Good day all!
I've read from the Mac release that they've tested a "new front wing, floor and top body" yesterday. Well, I've been following the discussions in here quite closely and saw the floor and new exhaust outlets (this is the new top body, yeah?). But I honestly didn't see the difference in the new front wing. Admittedly I scanned some of the pages rather briefly, but I couldn't find anyone else pointing out the difference either.
So how about it? Did anyone see the difference and would you mind pointing it out to me, please?
BTW, I'm feeling (very) cautiously optimistic after seeing them bring the floor etc to the new car. If they did do longer runs (or even shorter runs with a bit more gas) then I think I can forgive their times of yesterday. But at some point in the this test, I would like them to post a respectable time with a 09 compliant car. Or if the really want to spoil us, do a respectable longish stint with an 09 car. It doesn't have to be the fastest, just respectable. I like this team very much, but I do realise they are quite capable of up the odd year.
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I'm only a casual follower of the McLaren cars but isn't that the same one that they tested last week?
Nevermind, just noticed that photo is from the 5th..
Nevermind, just noticed that photo is from the 5th..
Those huge exhausts remind me of the 5 inch ones you get on the back of a Corsa just leaving Halfords rather than an F-15.
Although the changes they have made this week are very interesting and "radical" I do think that at this stage they should be refining what they already have rather than being in a position where they have to do such large changes and then possibly go one step forward and two steps back. Presumably they are working on concepts put forward by the other cars as well, so I hope they have enough computational power to be able to make the right decisions quickly or else we may find out that the car that starts in Melbourne goes back to losing most on these innovations.
We'll know if they manage that as there should be a big step in performance and then the car "shape" will then be more set in stone for the rest of the year.
I'd like to see them make good progress this week as the Lewis / Massa battle last year was fantastic and I want more of the same.
Regards
Andy
Although the changes they have made this week are very interesting and "radical" I do think that at this stage they should be refining what they already have rather than being in a position where they have to do such large changes and then possibly go one step forward and two steps back. Presumably they are working on concepts put forward by the other cars as well, so I hope they have enough computational power to be able to make the right decisions quickly or else we may find out that the car that starts in Melbourne goes back to losing most on these innovations.
We'll know if they manage that as there should be a big step in performance and then the car "shape" will then be more set in stone for the rest of the year.
I'd like to see them make good progress this week as the Lewis / Massa battle last year was fantastic and I want more of the same.
Regards
Andy
Originally posted by AndyW35
Although the changes they have made this week are very interesting and "radical" I do think that at this stage they should be refining what they already have rather than being in a position where they have to do such large changes and then possibly go one step forward and two steps back.
Although the changes they have made this week are very interesting and "radical" I do think that at this stage they should be refining what they already have rather than being in a position where they have to do such large changes and then possibly go one step forward and two steps back.
I truly doubt that this radical floor was developed in the past days. Me thinks it has been planned way ahead of schedule (ie, before the Winter Testing Season).
Originally posted by killfile
It's a pretty trick solution and would need integration into the overall aero concept, so it's not a simple job by any means. If this is a purely Mclaren-only innovation and has to be copied, it's possible that a team with enough R&D resources - say Ferrari or BMW - could have it for Melbourne, but it'd be a risk and it'd be at the expense of whatever they have planned themselves.
Of course, all the teams have the same set of rules, so it's entirely possible someone else has independently come up with the idea and will deploy it at the next test.
It's a pretty trick solution and would need integration into the overall aero concept, so it's not a simple job by any means. If this is a purely Mclaren-only innovation and has to be copied, it's possible that a team with enough R&D resources - say Ferrari or BMW - could have it for Melbourne, but it'd be a risk and it'd be at the expense of whatever they have planned themselves.
Of course, all the teams have the same set of rules, so it's entirely possible someone else has independently come up with the idea and will deploy it at the next test.
Thanks killfile,
So does the appearance of this floor explain a lot of Mclaren's testing behavior? I'm thinking that the 2009 rear wings are designed to offer low downforce/low drag and would not work without a lot of diffuser generated downforce. The dihedral wings tested already did not fail - they simply weren't designed to work with that rear end and were merely put on the cars to confirm behavior using flo-vis? Following on, that the diffuser needs to have it's volume reduced as without the cut outs there's not enough airflow through it to work with it's normal volume. And that whilst the 08 rear wing could be used to simulate the downforce/drag coefficient expected of the new package, no 09 alternative could without the whole integrated package?
Does this mean that without the definitive 09 diffuser, the team were still only testing parts yesterday without getting 75% of the performance benefits? As in they were sticking a barn door of a rear wing on and generating large amounts of drag when they should not need to when the package comes together. Finally, when the whole rear aero package is on the car, will we see the reintroduction of the four element front wing with the increased downforce we can expect from that?
It seems to an uneducated outsider that the floor and diffuser really are the key to everything we have seen from the team so far and that, should they work as simulations have suggested, the gains will be substantial - indeed current form would be thrown completely out of the window.
Originally posted by airwise
Finally, when the whole rear aero package is on the car, will we see the reintroduction of the four element front wing with the increased downforce we can expect from that?
Finally, when the whole rear aero package is on the car, will we see the reintroduction of the four element front wing with the increased downforce we can expect from that?
They used that wing on the afternoon session.
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...2/diapo_162.jpg
Thanks I'd missed that. Damn I hope a new diffuser is the glue that holds this all together....
Originally posted by airwise
Thanks killfile,
So does the appearance of this floor explain a lot of Mclaren's testing behavior? I'm thinking that the 2009 rear wings are designed to offer low downforce/low drag and would not work without a lot of diffuser generated downforce. The dihedral wings tested already did not fail - they simply weren't designed to work with that rear end and were merely put on the cars to confirm behavior using flo-vis? Following on, that the diffuser needs to have it's volume reduced as without the cut outs there's not enough airflow through it to work with it's normal volume. And that whilst the 08 rear wing could be used to simulate the downforce/drag coefficient expected of the new package, no 09 alternative could without the whole integrated package?
Does this mean that without the definitive 09 diffuser, the team were still only testing parts yesterday without getting 75% of the performance benefits? As in they were sticking a barn door of a rear wing on and generating large amounts of drag when they should not need to when the package comes together. Finally, when the whole rear aero package is on the car, will we see the reintroduction of the four element front wing with the increased downforce we can expect from that?
It seems to an uneducated outsider that the floor and diffuser really are the key to everything we have seen from the team so far and that, should they work as simulations have suggested, the gains will be substantial - indeed current form would be thrown completely out of the window.
Thanks killfile,
So does the appearance of this floor explain a lot of Mclaren's testing behavior? I'm thinking that the 2009 rear wings are designed to offer low downforce/low drag and would not work without a lot of diffuser generated downforce. The dihedral wings tested already did not fail - they simply weren't designed to work with that rear end and were merely put on the cars to confirm behavior using flo-vis? Following on, that the diffuser needs to have it's volume reduced as without the cut outs there's not enough airflow through it to work with it's normal volume. And that whilst the 08 rear wing could be used to simulate the downforce/drag coefficient expected of the new package, no 09 alternative could without the whole integrated package?
Does this mean that without the definitive 09 diffuser, the team were still only testing parts yesterday without getting 75% of the performance benefits? As in they were sticking a barn door of a rear wing on and generating large amounts of drag when they should not need to when the package comes together. Finally, when the whole rear aero package is on the car, will we see the reintroduction of the four element front wing with the increased downforce we can expect from that?
It seems to an uneducated outsider that the floor and diffuser really are the key to everything we have seen from the team so far and that, should they work as simulations have suggested, the gains will be substantial - indeed current form would be thrown completely out of the window.
Let's hope what you suggest is true. If not, we at least have a pretty car ;)
Killfile very interesting indeed.
BTW is the cuts on the floor also works as the air flow feeder to the rear diffuser? I mena that the 2009 diffuser have got this starting line of 'upwards bend' parrallel to the rear wheel axis (which is relative to all teams) and if this cuts are providig more dynamic airflow towards the diffuser, it will be an ingenios solution. Yet the question indeed is, it it works in that way...
Rear wheekl is turning at the speed in such a way that it will not allow any upwards flow just where the floor meets the tyre, that could mean that the air sucked in to the floor through the cuts are now guided towards the diffuser...
Considering your knowledgefull point that air is like a electricity that chooses poath with smallest flictons, I could imagine that in reality the air will NOT do under the floor at that point of cuts, rather the air that are already under floor from the ront end of the car escapes towars outside therefore reducing the airflow therfore shortage of downforce that Diffucer can generate hence current sturggle of Mclaren race cars...
BTW is the cuts on the floor also works as the air flow feeder to the rear diffuser? I mena that the 2009 diffuser have got this starting line of 'upwards bend' parrallel to the rear wheel axis (which is relative to all teams) and if this cuts are providig more dynamic airflow towards the diffuser, it will be an ingenios solution. Yet the question indeed is, it it works in that way...
Rear wheekl is turning at the speed in such a way that it will not allow any upwards flow just where the floor meets the tyre, that could mean that the air sucked in to the floor through the cuts are now guided towards the diffuser...
Considering your knowledgefull point that air is like a electricity that chooses poath with smallest flictons, I could imagine that in reality the air will NOT do under the floor at that point of cuts, rather the air that are already under floor from the ront end of the car escapes towars outside therefore reducing the airflow therfore shortage of downforce that Diffucer can generate hence current sturggle of Mclaren race cars...
Originally posted by Enkei
If not, we at least have a pretty car ;)
If not, we at least have a pretty car ;)
Not enough for me.....
Keep the faith in McMerc!!!!!!
Regards and good Luck... we are going to need.
Originally posted by P1McLarenMercedes
don't know if this has been posted.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...310093101.shtml
don't know if this has been posted.
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...310093101.shtml
Pedro de la Rosa played down the speculation in interview with the Spanish newspaper AS.
"Nobody knows what everybody else is doing in the testing," he said. "We are relaxed and plan many changes before the start of the season."
De la Rosa insists the recent chopping and changing of rear wings does not suggest an inherent problem with the rear of the car.
"We are doing a lot of comparative work with different configurations. What has surprised us is that other teams are not doing the same," he added.
Originally posted by kids like ash
sidepod shields
http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/200...z1236675647.jpg
sidepod shields
http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/200...z1236675647.jpg
Likely to make the new rear aero less yaw-sensitive.
Originally posted by mkay
I truly doubt that this radical floor was developed in the past days. Me thinks it has been planned way ahead of schedule (ie, before the Winter Testing Season).
I truly doubt that this radical floor was developed in the past days. Me thinks it has been planned way ahead of schedule (ie, before the Winter Testing Season).
I truly doubt it was planned ahead of schedule. Me thinks it was just one of many options to be considered and to solve problems a lot of these options are now seeing the light of day.
Regards
Adny
Is that rear wing trailing edge detailing typical?
Dont know how myself and everyone else have missed this, new nose cone and front wing uprights, wider nose it looks like, theres definitely more black paint up the sides and around the base of it, anyone else see what i mean?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
Originally posted by AndyW35
I truly doubt it was planned ahead of schedule. Me thinks it was just one of many options to be considered and to solve problems a lot of these options are now seeing the light of day.
Regards
Adny
I truly doubt it was planned ahead of schedule. Me thinks it was just one of many options to be considered and to solve problems a lot of these options are now seeing the light of day.
Regards
Adny
i think it was planned ahead, I saw the Haug quote about floor-diffusor solution for downforce a while back
Originally posted by killfile
Likely to make the new rear aero less yaw-sensitive.
Likely to make the new rear aero less yaw-sensitive.
Can you explain this effect?
Originally posted by dabrasco
i think it was planned ahead, I saw the Haug quote about floor-diffusor solution for downforce a while back
i think it was planned ahead, I saw the Haug quote about floor-diffusor solution for downforce a while back
I doubt very much they would have planned 2 different brand new wings only to each be run for a couple of laps then back to the 2008 wing.
Originally posted by kids like ash
Dont know how myself and everyone else have missed this, new nose cone and front wing uprights, wider nose it looks like, theres definitely more black paint up the sides and around the base of it, anyone else see what i mean?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
Dont know how myself and everyone else have missed this, new nose cone and front wing uprights, wider nose it looks like, theres definitely more black paint up the sides and around the base of it, anyone else see what i mean?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
The nose does look wider but whether they have used it earlier in the Winter Testing I can't say.
It could be an illusion caused by slight changes in the livery.
Originally posted by kids like ash
Dont know how myself and everyone else have missed this, new nose cone and front wing uprights, wider nose it looks like, theres definitely more black paint up the sides and around the base of it, anyone else see what i mean?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
Dont know how myself and everyone else have missed this, new nose cone and front wing uprights, wider nose it looks like, theres definitely more black paint up the sides and around the base of it, anyone else see what i mean?
http://images.gpupdate.net/large/119469.jpg
Yes, the nose cone has changed with the new front wing. Also the old nose cone didn't have that little air inlet.
Old:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...8/diapo_181.jpg
New:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...2/diapo_190.jpg
Flow-vis test again.
Paintball! 
nice way to show the competition how your aero is working .... i really wonder Mclaren is doing this
Originally posted by Hyatt
nice way to show the competition how your aero is working .... i really wonder Mclaren is doing this
nice way to show the competition how your aero is working .... i really wonder Mclaren is doing this
Hehe, but I don't think it would be of much value to them...
The teams already know each other's philosophies..
They have reduced the height of the rear wing for today; new, old, old:
A little comparison on the nose cones.
The new one is a bit slimmer with a bit of concave curves and has an air inlet too.
The new one is a bit slimmer with a bit of concave curves and has an air inlet too.
New one reminds me of last year's nose, a pomped in version of it.
I like the remote control feature seen HERE at 2:29 into the clip
Jp
Jp
WTF?
great
how cool is that. 
awesome vid
Vodafone advert.
Originally posted by hunnylander
They have reduced the height of the rear wing for today; new, old, old:
They have reduced the height of the rear wing for today; new, old, old:
the wing height is same
its only the camera angle which is causing that illusion!
in relation to the end plates its not camera angle the wing sticks out higher
Originally posted by sreevishnu
the wing height is same
its only the camera angle which is causing that illusion!
the wing height is same
its only the camera angle which is causing that illusion!
No.
See this:
http://forums.autosport.com/showthread.php...558#post3504558
The team used three different rearwings last week. The two new versions were elongated with the supports in such a way that they didn't fit into the current regulations.
In the former version the back plate was higher than the end plates of the rear wing. Now the heights of these are the same. So the height is shortened.
its not the angle, they have run the wing higher, they also did it last year in pre season, i think they have a wind speed messauring installed or something like that
Lots of updates, but does the pace improve? Tomorrow is the big day, a new diffuser is expected right?
Barcelona first day;
1.22.948
second day
1.22.991
One second improvement, I don't think you can gain one second with the same package... They probably didn't unleash whole potential of the MP4-24 (I hope )
1.22.948
second day
1.22.991
One second improvement, I don't think you can gain one second with the same package... They probably didn't unleash whole potential of the MP4-24 (I hope
)
Originally posted by Enkei
Lots of updates, but does the pace improve? Tomorrow is the big day, a new diffuser is expected right?
Lots of updates, but does the pace improve? Tomorrow is the big day, a new diffuser is expected right?
Dunno. 6 testing days to go yet for McLaren. The rivals are finishing their packages already, but McLaren is not yet.
Today they just shortened the rear wing added sidepod shields, and the car was 1 sec faster. (I don't say the improvement came from these changes, I just tell what changed and how changed the fastest laptime of the team.)
What's up with the middle of the rear wing
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_168.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_188.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_168.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_188.jpg
Originally posted by SchumiBoy
What's up with the middle of the rear wing
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_168.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_188.jpg
What's up with the middle of the rear wing
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_168.jpg
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_188.jpg
Very curious design, that. Seems like they are trying to lift up the middle section of the wing to solve the stall issue - presumably, the higher it is, the cleaner the airflow that reaches it. Not an expert on this, but doesn't it introduce two new problems: (i) air flow separation when in yaw and (ii) more drag?
Mclaren look to be after the kitchen sink approach - try everything till they finally find a solution for the rear that works. Pretty soon, we might see an actual kitchen sink (maybe sown off in half) in place of the rear wing.
Great find that. I wouldv'e thought the points mentioned above would make it slower but if they have that much of a problem, it could also be the solution.
Originally posted by SchumiBoy
What's up with the middle of the rear wing
What's up with the middle of the rear wing
This is starting to be ridiculous, how many rearwing's have they been testing ?
I believe you're not actually allowed to have bodywork there...
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