Depends if they plan on doing setup work for the twisty midsection at Interlagos.

Eh, I´ll bet we will see it

The point is that no team shows noticeable panic, no matter how bleak their outlook. These are huge, professional organizations, not a group of amateur car-tinkerers. Of course there's going to be an atmosphere of confidence and calm. Thats how you get things done. Not by panicking.

We all know it is tough when we see behaviour not in line with established pattern but we also need to remember that we are entering a season like no other. Mclaren have consequently chosen to approach this season differently. How does that equate to issues?

Again, you're just interpreting everything thats happened differently. How do you know that they're actually taking a different approach and aren't just having problems with the normal approach? You dont. Or how would you know that if they were taking a different approach, that its just not working out for them? You wouldn't.

I've got no problem with somebody saying 'I think blah blah blah', but you are acting like you know something that you really dont. I dont how else I can get you to admit that, so I'm just not gonna bother anymore.

It was only a personal opinion, my own personal opinion, analysis or prediction. I'm entitled to have them, as you also. I haven't said I tell you the ultimate truth, so take it as it is, as my opinion.

You know to put IMO, IMHO or IMNSHO into every sentences I write would be stupid and boring. The reader should add that to my writings.

For me the thing that no-one among the doubters has explained is why they're not running their best shot at an an 09 aero package, if there's a problem with it.

The only reason there would be a problem would be if the modelling has a fault, so that on track it doesn't work as predicted.

So in that case they would be running it on track, to see why.

But they're not.

That is my basis for thinking it will be OK and they'll be right up there when the 09 kit does go on, this week.

Hopefully, tomorrow.

One option I see is it was so fundamentally flawed it was better to go back to 2008 wing and design new aero from the scratch than to try to get anything useful the flawed design. That's pure guessing, before everyone points that out.

This place is going to erupt if we still don't how things stand at the end of this test, its a 4 day test, at the end surly they can start to afford to show there hand..?

If they show something flash and unheard off how long does it take another team to engineer a similar part, especially as there is only another Jerez test after this where I believe Ferrari, Toyota and BMW are not able to attend due to already used up there test days?

But from Sam Michael's quote it's likely Mac have designed for a double-decker diffuser from the beginning, yet we haven't seen it. How could they identify an aero modelling fault, or even know there was one, without fitting it?

Michael also says more or less that other teams are keeping theirs secret.

It would appear that you and Femi are arguing that because Mclaren are not doing something or other, be it panicking or running an errant car on track, that they do not have any problems. Whilst I pray that you are both right common sense and the team's recent performance at tests tell a more alarming story.

Regardless what the team do or don't have up their sleeves their drivers need track mileage and Lewis certainly wasn't getting much of that last week for spurious reasons including a deadly gust of wind. The team lost valuable test mileage last week and this will most certainly mean that the team are behind the curve ball playing catch up.

If I'm honest, I fear Mclaren have problems which, although not insurmountable, will mean that the team will not be amongst the front runners in 09. I hope I'm wrong, but rarely has a car that has not been quick out of the box gone on to set the track alight during the season proper. 2009 without in season testing will make the season doubly difficult for the current WDC.

Just my view

I'm arguing that before you can say there are problems, you have to explain why they're not running the package that supposedly has a problem.

Because the problem would be a modelling problem, and they would have to run it to even know the model had a problem, and then to generate data to fix it.

Too risky to wait unitl Jerez surely, in case it's washed out.

Also they would not inflict that cruelty on their fans

I think the signs are that they have some problems given the amount of aero validation the are undertaking on track and the fact thaey have reverted back to the 2008 spec rear wing.

If McLaren had not run their 2009 spec wing at all then i would state that they are waiting until the last moment to surprise the competition, but fact is they did, and it did not provide the results their wind tunnel expected.

I am not having a bash at Mclaren, just using common sense here. Of course no one knows for sure what is happening except McLaren themselves.

Given the testing restrictions this season, a team that starts on the back foot will have a very hard time developing their car to the front again. Especially if their aero modelling has already not produced the on track results that were simulated. Makes it very hard to develop if you have to question your own modelling.

They are not in an enviable position right now. But that is just my opinion. This time last year we saw a very different McLaren.

Gotta hate the i told you so brigade

yes it is, well its quite easy to solve, mclaren just has to totally dominate the barcelona test, both qual laps and long runs

This thread has gone literally nowhere in the last few pages....

Thanks for your earlier reply Femi. I am somehow comfortably reassured by your optimism and time will tell whether your right or not.
I certainly feel that the way Mclaren are going testing is quite brilliant and it seems to me they are doing a lot of calibration now to ensure they can continue with their development once the pre season track testing is over. They will need to bring developments to the car that they are confident will produce improvements with only friday running to fine tune them.

I am looking forward to this weeks test and fingers crossed your right and they show at least some of their hand towards the end of Barcelona.

If that Renault turns out to be as quick as last weeks test made it appear, then it makes a mockery of the old adage "If it looks right it goes right"...it is the ugliest car I have ever seen.

The "I told you so brigade" will come later, but it's a question who will be in it, you or your opposition.

And how much fun is it to say "I don't know"?

It's been a nice little mystery, get the most out of it I say.

http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/6jy0of223.jpg

Well they have the 2009 wing on for now!

Is it a new one?

Air inlets looks smaller.

Looks like it.

Actually, no, it's the same.

I'm getting old

I love all these McLaren fans thinking McLaren have something amazing up their sleeve but ignoring the fact that the other teams could well do as well.

i'm no mclaren fan ... but ... y cant they ignore that . ? ( its more like they are more concerned about being so low in the timesheets )

That's a false statement. I and most of us don't think they have something amazing up their sleeve, only something, which will be average at least IMO. And I never ignored that other teams also introduces updates. I see the same approach from other McLaren fans.

Don't take the (troll) bait

Yeh, don't think you're being fair with that comment to be honest Madras. Read mine (and other Mac fans) posts.

I appologise, I don't mean all McLaren fans. But there are a certain few and we all know who they are.

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...309100204.shtml

If McLaren had the "bad luck", that they couldn´t set fast lap-times...why should Haug take that as appologize...???

If I were McLaren I would take this under-estimation as advantage and wouldn´t say anything...

My opinion: McLaren is in trouble RIGHT NOW...which doesn´t mean, that they will be in trouble at the beginning of the season as well...

What Haug said was complete nonsense anyway.

"Whenever the track conditions were the fastest and the best times were set, our car was always in the box (pits)," the German insisted to Auto Motor und Sport after last week's Jerez test."

Why not get the car on track then

i am cautiously optimistic about the mp4/24. while there are signs that support the logic that all is not well with the car, there are also facts that aren't compatible with this.

remember the exhaust outlets of the launch car? afaik this has not been extensively used in any of the tests. it does not make sense or mclaren to produce that part just for the launch, say for the reason of fooling competitors because that would have only fooled them for a few days. i also don't think that is a sign of the concept not working at all, because if something is not right, then they would have tested that configuration more, rather than abandoning it completely.

combine this with the question marks over the filler in the diffuser that some people have spotted, and their running of the modified 08 wing, all these point to something very strange about the rear and their testing methodology, but not really consistent with a team that's suffering from serious problems.

the team would not have tested so many permutations of front wings in the last couple of days if there is something seriously wrong with the rear aero of the car. to me, it seems like they have been hard at work in designing different wings for different races, which is a positive signal to me, not a sign of panic or desperation.

The exhaust outlets at launch - they developed a better version and have used that since.

The diffuser is slightly odd but then again other teams have run basic diffusers too. The 08 rear wing is almost certainly because of 09 wing problem hampering the drivability of the car.

The front wing development is something we have seen with all teams - look at Toyota today. Just because they are having problems with the rear does not mean they should forget about the front.


If I was a McLaren fan I would not be sure what was happening. All I know is the car looks fugly, and fugly cars are not usually winners.

in your opinion.

To not to show how slow it is.

That's one of several possible explanations, of course.

Trying to keep the trolls out of it, does it look like Kovalainen is running with a barn door of a rear wing today compared to the opposition or is it just me?

Madras, you are trolling and are spoiling the thread so you have been reported to the Mods.

Anyway back on the car MP4-24



We must have cooling issues cause the pod inlets are now huge, and we still need an extra cooling inlet which has gotta spoil the air flow around and to the rear of the car. Maybe they've made mistakes in their thermal calculations?

They are running the 09 wing again today. Times still slow, and no new visible developments on the car.

Yea i guess they are trying to sort out the stalling issue.

This is the first Barca day, probably some baseline with known equipment, and on 2nd or 3rd day we will see something new on the car.

The inlets are so huge, I'm wondering if some of the air is going straight through to the diffuser...

If they are testing the KERS that could explain what HK is doing - slowing down at the Start/Finish line and building up the pace and then using the KERS to see the difference KERS makes to the pace in a straight line.

More than likely, they could be seeing how effective it is in a start line situation. They cant use it right from standstill because of the wheelspin issue so just slowing down over the start/finish line will give them a good idea when it can kick in and its effects.

Guys, rather than spending a whole page adding further garbage by talking about trolls and quoting troll posts, if you have a problem with a post/poster report it to the mods rather than polluting threads any further, thank you.

http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119318.jpg

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/73632

Heikki doesnt seem too worried...

The sidepods aren't /that/ big, it just looks that way because of the refections. What is curious, though, is the little cooling slot under the car's left sidepod (our right side), which seems to be something I don't remember seeing before.