Faith, of course, being the preserve of those who do not understand.

Which is kinda fitting at the moment, because while I'm sure McLaren haven't produced a true pig of a car (they haven't since 2004), I do wonder what on earth they are up to?

...along with several others on this forum. But { if you're a fan, kar } it's only worth worrying about until we know for sure there's a major problem. And I can't see anything that convinces me this is the case yet.

I'm reading the board and getting more and more coufused. McLaren uses 2008 wing. it's kinda strange, but who tells that 2008 wing is faster then 2009 one? Personally I think that the car with "proper" wing will be faster then with the wing from the previous model.

i hope it is

They've tested the car with the new rear wing, and it was a couple seconds off the pace compared to when they stick the 2008 rear wing on.

Apparently its supposed to be the rear wing/diffuser *combo* that's gonna get it to the 2008 d/f levels.

We'll see.

I'm just getting very confused.
I'd like to see McLaren blitzing the timesheets, or at the very least dragging out some interesting new aero, but it seems they're continuing to circulate with not many changes (rear wing aside)

For all the talk about "the car will look nothing like this come Melbourne", it still looks remarkably similar with not long to go! Maybe they're just adopting the Newey philosophy of "more time to develop" and if it pays off - great!

And when are they going to start using the sexy exhaust outlets from the launch car instead of these weird blanked-off gaps in the bodywork?

2008 d/f levels? that I would like to see without the equivelent of throwing out a a parachute.

Hmmmmmm.....

The only thing I can think is they are developing the aero in their simulator and wind tunnel and using track time to sort out the KERS and other mechanicals. That is the only sensible thing I can think.

2008 *rear wing* d/f levels.

Yeah, it's certainly weird.

I guess the only thing we can be reasonably sure of is that the last major test before Oz kicks off soon and McLaren will have to have their final aero solution on display then.

When the new rear wing comes, all will be revelled

I suspect the current "09 wing" is *the* wing, its the diffuser thats going to be new.

Its a 2008 wing set up to simulate 2009 d/f levels and drag, its nowhere near the d/f levels the teams had in 08.

I think as Mac Fans we have two choices:

1. Trust in the team that they have the knowledge, resources and confidence required to put the team at the pointy end of the grid in Melbourne having already demonstrated that the car is largely reliable, works over a large range of set-up options and that KERS seems to be fully on-stream; then look forward to bolting on the 2009 aero and performance parts which have been fully verified from the testing thus far and the (most advanced) simulation tools or

2. Get your clues as to the likely performance this year from the 'Winter Testing Thread' which I've personally and unilatterally re-named 'The Iberian Jolly Jamboree of Utter Bollox".

I'm personally sticking with Option 1.

Have you seen the wing they're using? Its not a low-downforce wing from 2008, its got a bit of angle on it. The point is that they expect the 2009 package to have the same downforce that this 2008 wing is generating for them.

C'mon, you knew what I meant, right?

I'm hoping it's 1, but until I see the car running in full 2009 clothes and the performance is unleashed I remain concerned.

Option 1 here.

yep

Last year Maca had the anti-Ferrari-copycat restriction imposed by FIA to design their car.
Now that there is no restriction, the car should be even better.

I doubt it actually hampered them that much, if at all last year.

Besides, the new cars are designed from a blank sheet, so you cant really assume any 'comparisons' to last year's cars.

Don't try change your tack, you said 2008 d/f levels! Thats not going to happen, thats why they changed the rules. The wing is not set up to simulate 2008 d/f levels, it's set up to give what they expect the 2009 d/f levels to be in final config with 2009 wing and diffuser.

You dont have to give me the benefit of the doubt, but I know what I meant.

Well I live in hope of aero updates and increased pace but history does suggest that the most obvious explanation is more often than not the correct one.

I don't like the fact that Hamilton doesn't appear to have the same confidence he showed last year. But who knows. Maybe MP4-24 is just a workhorse for KERS and MP4-24.2 will be unveiled to the public at the final test and blow us away.

Can someone explain something for me? Would the fact that they are having issues getting heat into the tyres be a good thing given the low track temperatures and their penchant for overheating them over the past couple of seasons under race conditions? Or might it suggest they went too far the other way and the increased temps expected at races this season are unlikely to help?

Option number 3- accept that nothing said on a forum makes any difference to the team. Whether they are strong or weak, arguing about it can't change it. So everyone just needs to wait and see. That rationale hasn't stopped fanboy arguements of the past though. Hope they have the best car, hate them and hope they suck, it doesn't make much difference. It's hard not to talk about though when everyone is eager for the new season to begin.

The only hope in McLaren's case is that the planned upgrades provide an enourmous jump in performance, as I think it's at this point safe to say that the current car is one of the slowest 2009 cars. Then again, I don't have high hopes for the upgrades.

Why? Well, the team told at the time of the launch that the launch spec car had already been finalised months ago and that they already had developments coming. Now this might be a bit of a jump in logic, but I don't think McLaren expected even the launch car to be this much of the pace and possibly even be troubled with balance issues (lack of downforce at the rear) which would explain the use of the 2008 rear wing (indeed the original excuse from the team was that the 2009 rear wing would be too dangerous to use in wet conditions). Therefore there's a possibility that the upgrades they had been working on followed the same flawed design philosophy as the launch car, and have now turned out to be somewhat moot.

One of the fastest over the long run?

they did stints of 8 laps

Good post, but can I suggest a third option? Have your expectations downgraded to such a level that, with last season's success (and one of the best finales of all time) fresh in your mind, you consider that if you have to have a season of non-WDC capable performance, you'll cope with this one being that way. Get ready to enjoy seeing the car with the number 1 on it, a reminder every race of the cracking year that was last year. Prepare to be pleasantly surprised with any WDC capable form. You can't go wrong

[QUOTE]Originally posted by F1 Truth
[/QUOTE] [/B][/QUOTE]

Your avotar equality?

Anyone still dare to claim that McLaren don't care about people's opinions of their times? We've had some sort of excuse for the past how many days now.....

"A delay to fit new parts to the rear suspension caused Lewis to miss out on most of the morning’s running - when the track was at its fastest "
No mention of the fire in Hamilton's car then. I suppose they must have been fitting the 08 wing, but why do that if it would take so long?

Actuall thats is quite possiable if they didnt change tyres etc...

So I'm equality because I am pessimistic about McLaren's chances? I have been a McLaren fan too long to be optimistic when all the signs point to the car being a dog. I'd love to believe that there's some sandbagging scheme going on, but unfortunately press releases like that one only strengthen my belief that there's something wrong.

yeah and the other day it was a faulty oil sensor, when there clearly came smoke from the back and the marshals had clean the track, are we back to the old mclaren in terms off them handling the press, which were all bs. i dont know

About the supposed brakes/suspension problem yesterday:

I was there and watched it live, just in front of us and it looked like a engine fail: a white smoke/liquid courtain (probably oil, typical of engine fail) appeared from left side of the rear end, it started sounding weird and afer about 100 meters it finally turned into fire when he braked into the chicane (probably the heat from exhausts or brakes - it is a hard braking turn - turned the oil into fire) Luckily it was only a coupe of turns before pits, because he was crawling to get into them. Also, he was only in his 2nd-3rd lap if I remember correctly, don't think brakes could be overheated (it was also pretty cold today)

And he was already running with 2008 rear wing when that happened, so the delay (like 2 hours and half) in returning to track had nothing to do with fitting it.

Everything indicates it was an engine failure and they had to change it.

As you say: it looked like a engine failure. So you can't be sure.

This is a yesterday picture: it looks like an engine failure.
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...6/diapo_151.jpg

it finally turned into fire when he braked into the chicane This supports it was a brakes issue.

he was only in his 2nd-3rd lap if I remember correctly In such a period an F1 car's brake can reach its working temperature dozens of times, so this reasoning can't exlude it was a brakes issue.

And the time period to repair the car seemed reasonable and quite short to me, to be a suspension change.

And what about the weird sound and the white liquid streaming out of the car BEFORE BRAKING? In fact it was when accelerating out of a corner, fire happened later in the chicane. It supports it WASN'T a brake issue. I'm not talking about a single picture that could be misleading, but about a full sequence I saw and heard.

Could be a heavy oil leak, not a full engine failure, but it was clear it was engine related.

But think whatever you want, of course.

It's a bit absurd that we don't really know, it would have been a lot better if the team press release had mentioned and explained the fire, and been a bit more straightforward with less spin in the whole release. McLaren have a long history of being cr*p at PR, it doesn't do them any favours. The trouble is people go into Public Relations because they have great social skills and confidence, but no other functioning equipment between the ears. Perhaps in his search for perfection Ron has tended to select PR people who are particlularly confident, beautiful, and stupid

Anyway I just try to tune this stuff out and concentrate on the way they engineer the car and go racing. I don't believe they'd try to hide an engine failure though.

And also, on a linked issue, it seems to me with these basically insulting press releases trying to deceive and manipulate the reader, the F1 press should call them on it, and get it stamped out.

You're all wrong.

It was a gearbox failure.

Source?

It's a secret.

I know a few people in PR and they are far from stupid. Quite the opposite, they are among the brightest people I know.

The problem is they have to do what they are told, and if they are told to do something which defies common sense then they have to try and do that to the best of their ability. Which, sadly, all too often makes _them_ look like the dumb ones.

Imagine, for example, you're Luca Colianni after Schumacher parked his car, and you're not allowed to just say 'he did something naughty', even though everyone in the world + dog knew he did. How do you handle that?

Well I've known quite a few and they all seem intelligent enough until you ask them something detailed and specific

And it should have been obvious to anyone even 'somewhat' intellectually challenged that yesterday's release was not going to meet the needs of F1 fans.

Mind you we did get a few information releases from Mac earlier in the test season which were detailed and factual, as though written by an engineer, and there was some moaning on here that "we haven't had that before" or something...

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119197.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119196.jpg

Little update on the front wing endplates.

They were accurate because the team didn't have any problems in those particular days. Once sth wrong happens with the car their press releases are always full of PR BS.

Not just the endplanes. They seem to have an extra element on top of the front wing as well.
At least they're testing new parts.

http://xpb.cc/thumbnails/2009/f1-2009-jere...0HMQF7L_450.jpg

Hmm, 4 section to the wing.