Add narrow back-wing and it won't look so good but still it's will probably be the best looking car with 2009 aero.

Just a comment on the P11 rendering, it won't look like that .

McKieran on the loss of downforce: ''When we first tried out the 2009 model in the windtunnel we had lost well over 50% of downforce.''

On the new frontwing: ''For such a radically new frontwing you basically have to develop a new understanding. First of all you have to understand how the wing behaves during the entire time the car goes through a corner. But the wing also dictates the stream of air underneeth the car as well as how the several flows of air interact with each other when they go round the car. In the past we used to have very clear devices to control and canalise the airflow. Now we have to achieve this with other parts while the aims that you're willing to achieve remain the same. So this process is actually a lot harder.''

On the never ending development in F1: ''In the first weeks and months the rate of development will still be very high. The teams will very quickly be making very big steps forward because the optimisation process is still only in its infancy. Two or three weeks of work in the windtunnel will result in a completely new floor each time. And completely new front wings will follow in the rhythm of only weeks also.''

Fry: ''In between their launches and the first race of the season all the cars will look differently.''

The big teams are expected to come to Melbourne with around 80% of the 2008 downforce levels. But it will be a lot harder to gain bits of downforce since there's a lot less to work on. Fry: ''We will see updates that comprise of bigger parts. You can no longer adjust details such as to the turning vanes. So the teams will be bringing a completely new floor or completely different big bodywork parts straight away.''

De la Rosa on the slick tyres: ''Obviously the slicks first and foremost offer more grip. So in all, despite the reduced aerodynamic downforce, we won't be having that much less grip at all. But the balance between the front and rearend of the car shifts completely. Going into a corner with slicks you have a very stable front end and a lot of traction coming out of it.''

On McLaren still using tyre warmers: ''We continue to use tyre warmers during testing because like that it's easier to warm up the tyres and especially to keep an eye on the tyre pressure.''

Unlike BMW Sauber, McLaren tries out everything that's different in 2009 step by step. Lall (head of testing) explains: ''In this way we create an understanding of the griplevel of the new tyres and how much downforce we're able to generate. Initially we started off at the level we finished the 2008 season at, then part for part we took off the parts that will no longer be allowed. And we used the wings with which we we're able to simulate the 2009 griplevels.''

Fry on KERS: ''In qualifying a good recovery system can bring you four tenths. On tracks with a long straight before the first corner that can make a difference of 20 metres, so that's comfortably three places on the grid.''

At some tracks KERS may not be so useful, for instance when you need to brake a lot and have to do so hard. De la Rosa on his experience with KERS: ''KERS has got to recharge itself again. At first there emerges additional resistance under braking. You somehow have to compensate for that. There should be a lot more interaction between the engine braking and the brake proportioning.''

''You don't simply go faster by the use of KERS. You precisely have to balance the use of it. If you don't do that it all happens too abruptly. The biggest difficulty is to even out the (use of KERS on) all the passages (of the track) by as much as possible.''

There's a lot of room for improvement in the development of KERS. Källenius: ''Contrary to what's the case with the engine there's complete freedom when it comes to developing KERS. During the season all of the teams will bring their systems to a new level on a number of occasions.''

Lowe sees things from a different perspective: ''Because the power and the energy are limited the entire performance gain of KERS is limited as well. Once you've gotten to grips with the theoratical maximum of additional power of KERS, you can concentrate on obtaining the same effect with less weight, or with a heigher efficiency or with better reliability.''

Fry on the competitiveness in 2009: ''This season the field will definately pull apart. The differences in performance will clearly be bigger. And it's possible that here and there some changes will take place in the pecking order as well.''

So tyre warmers are finally banned? I lost track...

I believe they're banned next year, yes.

Surely this is worrying, I thought the aim was 50%?

Initially it was, but as time has gone by we've started to realise that 50% was too optimistic...

It was, but every time the FIA say they're cutting X by Y to Z, the teams always manage to get it back to X minus a tiny little bit.

The biggest issue is the airflow. If they can achieve that level of downforce whilst keeping the airflow clean, I don't give a damn about the rest!!

oh, that is new....and contrary to what was agreed upon few months ago
where did that suddenly crop up?

yea, thats wot ive just been thinking, ok cutting downforce helps, but its the air flow that creates the dirty air. These science boffs better have got it right

To be honest I lost track of that one myself too but reading De la Rosa's words, he's talking as if they'll be banned after all...

Its been changed that many times its a farce. I thought it was agreed at the 'future cost cutting' meeting before christmas it was from 2010. But why, if there gonna do it, do it this season.

Yeah I tried to recall what I read about tyre warmers and geez, I think they were meant to be banned for 2007 and then for 2008, and it seemed like they finally banned them for 2009 for a while but after one of the test sessions a lot of drivers complained about the lack of grip on the out lap and it the ban was lifted some time later... I don't recall it being mentioned for a while now, everyone was focused on new aero and KERS... I THINK last I heard was they're not banned after all.. Confusing. Pedro's words don't specifically imply tyre warmers are banned, but the context suggest they are. Could it be that the person wrote that is as confused as we are?

didnt we have an mp4-24 thread already?

Holy .... could any mod transfer the posts from 3804 onwards to the MP4-24 thread ?!

I was going to ask that, I can't find it.

Do you think the MP4-24 will have a longer wheelbase than its predecessor? I ask this because LH revealed unsurprisingly that the philosophy of the car will be changed to make it easier on tire-wear, as slicks will be of a softer compound than the grooved tires.

The World Motor Sport Council met in Monaco on 12 December 2008. The following decisions were taken:

FORMULA ONE WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP

The following measures to reduce costs in Formula One have been agreed by the World Motor Sport Council. These proposed changes have the unanimous agreement of the Formula One teams, who have played a major role in their development. The FIA is grateful to the Formula One Teams' Association (FOTA) and its Chairman Luca di Montezemolo for their incisive contribution.

2010

Race weekend

Standardised radio and telemetry systems.

Ban on tyre warmers

Ban on mechanical purging of tyres.

Ban on refueling.

Possible reduction in race distance or duration (proposal to follow market research).

Thanks! I missed that one.

There's NO BAN on tire warmers in 2008 then.

No there wasnt. Nor 2009.

Here we are again

As far as I understand it, they need to weight up the big front tyres, so with kers at the back/middle they have to lengthen the wheelbase behind the driver to achieve that. Is that right, any engineers?

Done

Thanks, Bumper. It's important to find the right place to be confused in, lol.


BTW, Is there a place I can bet money on 2010 tyre warmers ban being postponed till 2011?

Their going to ban tyres That should be interesting.

Yeah, it's all in the name of cost cutting. My source in BMW sent me a drawing showing 2010 floor, it's a completely new system for F1, although it was quite common thousands years ago.

Yep sure looks a lot like a fancy Chrysler Crossfire, perhaps they forget the split of Daimler and Chrysler?

McLaren sure have some work to do to stop being defeated by the Gumpert in the supercar manufacturing stakes...

I meant 2009 of course

But the interview from Pedro suggest it would be banned in 2009!
Maybe Pedro is confused or the Interviewer or FIA or the Fans

Cheers !

There is a countdown on Mclarens site. Just 7 days until mp4-24

Just saw it and double , seriously can't wait. Plus Ferrari are showing their hand early so i'm sure autosport will have an in depth comparison between Mac and them

Sounds like flywheel Batteries for McMerc then i guess this enplanes why they don't have an more obvious cooling as opposed to Ferrari who had the snorkel thingy..

Interesting. The first team to confirm which type of system they're running.

What are Flywheel batteries when they are at home.

williams have gone the flywheel route, its been know for *along* time ;)

Dennis sounds so confident that it's frightening.

Yeah, it smells like '88...

The energy is stored in the flywheel, then converted to electricity for delivery. So they can put it anywhere in the car and connect it by electric cable (though the cable is heavy and probably runs hot so they can't get too carried away).

How is that more beneficial then using a pure battery method?


So McLarens method is near to Williams solution, but it seems without there publicised problems

Except Lewis and Heikki aren't Senna and Prost.

This was my first thought too, but ATM_Andy more or less said they had batteries in the sidepods (room for manoevre I suppose in his exact words ), also don't all the kers systems have to be connected to the car's main transmission by a CVT transmission? That could count as the "mechanical" bit, possibly...

Just aware that Ron didn't say "flywheel" - could have, but didn't. So I'm not sure either way. Hope it is a flywheel though, with gyroscopic body damping or steering

How all the various pros and cons work out I don't know, on the flywheel battery there are conversion losses, but on the batteries they are struggling to charge and discharge them fast enough without overheating them. Also the batteries deteriorate very quickly being used so hard, even during one race it seems. Plus not sure but the batteries may need higher voltages in the system making insulation more difficult.

But Mac must be using an electromotor to deliver the drive, like everyone except Williams, and Ron thinks his cooling and bearings are OK on that, at least. Also his flywheel bearings if he's using one.

From what i understand you have an electrical KERS and the flywheel is the battery? There is a racecar engineering article about this. I think they had 3 flywheels that they used as batteries...

http://www.racecar-engineering.com/article...es-modular.html

Dont worry FIA will ban some things in Mclaren if they are too dominant.I hope they got a good car and let Heikki run light fuel loads.Aint gonna happen

The correct terminology is FES (Flywheel Energy Storage). I wouldn't use the word 'battery' as that is something completely different.

Yeah, but I meant the car. Good for McLaren supporters, not so good for the rest and the show after such wonderful 2 seasons.

Qualifying won't have the fuel bias anymore.

Great We dont have to speculate no more who got what load and etc. Back to qualifying being interesting.

I've completely lost track of some of the changes for next year. What are the Q rules?