed that we forgot to place an old lean-to for the marshalls on the side of the track.''
The observer doesn't just get 'aleniated' by the world of Formula 1 optically, the 'background music' is spot on as well. The virtual Mercedes V8 sounds like the real deal. When the testdriver hits the kerbs there's an awful noise that sets one's teeth on edge. When the car hits a bump on the middle of the straight there's this automatic sharp sound. De la Rosa has been carrying out this work since 2003: ''At the beginning I started to feel funny after 10 laps.''
His ex-colleague Wurz use to suffer from sea sickness for a long time as well. Raikkonen remained sceptical till the end of his stay in Working. (Over time) the well-being of the driver improved by as much as the simulator did itself from a technical point of view. In the past the drivers had to be begged to use it. Nowadays Hamilton and Kovalainen ask: ''When's our next turn ?''
The current McLaren simulator is already the fifth generation. De la Rosa reveals: ''Nowadays I only still get a headache when I do 140 laps a day.'' This is related to the high level of concentration that the driver is demanded to have. ''I only notice the centrifugal forces when I steer in, but not for the entire time it takes me to get through a corner.'' Braking is even more extreme. The cyclorama indicates a deceleration of 5 G, but the body doesn't feel it. ''Head and eyes are not in harmony. That is exhausting.''
Each simulator is only as good as its mathematical models and its grafics that take the drivers to all the tracks on the calender. At the start it was a tool that allowed the drivers to get to know new tracks more quickly. Today though, the 'high safety cinema' is being used to puzzle out the set-up for the next race and for the designers to factor the results into their work. 70% of the development is now based on computer-assisted simulations. In 2003 that was still only 30%. Neale: ''In the twinkling of an eye we can try out five different suspension geometries.''
Things that take hours to figure out on track are done in an instant by hitting a button in the world of computers. More camber, a new engine mapping, a different weight distribution, everything's just a mouseclick away. De la Rosa affirms: ''The simultion is so good that I can notice a one degree difference of the frontwing in the driveability of the car.'' Neale: ''The simulator prevents from making mistakes in the design that would have to be corrected at a later stage.'' This saves time and at the end of the day it also saves money.
In order for the actuators of the McLaren chassis (the driver included) to move in all directions, as would happen in reality, the vehicle dynamics had to be converted to data. Engine, chassis and aerodynamics, everything's interactive in the world of figures and numbers. The biggest element of uncertainty is the tyres. Neale admits: ''It's complicated to exactly calculate the characteristics of the tyres.'' The virtual world is so precise that, at most, the laptimes differ from reality by half a second.
Each second a trillion floating-point operations have to be processed. The task of programming a new track is enormous. McLaren spends two months for doing so. Curve radiuses, values as far as the differences in height are concerned as well as the gradient of the track are the 'framework' for this. After that each millimetre of the circuit is being scanned with a laser. Shots from the vision of the driver make for the artificial horizon in the highest resolution.
Only one thing the simulator can't do. Neale: ''We do not have a mathematical model for the competition. Therefore we can only compare ourselves with ourselves.''
And there's a complaint from De la Rosa as well: ''I miss the grid girls !''
Thanks for that! Would love to give that thing a try, I would probably suck at it though 
I guess it's nothing like F1C/rFactor.
I guess it's nothing like F1C/rFactor.
De La Rosa should get a honorary membership at iRacing or at least RSCnet (when they are online again). How many simracers have asked for Gridgirls in their sims so far? Obviously this is not just another running joke, but supported by a real F1 driver! Yeah!
Thanks AFCA. That was interesting.
Sport Bild has an article about the problems with the 09 rear wing.
Nico Rosberg: "I had not the impression that McLaren is faster than us. Far from it."
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
As already known, there will be a new rear wing for the Jerez test, but that one must work, otherwise the time is running out till Melbourne. The team needs data from the new wing under real conditions as it´s necessary for the further developments of new parts.
Nico Rosberg: "I had not the impression that McLaren is faster than us. Far from it."
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
As already known, there will be a new rear wing for the Jerez test, but that one must work, otherwise the time is running out till Melbourne. The team needs data from the new wing under real conditions as it´s necessary for the further developments of new parts.
Originally posted by Mclaren4ever
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
This is probably top10 BS for this year.
Something fishy happens here!
The rear wing breaking from observation is rubbish.
Rosberg's comments are however interesting.
Hasn't there been some analysis of stint times at the last test and McLaren came out on top AFAIK? Albeit with the old wing...
Rosberg's comments are however interesting.
Hasn't there been some analysis of stint times at the last test and McLaren came out on top AFAIK? Albeit with the old wing...
Originally posted by Mclaren4ever
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
And I was called a troll for voicing my concerns relating to 2008 wing being used
One advice: don´t read and trust Sport Bild. They are full of crap when it comes to news about F1.
They invent stories and also quotes.
They invent stories and also quotes.
Originally posted by Mclaren4ever
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
The other teams are speculating that the rear aero of the McLaren is too radical and there is a danger that the wing breaks under heavy load.
Naaa...
That's easy to test.
As Ronaldo and Montoya to sit over it before every GP.
Lewis Training some English celebrities for a charity event
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7912103.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7912103.stm
I don't see Moyles making base camp, let alone the summit.
Originally posted by Mika Mika
Lewis Training some English celebrities for a charity event
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7912103.stm
Lewis Training some English celebrities for a charity event
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7912103.stm
That's the gym at the Mclaren Technology Centre.
Originally posted by Buttoneer
I don't see Moyles making base camp, let alone the summit.
I don't see Moyles making base camp, let alone the summit. You obviously don't listen to his show, the amount of training he's done is quite astonishing, he'll make it.
Lewis gave 5k to Comic Relief and promised to double it should Moyles reach the top.
Originally posted by wewantourdarbyback
You obviously don't listen to his show
Damn right!
You obviously don't listen to his show
Originally posted by Buttoneer
Damn right!
That's nice dear
Damn right!
Lewis' gesture was fantastic, I hope (and expect) that they all make the summit and £10,000 to Comic Relief will be in the bag!!
For my part I donated a tenner today via text, but I'm not as wealthy as Mr Hamilton ;)
For my part I donated a tenner today via text, but I'm not as wealthy as Mr Hamilton ;)
Just the one text from me, I'll donate more when Chris hits the summit.
any doubts about the mp4-24's aero problems will be confirmed/dismissed at the next test where force india will also be participating.
let's hope they use the 09 wing and set some indicative times!
let's hope they use the 09 wing and set some indicative times!
The long awaited and much debated 09 rear wing has arrived:
http://directo.thef1.es/tests/gallery/images/088.jpg
http://directo.thef1.es/tests/gallery/images/088.jpg
Originally posted by Timstr11
The long awaited and much debated 09 rear wing has arrived:
http://directo.thef1.es/tests/gallery/images/088.jpg
The long awaited and much debated 09 rear wing has arrived:
http://directo.thef1.es/tests/gallery/images/088.jpg
that wing is same as before , but with upward curve in the middle
Same types of wing others had in the previous season
dont know how it qualifys as high D/f wing?!
I though it was supposed to be a "high downforce" wing? Their old 09 wing looked more high downforce tbh...
I think it's high downforce one, looks huge
Originally posted by LostProphet
For my part I donated a tenner today via text, but I'm not as wealthy as Mr Hamilton
For my part I donated a tenner today via text, but I'm not as wealthy as Mr Hamilton
Nor me, but I managed to donate a tenner too.
Originally posted by Francesc
I think it's high downforce one, looks huge
I think it's high downforce one, looks huge
yeah man , that view shows how big it is!
really massive wing!
High downforce wings don't usually have the bends and curves like this one does in the middle. They are usually rectangular because effeciency isn't as important as total downforce.
But it's definately something new and looks pretty interesting! Pretty huge.
But it's definately something new and looks pretty interesting! Pretty huge.
As you said, the lateral section is a question of efficiency. It actually does not hamper the downforce which is mainly a question of camber and AOA. Thus those kind of wings which were heavily developped last year can produce high downforce for lower drag.
Thus the parameter to look at is the camber and as you can see it is big, then i think it is an high downforce wing. Simply an efficient one (well in theory), which is something we ought to wait from a 09 F1 car.
Thus the parameter to look at is the camber and as you can see it is big, then i think it is an high downforce wing. Simply an efficient one (well in theory), which is something we ought to wait from a 09 F1 car.
is the lateral section lower than other wings?
We will be on pace at Melbourne, i'm sure. Go pedroo!!!!!!!
Regards
Regards
Originally posted by sreevishnu
is the lateral section lower than other wings?
is the lateral section lower than other wings?
I believe it is, look at it's lowest position compared to the driver's head.. not sure though as I can't find any good pics from other cars (taken at the same angle)
They are very slow currently. Only 1 lap in the 22s the rest of stint was in 23s, while Ferrari is consistently in the 20s.
It's looking ominous atm. Maybe they are sandbagging, but even thats alot to allow for with fuel alone, and its highly unlikely that Ferrari are pushing at full speed either.
It's looking ominous atm. Maybe they are sandbagging, but even thats alot to allow for with fuel alone, and its highly unlikely that Ferrari are pushing at full speed either.
Originally posted by F.M.
I believe it is, look at it's lowest position compared to the driver's head.. not sure though as I can't find any good pics from other cars (taken at the same angle)
I believe it is, look at it's lowest position compared to the driver's head.. not sure though as I can't find any good pics from other cars (taken at the same angle)
if so
is that legal?
is that a loophole?
why hasn't anyone else tried that?
Originally posted by ZooL
They are very slow currently. Only 1 lap in the 22s the rest of stint was in 23s, while Ferrari is consistently in the 20s.
It's looking ominous atm. Maybe they are sandbagging, but even thats alot to allow for with fuel alone, and its highly unlikely that Ferrari are pushing at full speed either.
They are very slow currently. Only 1 lap in the 22s the rest of stint was in 23s, while Ferrari is consistently in the 20s.
It's looking ominous atm. Maybe they are sandbagging, but even thats alot to allow for with fuel alone, and its highly unlikely that Ferrari are pushing at full speed either.
I get the impression the whole balance of the car and traction/rear tyre wear depends on the new diffuser. The new rear wing on its own won't make a lot of difference. If they'e holding the diffuser till Barca then we're going to have to put up with being down the timesheets this week and try not to P A N I C
Originally posted by sreevishnu
if so
is that legal?
is that a loophole?
why hasn't anyone else tried that?
if so
is that legal?
is that a loophole?
why hasn't anyone else tried that?
I doubt it's illegal...
from the images i saw on f1-live, same angle as renault and bmw it doesnt l;ook any lower than there rear wings.
Originally posted by kids like ash
from the images i saw on f1-live, same angle as renault and bmw it doesnt l;ook any lower than there rear wings.
from the images i saw on f1-live, same angle as renault and bmw it doesnt l;ook any lower than there rear wings.
Ok, it could be just optical
Bigger pics. 
Still with the old aero pack, except rear wing.
Still with the old aero pack, except rear wing.
the sidepod holes look pretty massive for a mclaren.
Originally posted by undersquare
I get the impression the whole balance of the car and traction/rear tyre wear depends on the new diffuser. The new rear wing on its own won't make a lot of difference. If they'e holding the diffuser till Barca then we're going to have to put up with being down the timesheets this week and try not to P A N I C
I get the impression the whole balance of the car and traction/rear tyre wear depends on the new diffuser. The new rear wing on its own won't make a lot of difference. If they'e holding the diffuser till Barca then we're going to have to put up with being down the timesheets this week and try not to P A N I C
The diffuser looks like it has an updated the central section.
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