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kids like ash
Originally posted by Nobody


The MP4/18* comes to mind...

(*a shudder runs down the spine of McLaren fans)


No.
killfile
Originally posted by Arion
I'm a bit worried too, not only the times, there're also the small glitches and problems


Er, what small glitches and problems?
The Big Guns
I'm not worried at all.

Not one bit.

I've followed enough winter tests to understand this.

Come Melbourne, we'll see who fretted unnecessarily, or who was overconfident.

As of right now, none of us can say that the other person is right or wrong.
F.M.
I'm pretty confident that both McLaren and Ferrari will be front runners. The only question is who will be runnig in front of the other
vsubravet
Originally posted by Nobody


The MP4/18* comes to mind...

(*a shudder runs down the spine of McLaren fans)


Or equally horrific - The MP4-19 with the exploding Merc. grenades bolted to it; that was a horror show unrivalled in recent times by McLaren.
paffett4F1
Update from M-B HPE that I got over the weekend -

The deal with what was Honda was signed on Friday, meaning MB have been given the assurances for the season they required.

Not surprisingly a new procedure has been put in place to ensure that McLaren receive the pick of the engines, though variances should be as little as 2-3bhp.

The engine guys are expecting a few late nights to get all three teams on the grid for Melbourne.

Force India and the ex-Honda will not have KERS in Melbourne, it wasn't clear whether they will get it later.

The KERS is pretty reliable running at 40kw, and they are rapidly reducing the number of failures from the additional stresses. There is confidence that they will run reliably at full power in Melbourne, though there is still work to do.

One fairly major problem remains in that the 'battery' packs have failed the stress tests that are required to allow them to be flown to Melbourne. The worry is that if they fail on this test they could also fail in the car, so they will be beefing them up to pass these tests.

The overall impression I got was that there are some issues to solve but there is also a degree of confidence that they will be.
P1McLarenMercedes
so not really bad news from the engine side but everyone on this BB is wetting themselves one way or another about the chassis.
Hacklerf
Im am confident that Mclaren have no concerns about their pace
Clatter
Originally posted by P1McLarenMercedes
so not really bad news from the engine side but everyone on this BB is wetting themselves one way or another about the chassis.


Not everyone.
kar
Originally posted by Hacklerf
Im am confident that Mclaren have no concerns about their pace


They didn't in 2006 either. I dunno, while I don't think McLaren are in as bad a state as some here seem to be fearing, I do believe the teams that are quick all through winter testing are quick in Melbourne. And the teams that are apparently slow in winter testing, are also slow in Melbourne.

Occasionally there are exceptions to this rule, but the rule remains fairly reliable if we look back at the past 4 or so seasons.
undersquare
Originally posted by paffett4F1
Update from M-B HPE that I got over the weekend -

The KERS is pretty reliable running at 40khz, and they are rapidly reducing the number of failures from the additional stresses. There is confidence that they will run reliably at full power in Melbourne, though there is still work to do.



Thanks.

40kHz? Is there frequency involved, or is it 40 kW?

Kers does sound unbelievably difficult. The storage technology just not there yet, really. Still it's a juicy carrot, 80 bhp more than the other guy. Hope we find out more about the details as the season goes on.
Oblivion
the teams that are quick all through winter testing are quick in Melbourne. And the teams that are apparently slow in winter testing, are also slow in Melbourne.


And who tells that Maccas are slow now?
paffett4F1
Originally posted by undersquare


Thanks.

40kHz? Is there frequency involved, or is it 40 kW?




My error...now corrected. blush.gif
killfile
Originally posted by undersquare


Thanks.

40kHz? Is there frequency involved, or is it 40 kW?

Kers does sound unbelievably difficult. The storage technology just not there yet, really. Still it's a juicy carrot, 80 bhp more than the other guy. Hope we find out more about the details as the season goes on.


Fairly sure he means 40kw, yes.
killfile
Originally posted by P1McLarenMercedes
so not really bad news from the engine side but everyone on this BB is wetting themselves one way or another about the chassis.


No, just a dozen or so people are wetting themselves, for no good reason. You can't tell pace until the cars get to Melbourne. Times in pre-season testing mean nothing.
Hacklerf
To be fair i am not a McLaren fan, but i hope they are fast because its good for competition, imagine, Ferrari, Mclaren, BMW, Red Bull, Renault, Toyota all with a 10th love.gif
Kimiraikkonen
I am very concerned with McLaren this year

Kovalainenīs time 36ī and 37ī lasts laps on stint 14 laps. Too slow, i think.

Regards
Raziel
Originally posted by vsubravet


Or equally horrific - The MP4-19 with the exploding Merc. grenades bolted to it; that was a horror show unrivalled in recent times by McLaren.


Donīt worry, Adrian Newey is not with us anymore (just like Mario Illien) he is with RBR smoking.gif

So far we had only one engine-sensor problem and yesterday oil leak at the end of the day. Not to mention very good reliability in previous 2 years. So far so good smile.gif
HoldenRT
If McLaren were my team I'd be slightly worried, let's put it this way it's not the ideal winter testing so far. Even if it means nothing in reality, it feels much nicer as a fan to be seeing the car at the top of the sheets all the time. So far they haven't been near the top when running 09 wing. But there is no concrete reasons why they can't be at the top in Melbourne. Guessing and speculations mean nothing once the green light turns on for qualifying in Melbourne.
dabrasco
Originally posted by HoldenRT
If McLaren were my team I'd be slightly worried, let's put it this way it's not the ideal winter testing so far. Even if it means nothing in reality, it feels much nicer as a fan to be seeing the car at the top of the sheets all the time. So far they haven't been near the top when running 09 wing. But there is no concrete reasons why they can't be at the top in Melbourne. Guessing and speculations mean nothing once the green light turns on for qualifying in Melbourne.



u are right...its just testing right... but there hasnt really been any numbers yet to suggest the pace is there.

u can only hope that a team of their calibre has more in the locker than the other teams have in the locker...else it wont be good. im getting tired of mediocre laptimes in almost every test
killfile
paffett4F1 may have more up to date information than me, but Mclaren still aren't running with their engines turned up to 100%. They don't want to risk a car-damaging mechanical failure before the finish their testing program, and the can learn pretty much everything they want to know at 90% power.

As I keep saying, you can't tell pace from pre-season testing. They're not there to see how fast they can go, and they're definately not there to give their fans something to brag about on internet messageboards. smile.gif
Madras
Originally posted by killfile
paffett4F1 may have more up to date information than me, but Mclaren still aren't running with their engines turned up to 100%. They don't want to risk a car-damaging mechanical failure before the finish their testing program, and the can learn pretty much everything they want to know at 90% power.


How on earth do you know that? It would be pretty easy for the other teams to tell if they were doing this by analysing the engine noise.

Honestly, so far today I've seen you arrogantly mouthing off in the F60 thread and now you come up with this 90% thing out of thin air yet again. Is your username supposed to tell us something? Seems like it.
hunnylander
Originally posted by Madras


How on earth do you know that? It would be pretty easy for the other teams to tell if they were doing this by analysing the engine noise.

Honestly, so far today I've seen you arrogantly mouthing off in the F60 thread and now you come up with this 90% thing out of thin air yet again. Is your username supposed to tell us something? Seems like it.


The source from MB HPE said the engine was turned down last Jerez test, when McLewis was the fastest 09 car.wink.gif

And I suppose many other teams are testing with engines turned down.
killfile
Originally posted by Madras
How on earth do you know that? It would be pretty easy for the other teams to tell if they were doing this by analysing the engine noise.


You answered your own question. smile.gif
dabrasco
Originally posted by hunnylander


The source from MB HPE said the engine was turned down last Jerez test, when McLewis was the fastest 09 car.wink.gif

And I suppose many other teams are testing with engines turned down.


then wit a 08 wing...now with the 09 wing the force india is faster lol.gif


what if other teams are testing with engine tuned down too? or perhaps mclarens engine is at 70% while the rest is at 90% drunk.gif

ive gotta admit these honda-ish test times are beginning to get to me abit. cant remember them being at the back end of the pack during test in the last two seasons...

i guess we gonna have to hope they are sandbagging around 3 seconds per lap....that will be a whole lot of sandbagging
Gilles4Ever
Originally posted by Madras


How on earth do you know that? It would be pretty easy for the other teams to tell if they were doing this by analysing the engine noise.

Honestly, so far today I've seen you arrogantly mouthing off in the F60 thread and now you come up with this 90% thing out of thin air yet again. Is your username supposed to tell us something? Seems like it.


You should really lay off the people who actually know what they are talking about. Your ignorance is truly shining through.
se7en_24
Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


You should really lay off the people who actually know what they are talking about. Your ignorance is truly shining through.

+1
hunnylander
Originally posted by dabrasco


then wit a 08 wing...now with the 09 wing the force india is faster lol.gif


what if other teams are testing with engine tuned down too? or perhaps mclarens engine is at 70% while the rest is at 90% drunk.gif

ive gotta admit these honda-ish test times are beginning to get to me abit. cant remember them being at the back end of the pack during test in the last two seasons...

i guess we gonna have to hope they are sandbagging around 3 seconds per lap....that will be a whole lot of sandbagging


down.gif

You know laptimes have circumstances and exact reasons. wave.gif You should know what they are in the current testing, for example for yesterday. You should know what McLaren tested yesterday if you're in here not only for trolling.

And anyway testing laptimes are irrelevant.
Timstr11
Originally posted by Gilles4Ever


You should really lay off the people who actually know what they are talking about. Your ignorance is truly shining through.
+2
dabrasco
Originally posted by hunnylander


down.gif

You know lap times have circumstances and exact reasons. wave.gif You should know what they are in the current testing, for example for yesterday. You should know what McLaren tested yesterday if you're in here not only for trolling.

And anyway testing laptimes are irrelevant.


im talking about todays laptimes... i know test laptimes are irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things but frankly all we have to go by that the new car will be fast enough is mclarens track record (which isnt all that impeccable anyway) ...nothing more.
hunnylander
Originally posted by dabrasco


im talking about todays laptimes... i know laptimes are irrelevant in the bigger scheme of things but frankly all we have to go by is mclarens track record, as a hope that the new car will be fast enough...nothing more.


You're assumption is: Kova was very keen today to show to the world how good he is in the wet?

Yeah and the team was so happy about he's driving 99% near to the limits, because they have plenty of cars for testing and they love to work on wrecked cars. up.gif
dabrasco
Originally posted by hunnylander


You're assumption is: Kova was very keen today to show to the world how good he is in the wet?

Yeah and the team was so happy about he's driving 99% near to the limits, because they have plenty of cars for testing and they love to work on wrecked cars. up.gif



lol.gif im not going to argue whether test times matter or not...we know they dont.

dont be so defensive cos by the same argument we would assume so Glock was very keen today to show to the world how good he is in the wet which is why he was much faster....which is probably not true

all im saying is the mp4-24 is yet to go really fast relative to competition.

Id say though that if at the end of the last test they havent posted any impressive times at all, then id think the fans will rightly have cause to be concerned. right now its very much early doors
hunnylander
so Glock was very keen today to show to the world how good he is in the wet


I don't know, but maybe he was less cautious. Glock was landed in the gravel today. But that's also irrelevant. smile.gif

http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...9/diapo_173.jpg
The Big Guns
Originally posted by dabrasco


so Glock was very keen today to show to the world how good he is in the wet


Because, you know, his wet weather skill totally won Massa the championship last year tongue.gif
kids like ash
Originally posted by dabrasco


then wit a 08 wing...now with the 09 wing the force india is faster lol.gif


what if other teams are testing with engine tuned down too? or perhaps mclarens engine is at 70% while the rest is at 90% drunk.gif

ive gotta admit these honda-ish test times are beginning to get to me abit. cant remember them being at the back end of the pack during test in the last two seasons...

i guess we gonna have to hope they are sandbagging around 3 seconds per lap....that will be a whole lot of sandbagging


BMW! If you remember last year, BMW were at the back of every test, and every practise session until FP3 when they set a 1, 2 if im not mistaken, then could have taken pole on saturday. Its early days, everyone needs to have some patience and wait til at least Barcelona if not melbs.
Anomnader
"Well, the FIA rules say that an engine manufacturer can only supply two teams," said Mallya. "As far as Mercedes is concerned, that's McLaren and Force India. I think a special one-year dispensation, I understand, has been granted for Mercedes to supply the ex-Honda team just to keep it on the grid.

"I could have objected but I chose not to because it is good for F1. Nobody likes to see a team disappear. We had unfortunately Super Aguri disappear last year and I don't think it is good for the sport that one more team goes."


Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this different from Ferrari supplying themselves, Force India and Torro Rosso with engines?
rage2
Originally posted by Anomnader
Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this different from Ferrari supplying themselves, Force India and Torro Rosso with engines?

Ferrari has a different set of rules than everyone else smile.gif.
Seanspeed
Originally posted by Anomnader


Correct me if I am wrong, but how is this different from Ferrari supplying themselves, Force India and Torro Rosso with engines?

Mclaren aren't Mercedes. Ferrari *are* Ferrari.

I could care less, but there is a distinction.
Rockets
Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Mclaren aren't Mercedes. Ferrari *are* Ferrari.

I could care less, but there is a distinction.


why Mc arent Merc? Merc %40 share owner of Mc and i think its biggest part.
Seanspeed
Originally posted by Rockets
why Mc arent Merc? Merc %40 share owner of Mc and i think its biggest part.

Well thats certainly an argument, but I was just pointing out that there is a distinction to be made.

And dont they own more than a 50% share of Mclaren? Could be wrong about that.....
Anomnader
Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Well thats certainly an argument, but I was just pointing out that there is a distinction to be made.

And dont they own more than a 50% share of Mclaren? Could be wrong about that.....


last time I checked the McLaren website that still said 40%, that was about 5 weeks ago
hunnylander
There are some confusions on this board, thinking McLaren was back to its launch rear wing yesterday. That's false.

McLaren has shown to the public at least 3 different 09 rear wings till now. And the latest one (which I name 09C) was used yesterday.


09A (possibly the launch rear wing or very similar, used on Algarve and former Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_196.jpg

09B (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_181.jpg

09C (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_132.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...9/diapo_172.jpg
peroa
Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

And dont they own more than a 50% share of Mclaren? Could be wrong about that.....


You are ...
hunnylander
Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

Well thats certainly an argument, but I was just pointing out that there is a distinction to be made.

And dont they own more than a 50% share of Mclaren? Could be wrong about that.....


Daimler AG 40%, Bahrain Mumtalakat Holding Company 30% (wholly owned by the Kingdom of Bahrain), Ron Dennis 15% and Mansour Ojjeh 15%.
wdh
Originally posted by hunnylander
There are some confusions on this board, thinking McLaren was back to its launch rear wing yesterday. That's false.

McLaren has shown to the public at least 3 different 09 rear wings till now. And the latest one (which I name 09C) was used yesterday.


09A (possibly the launch rear wing or very similar, used on Algarve and former Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_196.jpg

09B (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_181.jpg

09C (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_132.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...9/diapo_172.jpg


I know its only for sensors, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the evolution of the front wheel hubs.

Those "C" pictures show 'spats' on the outside and the inside of both front wheels.

And BTW, the B pix show the plain 'race' hubcaps. And the first A pic shows the (outside-only) 'sensor' hubcap.

Development!
KiloWatt
Originally posted by hunnylander
There are some confusions on this board, thinking McLaren was back to its launch rear wing yesterday. That's false.

McLaren has shown to the public at least 3 different 09 rear wings till now. And the latest one (which I name 09C) was used yesterday.


09A (possibly the launch rear wing or very similar, used on Algarve and former Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_196.jpg

09B (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_166.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_181.jpg

09C (used on the current Jerez test)
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_132.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...9/diapo_172.jpg


Well spotted!
up.gif
Timstr11
Originally posted by wdh


I know its only for sensors, but I don't think anyone has mentioned the evolution of the front wheel hubs.

Those "C" pictures show 'spats' on the outside and the inside of both front wheels.

And BTW, the B pix show the plain 'race' hubcaps. And the first A pic shows the (outside-only) 'sensor' hubcap.

Development!
The inside fairings have been discussed in earlier posts as they were already at a previous test.
The fairings are believed to be genuine aero features, not sensors as was thought for a long time. The bodywork regulations do allow for appendages in that area, with the front track width slightly compromised to keep within the maximum with.

The B pix shows experimental 2010 Bridgestones, with different dimensions, which is why I think the fairings do not fit.
Kimiraikkonen
mclaren too bad to be true?
Someone gave me some positive news about them?

Regards
hunnylander
Originally posted by Kimiraikkonen
mclaren too bad to be true?
Someone gave me some positive news about them?

Regards


f1today.nl
McLaren werkt wederom aan 2010-banden 14:04 - Het team van McLaren gebruikt deze testweek vooralsnog om ver vooruit te werken. De Britse renstal is bezig met evaluatiewerkzaamheden aan de banden voor 2010, wanneer het rubber meer gewicht moet verdragen door het verbod op bijtanken tijdens races en bovendien zijn bandenwarmers volgend seizen verboden.


I don't include the Google Translated English...

The sum of it, today McLaren is testing with 2010 specs tyres, and 2010 regs (banned refuelling and tyre warmers).
Kimiraikkonen
Thanks but iīm still worried
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