Absolutely, i can say you i´m spanish

Regards

No, the 'lump' in the FWEP is the housing for the front wing adjustment. The CF part is simply a winglet on the outside of the FEWP.

'Flow vis' tests are far simpler than you may think, a special type of brightly colored paint is sprayed onto surfaces, or specific parts, of the car. This paint stays wet as the car is then driven and the flow patten can then be seen visually. It's really not a sign of any problems it's merely a very simple comparison tool for CFD, Wind Tunnel, and Live Data.

You really think so? I'm starting to get a little concerned, but at the same time I almost refuse to believe they've made an RA108. OK, that may of course not be what you - and plenty of others - are saying, and no way will their competitiveness plummet that far, but they may not start the season fighting for poles and wins. Then again, the first three or four G's P last year they only looked like the third fastest package.....

Either it will be , :\ or .

We`ll see, said the blind man ...

Currently the most interesting question for me is "when". When they will reveal the new diffuser/rear end package? When they will quit using the 2008 rear wing and the infill panel fitted diffuser? In Barcelona next week or only in Jerez?

To me it seems they are gambling with big stakes.

All or nothing for McLaren it seems so far.

Not related to the car, but definitely to its no 1 driver, I found this linked on another forum and I think it's worth sharing

http://www.karting1.co.uk/formula-kart-sta...lton-launch.htm

Lewis' participation and the things he is saying there have made him go up quite a lot in my estimation (for whatever that is worth ).

AMuS speculates, that the rear brake failure was due to the aerodynamics not working as predicted. Therefore the cooling of the brakes didn't get enough air and the system overheated.

Source:
AMuS

However the odd thing about that little winglet is that its full of holes/tubes.
I'd presume that is to set up some very tiny vortices - it'd be slotted if the idea was to keep the flow laminar. My informed (but not well-informed) guess would be that you'd try to wrap bigger vortices in smaller ones to better control or stabilise them.
I wonder if the flow structures being established by the front wing aren't properly stable on the track, leading to greater uncertainties the further away from that front wing - the higher and the further back on the car - and the rear wing is furthest and highest.
If that's what's happening, then it ought to be changes to the front wing that people ought to be looking out for - rather than watching for an '09 rear wing and diffuser.
If you were playing about trying to get the front right, you'd be seeing how those front changes affected a known package at the back.


My reading is that Flow Vis is the sort of thing you'd be doing repeatedly if you didn't have full confidence in the tie-up between "CFD, Wind Tunnel, and Live Data".
Hence my impression is that the '09 wings have not been giving the expected results.
My reasoning is that that could be due to problems stemming from from the front.
Keeping the known rear end would allow them to evaluate whether their subtle changes at the front (like the winglet with holes) are having the desired effect.
And keeping that well-known wing while you muck about with different flows over and around it would provide the most stable basis for comparison.

Sticking with something that best agrees with the calculations (or simplifies them) while you sort out everything else on the car (and try and figure out the error in the calculations) would seem to mesh with McLaren's computationally-led methods.
Unfortunately, if McLaren's computations aren't delivering, that would be potentially more serious for them than for other teams.

Logical I suppose, though that would really be not working, bursting into flames. And if so, is that a design cockup or just a testing cockup running an interim package with their attention on something else?

That F1 technical link is also wrong because Ferrari has had that winglet since launch.

cheers kar, would've missed that if not for you flagging it up.

So Anthony slaps Lewis around a bit when he loses.....

So Mclaren seem to in the place occupied by BMW this time last year.. but even then, there were voices saying that BMW's pace during the long runs suggest they're faster than they want other temas to believe (I wonder if this is the case this year too, just read BMW are yet to do low fuel runs). With Mclaren today, even this dose of optimism is lacking. Rosberg said he doesn't feel like they're behind Mclaren, Toyota says Mclaren seems to be in troubles... I'm really skeptical. Still, I don't think Mclarens will be outside top 10, but I would be equally surprised if they scored podiums during the first two races. We'll find out soon

As a McLaren fan I'm not looking forward to the opening race with the present status of the car indicating that it is a lemon. Whether we are going to see a repeat of the first half of 2004 is to be seen. I'm frustrated to see the team squander a good opportunity coming on the back of a WDC season
Oh, well I can always support my two favourite drivers - Kimi and Fernando.

So what you are saying is that you only support McLaren when they are winning?

It really depends on how wrong there aero flow is, IOW what parts would they have to change to fix it. If new bodywork would do, McLaren certainly have the resources to get it done quite quickly. If it extends to the monocoque, then it's really looking bad.

The worst case would be if there simulations are not only wrong but inconsistent too.

I can't quite imagine that to be the case, having seen the sucessfull cars of the last two years, but OTOH thats seems what has happened right now, they build something based on incorrect data.

No, that's not what he's saying at all.

I agree if McLaren are a dud, it doesn't stop me supporting them, but if thats the case and WIlliams or Red Bull are near the front then I will probs also be cheering them for the championship aswell.

The worry I have if McLaren unveil something either next week or the last test that is revolutionary and introduces new way of the floor interacting with the rear wing is that it will be banned very quickly.

If they do have this totally new system will it have already being signed off by FIA?


On the aero being bad, it seems strange that FIA allows engines to be equalised to close up competition but don't allow the teams to equalise aero or suspensions?

Seems strange that they apply different rules of thinking in such matters.

Last day in Barca or in Jerez imo.

Why does that seem strange. Equalising the engines has closed up competition, why do they need to do the same for aero? They dont want all the cars to be exactly the same!

And your point about McLaren - if if if...

Aero and suspension are (until new FIA spec rules...) free, no homologation required, able to be changed at any time etc. Teams can introduce a new suspension concept whenever they like.

The suspension concept of each is fundamental to it's layout, so there is no 'better' and 'worse' also of course. One team might put a suspension that theoretically generates more grip, at the expense of being difficult to drive and hard to set up but works exceptionally in certain track conditions. Whilst another might put one that sacrifies some grip but ensures a much nicer drivability and a car that is easy to set-up with a wide operating window.

Well, if they have thought about something revolutionairy AND they are planning to introduce it at the very last moment AND haven't talked about it with the FIA whether it will be legal, it would be plain stupid..

Haug talked about the car "coming together" in the final weeks. For those who remember the 2004 season in Ferrari's domination it might sound ominous. Bridgestone developed the construction and compounds of the F2004 seperately and only merged them at the final test of the season with devastating consequences for the competition.

Then again that car might just be plain slow.

I think a good first step would be to have a car that is at least capable of fighting for podiums. Depending on the severity of the design problems even scoring any points in the first race could be a tall order, unless there are a lot of retirements or it rains. I certainly am not expecting McLaren to be able to fight for either of the championships this season.

Hopefully I'm completely wrong about them and the updates will transform the car, but somehow I doubt it.

I very much doubt that McLaren will be off the pace is Melbourne. But even though I've always liked the team, I think it would be very interesting if they had the fifth best car this year. Then I think we'd learn a lot more about Lewis - that midfield is a much fiercer place than the front of the grid.

When did Rosberg say that? I can't recall it.

I think a lot of people are going to be in for a surprise in the coming weeks. McLaren are obviously holding a part back for development and to stop other teams from copying it. If McLaren were having trouble with the 2009 spec rear wing then you can bet that they'd be giving it serious testing mileage and tweaking the rest of the car to suit the wing if they couldn't solve the rear wing problem.
You can't judge form through testing, it's as simple as that. People say that the McLaren is slow with the 09 wing yet I'd like somebody to tell me what fuel was in the car and how the engine mapping was set up. The car could be a dog despite the "surprise" diffuser that is allegedly on the way - testing times mean nothing to those outside of the team.

It looks to me as if McLaren are using the 08 wing to simulate the downforce they will have in Melbourne once the new diffuser is on the car (the blacked out current diffuser suggests a new diffuser is coming) so they can accurately develop set ups and alike.

No need to panic until Q1 of qually in Oz.

He's being in F1 two years, he is WDC, what more do we need to learn, why do we need to learn anymore, its only fans or rival teams that want him in the midfield with a midfield car and learn about him, fans of the team and driver have no need to learn more.

Not conclusively, no, but it often gives some indication. If Mclaren were at the top on every test, I doubt you'd be saying the same thing.

Then we went away to amuse much

Regards

On the same hand if McLaren were at the top on every test it would also NOT indicate that they was going to be on top when the actual races were being run,

I do feel that much of this 'I'd like to see Lewis in the midfield' thing is pure fear from many people. But I can honestly say that it would be interesting, just like it was interesting to see Alonso in a midfield car this past season. Granted, I'd rather see them in a winning car, fighting for the championship where they belong, but I cant say I'd be crushed to see Lewis in a midfield car for a season or two. For one, its hard to argue that its not character-building, and two, it might actually be a better chance for him to show his true abilities. There's nothing more impressive than seeing a driver drag a non-championship car to the front of the grid and deliver a result with it. There's a reason many people voted Alonso as Driver of the Year in 2008.

No need to be defensive. I rate Lewis very highly, but the truth of the matter is that there's a lot we don't know about him. If he has a tricky car will he struggle? What about being stuck in heavy traffic and under constant pressure from quicker cars behind (which would likely happen since he's such a good qualifier)? I want this to happen at some point because I want to know if he's a truly great driver or just a very good one that knows how to win from the front.

Oh c'mon, yes it would. Again, there's a difference between 'conclusive' and 'indicative'. It wouldn't mean that Mclaren are *definitely* going to be front runners, but it would certainly *indicate* that they probably would be.

after the first group test..

You doubt I'd be saying the same thing? Sorry but do you even know me? I'd love to know how you quantify making such a statement.

Everybody knows that testing times are a poor reference guide to evaluating final form despite who your favourite team may or may not be. I'd definitely go out on a limb and say that testing form aside the McLaren will be in the top three teams this year based on prior form and pedigree.

Haven't we already seen him do the things you've mentioned beside being in traffic?

Hi, whilst I am not an out and out fan of Lewis, I think if you had seen him in the lower formulas you would not need to ask those questions.

Yes, Silverstone, 2006, his drive there was simply amazing.

Mclaren are not looking to just the first 3 GPs, they are looking further down the line and that is what they are preparing for...

I predict that a few months down the line, "experts" will be praising Mclaren as a team with foresight.

Why is being stuck in traffic suddenly going to produce this sudden revelation?

We've seen MS, Alonso, Kimi and many others stuck in traffic and all of them either shone or were average depending on race by race, there was not some massive change in them, nothings going to happen, those that dont think much of Lewis are still going to think the same, those that think highly are still going to think the same, the only change will be that his fans and mclaren fans will miss out on going for the championship.

Is that knowledgeable personal opinion or whispers?

And while it could be true and will be nice to be developing faster then other teams and is a good idea, it would also be nice to be competitive in the first races.

YEP...as for traffic, was it not at Monza he was stuck in traffic wit Raikkonnen and did much more overtaking in the wet, if not for the botched tire strategy he could have ended up on podium after his start from 15th or so (on pure rain pace, no safety car)...and even when his tires were giving way, he never allowed Webber to pass him and the point he got there eventually u can say made the diff. in the end.

How about at Hockenheim where he was comfy in front, till the team made the pitstop mistake and he had to win the race all over again

thing though is detractors will always look at these incidents and say oh its the car, even when his teammate isnt showing nearly as much pace.


So if Hamilton had a midfield car and somehow still scored podiums, these same people will say oh its the car....

'
I doubt *anyone* would be saying the same thing is my point. Of course I dont know you. No need to get so defensive about it.

And no, testing times are not a poor reference guide. They are typically very indicative. Just not conclusive.

And you have every right to give Mclaren the benefit of the doubt here due to their history. Personally, I'm giving them the same benefit of the doubt and think they'll *probably* be up at the front, I'm just not going to say they definitely will.

For as much as you say that testing times dont matter, I think that assuming they'll be front-runners simply because they were in the past is an even less accurate way to predict performance. Especially after such a huge change in the tech regs, ya know?

So are you worried or not???

There's a difference between being in traffic with the best car on the grid and being in traffic with an average car. I just want to see if he can elevate such a car up the grid and keep it there. I think that's something we need to see to call him a "complete" driver. The guy has always had top-notch machinery (even in the lower formulae) so I don't believe we know the answer yet. Personally, I would bet that he can. But I still want to see it.

I want to see the best drivers in f1 fighting for the win,not stuck behind sutil fighting for 12th,LH should have a solid car behind him,same goes Alonso who I think is an arrogant f**k but his talents deserve to shine at the front.

And it gets everywhere. You think you've cleaned it out of every little nook and cranny and you still find it in the most unlikely places when you strip the car down...



Holes? I think that's just the pattern of the weave in the CF.

i get the feeling no matter what he does in his career, u will still have folks questioning his abilities with silly excuses....its the nature of the sport, it seems haters will always be able to blame it on the car.

a great championship will be all the drivers with ability n promise....Ham, Alonso, KR, Massa, Kubica, Vettel etc having cars that are really closely matched fighting for the race win every weekend.

but even then, going back to the earlier comment, if one driver shines over the others displaying a remarkable level of consistency on every track, making no mistakes during race weekends etc...people will still find ways to blame it on the car