It's all IF's, and I hope the if's become true, but I just cannot ignore the obvious.

Time to quote killfile again...

"the purpose of winter testing is, in ascending order of priority:


To evaluate the reliability of mechanical components

To validate wing tunnel and CFD data

To develop set-up profiles

"

The 08 wing is fine for the first two, there are 8 days left for setups. No problem, it's the plan.

why do I get a mental image of you stood infront of a mirror repeating that sentence over and over again...

I think come Monday everything will be revealed for better or for worse.
In Barcelona we'll see if they decide to unwrap a new diffuser and start running full time with the 2009 wing.

If they still run the 2008, well.. I'll be gobsmacked

I give up, i hope they do run the 2008 for the next test and the last one too... the annoyance/frustration is actually funny!!

Our (the BB) reaction is funnier...

Could mclaren use this rearwing 08 at melbourne????

Regards

Yes, just have to survive till Monday. Then...Lewis ftd, shock and awe all over the padock .

No it's an illegal part.

Surely if they had a problem with the 2009 rear wing then they would be testing the crap out of it, even if its only to give the drivers time to adapt to whatever bizarre handling characteristics. What Mclaren is doing is bizarre and doesn't seem to make sense by any benchmark, but we have to have faith that they know what they are doing.

I'm sure they know what they're doing buy it doesnt mean they don't have problems. They probably do.

Its really hard to speculate mclarens strange testing when no teams are no commenting on mclaren, at all the interviews etc they all say that ferrari, mclaren etc should be strong so until some driver or team personal from another team says what is going on with mclaren I am going to still assume that mclaren will be fighting for the win in melbourne

i think a guy from toyota said mclaren looks slow and off the pace...

Very good post Slowinfastout, will be great news..... will see at barca.

Regards

No.


One of the reasons they are running the 08 wing with a simple diffuser is so that they can keep secret the 2009 wing AND diffuser combination.

Ultimately the 08 wing and simple diffuser will provide the same downforce as the yet to be revealed new diffuser.

My only concern is that even with using the current 08 combo, they don't seem that fast on the long stints, but perhaps they are more heavily sandbagging.

Lets remind ourselves of what AFCA and Haug said to verify the above:

Well, if any team has the experience to make that remark......

eh, the more people that write mclaren off, the more satisfying for me when they prove said folks wrong

Yes, there's no actual evidence of a problem. I haven't seen an analysis that points to one.

I hope it


when it said that norbert?

Regards

near 24 February.

thanks

Pure speculation. That's what we hope the situation is, but there is no proof to that effect.

People also have to remember teams like Ferrari and BMW have new parts coming too. McLaren are playing catch-up.

I find it difficult to believe they are sandbagging at this point of winter testing. More than the "ultra downforce new secret rear wing" theory.Why if not are they being not as fast even with a 08 wing?

Why are they still using spray to analyze air friction if they have everything under control?

Just speculating....anyway McLaren have the resources do recover in case they are into some trouble.

If that's what makes you happy.

SCARBS commented on Autosport that using the spray is normal. But because of a lack of private testing, they are doing it in the public eye. I imagine it is to correlate with their own wind tunnel expectations.

No other team has been seen using it once though (or am I wrong on that?) and McLaren have used it alot of times. On it's own it means nothing. When combined with the rear wing issue, it becomes more of a talking point.

Pascal Vasselon, Senior General Manager of the Chassis Department. I think he said something like "they appear to be struggling but we can't underestimate them".

Had me thinking as well. With refuelling banned for 2010, surely the other teams will have to move the batteries away from the fuel cell and Mclaren will have already been running that setup for a year. Long term it's maybe a smart move? Still for 2009 I really hope the team display some potential next week. If the 2008 wing is really simulating all Mclaren have got then I fear for the performance level come Melbourne.

I don't think they are in big trouble. I don't think they have some secret über wing either.

I think they're having difficulties and I would imagine they're working hard to correct them, but I'm not sure it's a 'crisis' as some would speculate (or hope).

Personally I wonder if they are in a similar place to BMW last winter - they had some issues with the aero but they worked them out and then had a very quick car under them.

Indeed, using it once or twice is normal, but when using it a lot (like when introducing a new front wing) it seems to me they don't trust their simulations that much...

Yea I think it was 2005 where they started the year not in the best of shape but once they fixed everything the car was on a different planet in terms of speed...

It was on a different planet in terms of reliability too..

Lewis Hamilton was back at the wheel of the McLaren Mercedes MP4-24 today at Spain's Circuito de Jerez, where this week's five-day test session came to an end with six teams still at the venue.

Today's programme started with the controlled on-track draining of the tank to assess the effectiveness of MP4-24's fuel collection, thereby testing the onboard fuel gauge. For the remainder of the day, the team worked on tuning the car's set-up, which was fitted with a modified front wing. Flow visualisation paint was applied, streaming from the nose towards the back on the McLaren's left side only.

The session ended prematurely at 15:30 when a sudden gust of wind swept the MP4-24 off the track and into a tyre barrier, the team reported. While the impact was only a mere 44km/h, the car went in rearwards, doing enough to dislodge the rear wing and lightly damage the car's rear end. With insufficient time to effect repairs before the end of the session, the team opted to finish early in order to commence preparations for next week's four-day Barcelona test.

Hamilton completed 58 laps and covered 257 kilometres today. He set the third-quickest time, 1.2 seconds off today's best run.

Of note, the 2008 rear wing was again in use, further raising suspicion that the 2009 rear wing design seems problematic.

With a sudden gust of wind capable of pushing the car off-track, it remains to be seen if the new McLaren's handling will be raised next week at the final test sessions before the season begins.

from F1-live.com

Well if you think that, then I should suggest you brush up on your astronomy...

Its a development of the transparent engine cover, they've actually used an array of mirrors, prisms and transprent carbon fibre to make their hugely innovative and exciting 2009 rear wing look like a 2008 rear wing to prevent the design being copied.

They've also used an ingenious combination of fire, gravel and crashing into a wall to disguise their new diffuser, which is so powerful it has actually been sucking up the top layer of tarmac at private tests.

I'd have thought flow-viz on a brand new wing would be automatic. I'm more puzzled why the other teams aren't doing it, if anything. They develop a new wing in cfd, tunnel-test it, put it on the car, why would they not flow-viz it? Feed the outcome back into the development tools, refine them a little bit more, this is how they develop at 0.15 seconds per race .

I think the other teams are kind of shy or lame not to use flow-vis, because they also have no 100% accurate CFD modelling, neither the possibility to test 1:1 models in the wind tunnel, because it's banned.

On track flow-vis at McLaren is their new working method. They used it on the new front wing yesterday also. (And that front wing is pretty advanced, it's not shite IMO.) It's a habit already, a development practice, I have no worries about it.

Obviously, as I remember you HSJ saying that the Mercedes engine was the 8th in terms of power at that time and that Mclaren would be faster than they were at Monza 2005 if they were running and R25, BAR007 or even an TF105B instead of the MP4/20.

I didn't know 1:1 wind tunnel testing was banned ? You learning something new everyday...

ive never been a bit bothered by the flow-viz thing, just seemd like mclaren being their classic uber scientific selves....

the 08 wing? thats another issue

Exactly. 2008 wing instantly made me wonder whether something is going on, but flow vis seemed like a regular testing device to me and not much of a story at all. But now things seem to add up. However, it can be that we saw pics of Mclaren with it because of the 'is something going on talk'.

This is a fantastic post. Can we all try to hit such high standards of discussion rather than endlessly bickering over the smallest points?

It's become banned recently, starting with this year.

2009 F1 Sporting Regulations, Article 22:

Possible solution is that 2009 is screwed, the knew a new one was needed andt at the same time Williams-style diffusers were deemed legal so they figured out it would be better to start from the scratch and develop a brand new wing+diff combo instead of trying to get the screwed one to work. That's pure guessing, of course, I'm really struggling to come up with a sensible sounding solution.

Thanks

Mark Hughes says McLaren might be in troubles.

http://www.itv-f1.com/Feature.aspx?Type=Mark_Hughes&id=45218

Yep. Kind of echoes what most are saying. There is a problem. They are trying to sort it. They're not on the pace of the rivals. Lots of work to do clearly. Could be a disappointing start to the campaign but we'll see.

"...but definitely a few tenths adrift of Ferrari and Renault."


¿Only a few tenths? I would say that a second at least.

Regards

"The following day Lewis Hamilton was spending a lot of time back-to-backing the two rear wings. It looked less like a routine programme than a problem-nailing exercise."

Doesn't amount to an analysis really. I can't get past the basic idea that if they had a problem with the Melbourne diffuser and rear wing, that's what they'd be running, with flow-vis, hot-wire anemometers, pitot tubes, tufts of wool and anything else they could use to see what was wrong. But they're fiddling around at the other end of the car.

who is Mark Hughes ?
He says:

As those three teams then joined the others in Jerez, it was clear that Ferrari was still in very good shape, that Red Bull and Williams were in the Toyota/BMW ballpark and that Renault seemed to slot somewhere in between, slightly slower than Ferrari, slightly faster than Toyota et al.

the basis of which it considers ? Result of test session 04 March?

sorry my english.

Mark Huges = Carlos Mikel and Marco Canseco of spanish press