If it walks like a dog, barks like a dog and smells like a dog.


It's probably a dog.

But seriously, that's the whole point... If nobody outside McLaren has hard facts about some (good) McLaren components while the team is confident about them, then that's not necessarily a bad thing...

If something needs testing out on the track then they would definitely do it, no?

Its gonna be rubbish

Maybe, but you do get some damn fast dogs.

Yup, why would a teams leave something very very important on their car at their factory and test something else from another era,,, with jut 2 session of testing left for the whole season!!
They have never run their full 2009 config. in dry .....but when they did they where really slow !!

Until yesterday i was confident Mclaren would solve their issues...but todays 08 wing test and setting a media lap with that, was not good at all!

either they have something really really radical and secret coming

or

they screwed it completely! which is more likely to happen at this stage!

Well you've convinced me.

In that case isn't it better if McLaren continue to test with the 08 wing to develop setup profiles? cause I can't see how running the 09 wing is actually gonna help with the original diffuser.

Awwwww

... and you accuse OTHER people of wishful thinking and lacking hard facts??

Who says they ever ran their definite 2009 config?

Who says they have 'issues'?

Who says they did a 'media lap'?

Go back to the Ferrari thread, instead of trolling around here.

My only problem with this logic is that we could all argue that everybody is going to have some major secret developments coming.

I know much is made of Mclaren's simulator, windtunnel, etc etc, but we shouldn't forget that they're not the only ones out there who do this type of thing. If Mclaren feel they dont need to test their new diffuser, then who's to say that BMW and Ferrari both dont have secret developments coming that they dont *need* to test?

Plus, it doesn't really make much sense to run the main 09 rear wing for most of the day. Why not just keep the 08 one on until they've got the complete package ready? Maybe run it for a few short stints to do some tests on it to make sure, but why the whole day? And looking at the times with the 09 rear wing, they're gonna need this new diffuser to bring them a good deal more than a second a lap to get up to the times they're capable of with the 08 wing.

Its great to be confident, but I think there's still a good amount of question marks over this whole thing.

The way I see things McMerc are either in serious trouble or being very very clever!!

On the surface there appears to be a problem, but for some reason the press are not picking up on it, so my guess is there is no need for concern.

Are you serious?

Why would McLaren test the 2010 tires on the day where weather is the nicest? The first day of that particular testing period? That don't sound like being in serious trouble or being late with anything to me..

Any Pics of them using the 2008 wing today? Ususally the press would be all over that??

did you see the "OR" ??

Well, I'd be cautious about that as well lol... the point is they can afford to do what they're doing so it rules out the doomsday scenario IMO.

Just because there is no press about Red Bull's reliability problems in testing doesn't mean they aren't having any.

I really dont see how the press are a good indicator of who is/isn't in trouble.

'
Because the data they get could prove useful for next year's car? Because testing the 2010 tires would be useless(not to mention impossible) on a wet track?

They're getting an extra test day, so its not like this is hurting them.

there will prob be a good testing writeup in Autosport Print this week..

The press are there observing the cars, speaking to the team and other teams. Mclaren seem off the pace, are using a non standard wing yet most still fancy them as front runners for the WDC. Matt Bishop heads their press, but the silence is deafening.

If Mclaren were in trouble we would know about it.

They wouldn't be fiddling with 2010 if it was panic-mode on the first day of a test where it's also possibly the only one with nice weather... there's no way around that..

Like mentioned before, and by total opposition to what some funny people are saying around here, its a display of confidence..

That doesn't mean total McLaren domination, but it rules out any serious issues needing to be sorted out on the track asap..

How would we know, though? The press dont know everything. The teams dont open up all their secrets to them.

People are still considering Mclaren for the WDC because its smart to give a team like them the benefit of the doubt. Mclaren are saying they will be fine and are confident, but thats what we expect to hear from a team. I think most teams will act confident even if they know they are in a bit of trouble.

I mean, what, do you expect them to come out and say, "Yea, we're struggling. This isn't going nearly as good as we would have liked, so dont get your hopes up."? C'mon.

Again, I'm not saying to start being pessimistic, but I still think there's some question marks that dont add up just yet.

I do suppose testing 2010 tyres is a waist of pressious testing mileage if there are any problems!!!

No, the 2010 tyre testing does not count towards the 2009 testing mileage limit.

Nope,

From James Allen

I don't think they used the 2010 tires today. Reason?
- There is no confirmation from McLaren
- On all the pictures I found from today they are using the new wheel fairings, and they don't fit on the 2010 due to different dimensions

I dont think anything can be said with such certainty.

Thats intresting...

Ok, that's something we would all agree.

But there's some more detailed things that we could read... Everyone is speaking about how well Massa and Alonso can run, mainly stints on 20-21's.

But Jerez is a 4.4 kms long track and a race on it has, if my memory isn't bad, 69 laps. So a good race stint is about 23-25 laps. Alonso has been doing less than 10 lap stins and Massa no more than 15 laps stints. Anf if you guys take a look on the comments thef1.com is providing, sometimes the same drivers do a stint on 20-21's and then 10 minutes later they are doing another stint at 23-24's.

So how to read at these times? It's just something that I just can't do.

And we can remember all winters that have passed by. All teams that were in trouble we knew how and when, like Ferrari in 2005 with not-lasting BS tyres, Mclaren with poor engine performance in 2006. The only excepction ahs been BMW last year.

But then at this year, nobody has been mentioning anything about Mclaren at the press. All the reports from ITV, Autosport etc seem not to care about they have a shi*** pace and that they've been using an older wing for a long time. It seems they do not exist. Lewis Hamilton, pfff. He has disappeared. And nobody knows what's really going on.

Make my words... Or Mclaren will run away with this season championships or they will stay behind the top 10.

Or maybe, they are genious both making cars anf making the opposition and the fans total fools.

But if Mclaren really used 2010 rubber today (2nd day on that testing session), when are they going to make up for it?

The Melbourne parts are made, can't be changed now, the only testing they need is for setups, which will be done next week at Barca. Meanwhile the endurance testing is vital and takes forever because of the 4-race lifetime for engines (what's the gearbox life now I've lost track?).

They're not going to take the diffuser we've seen to Melbourne, so there has to be a new one in the offing.

The flow viz is for validation of the virtual environment and has to be on the 09 wing, otherwise they may as well use the 08 one.

Durability testing may as well be done on 2010 tyres.

There's an element of risk trusting the virtual development so much, but the track data must match, and the upside is they can delay copying. It suggests they have something worth copying .

So it all looks planned to me. And quite bold

That's probably down to tyre choice

Don´t worry guys (you, Mclaren fans) soon, very soon, you´ll be pleased and proud, after all this time, you´ll laugh.

So much worry for nothing




regards

A lot can be changed in a month.

And how do you know what Mclaren's testing program is going to be next week?

The British press in particular (not just motorsport) are usually second rate researchers who are 2 month behind the curve. Most have no clue as to what is going on.

True journalism in the mainstream media is dead. Dont look to the media for information. They are just part of the corporate 'press release' and 'advertising wings' of large corporations.

Well I'm not presenting myself as an insider am I? It's my prediction. Setups have to be done, Barca is an aero track, they're going to leave it as late as possible.

AFAIK it takes weeks to make a carbonfibre part, in and out of an autoclave, and they have to fly it out. In fact they'd have to test it, so the deadline would be something like early February to change anything aero, at best. Kers and the rest of it they've been testing quite effectively with the 08 wing.

So I'm predicting the real MP4-24 will only appear at Barca, and will be running at the front, a totally different beast . You can nail me if I'm wrong

Iam not convinced. Something doesn,t smell right.

This applies to almost all non-independent press around the world, across the whole spectrum of stories and topics covered.

Is it a good thing to build up too high expectations? Especially for Martin Whitmarsh.

Imagine McLaren would top every tests, but in Melbourne it would turn out to be only a 3rd-4th team. We would be very disappointed.

But if they purposely hide their real pace and always show themselves as an underdog, then we would be much more satisfied with that they are the third team. It would be a positive surprise, they are not underdog.

yeah same here,theres an eerie feeling about all this similar to the one I had before the 2004 season started,whats also strange when McLaren have a fast car they usually let everyone know about it during testing with their laptimes. Never in all the recent years from what I remember have they ever tried to hide their true pace in the winter.

I damn well hope I'm wrong and the Barcelona test may well turn out to be Imola 2004 test of this year.

Something doesn´t smell in this car..... other 2004 season, MP 4-19 car....!!! oohhh nooo!!!!!!!


I have fear ...

Regards

(My english is by google traductor sorry!! I´m spanish)

My concern is that Mclaren might be outsmarting themselves.

It is obvious that they are hiding something - the diffuser used in testing so far is not what they intend running this season. Running the 08 wing might be a way to correct the "missing" diffuser in the package, but if their estimated downforce are wrong they'll be in big trouble. The team doesn't seem to be panicking, but they are playing with high stakes.

I think the Ferrari way is more sensible. Test the full 09 package as much as possible and bring on improvements continously until Melbourne. I think more teams than Mclaren will test a new diffuser at Barcelona. Most teams will probably test some kind of variant using the loophole explored by Toyota and Williams. I think it is more important at this stage to find a good setup/balance than to keep your package secret.

Does anyone know if Mclaren will run KERS in Australia? I have a suspision that the first team that run it with sucsess will create an avalanche of KERS introduction. Like when a wet track dries up: after the first car puts on slicks and runs faster, the whole pack is changing to slicks the next lap.

Would it be possible to run KERS only at the start? I suppose an extra 80 BHP at the start would be very attractive and useful at the start even if it is not reliable enough for a complete race.

I'm an optimist . Third team is not even on my radar (though a 4/5/6-way battle for top spot would be fine). Plus when I try to assemble the snippets we know into something that makes sense, that's where I end up. It's about the diffuser, not the wing. They don't need to fit it until next week, so they're not going to.

(unless they introduce it tommorrow or Friday, obviously )

At some point you have to bolt everything on and run the car flat out to see how fast it is. I dont believe computers can effectively simulate real world environments yet. They can give an indication but until you put a driver in the car you just dont know.

Thats why i dont beleieve any of the teams are sandbagging. Sure they may have more fuel in on some runs, but i am sure they will all want to try to go as fast as possible, if for no other reason that its easy to be reliable at 90-95% of maximum. Its only when you stress the components 100% that they usually break.

Sandbagging with limied testing makes no sense at all to me.

Waiting until the last minute until you bolt everything on also makes no sense to me. If i was a team owner, id want to develop the car as quickly as possible. Delaying adding parts delays development. Makes no sense to me.

We should wait and see what Lewis can do with the car in his hands tomorrow.

Interesting this quote..... tomorrow we will see

Regards

According to killfile all the teams know how fast their car is before it turns a wheel (shame they can't just tell us ).

I see what you mean about starting development, maybe it's the weather, they'll get much better data from Melbourne. And two weeks is a whole race with your advantage, in terms of keeping a secret.

Exactly my thoughts.

Like most, I can't imagine they are in real trouble, like Renault at this time last year, it just doesn't feel that way.

Still... they may have something sensational in the wings, yet throw it all away with too much secrecy and over-confidence shown so far.

Another thing, especially if they've done something revolutionary and unique with their diffusor, how the odds that it will be protested by others Friday evening in Melbourne?

We know the FIA doesn't always process such things in a strictly logical fashion (;)) everything could happen. Let's hope McLaren can then come up with something better than "Charlie Whiting told us it would be okay".

I can see the advantage in keeping a secret until the very last moment, but only if it is something radical that gives a huge advantage. Otherwise more time is gained by more testing or the parts/package. The first races are fly-away-races, so any secret revealed at Barcelona will probably not be copied sucsessfully until we return to Europe. On the other hand, as many has already pointed out, Mclaren will not be the only ones running new parts in Barcelona.