I don't really know what to think at the moment.

I'm really hoping that they do have proper bits yet to fit, and the speed will come, but I can't help thinking that if their proper diffuser was ready they would already be using it by now.

James Allen knows what he's talking about, so if he says they have problems I more inclined to believe him that the Mclaren press briefs.

If Mclaren struggle I know I wont be watching much F1 in 09

Sorry for my bad English, what I wanted to say, James Allen hasn't named the exact day, so he may refer exactly to those actions seen in the Monday video.

So your not really an F1 fan then.

For a lap of around 1:30, it would mean a variance of .27 seconds, plus or minus.

I think McLaren have prepared for a campaign rather than merely designed a car. Not that the others haven't, probably, but it looks there's a difference in degree. They've all said that copying will be done more than usual this year, as everyone has had different ideas and there will gradually be a consensus about which were the best and the cars will become more and more similar. So Mac have prioritised secrecy, especially with no in-season testing making it even more valuable.

The campaign approach explains testing different wings and with flow-vis, the birdcage array and the rest of it. The modelling facilities make all this possible, because as has been said the team just needs to know the models are accurate, then they know how fast they are without actually driving the car.

So for me although it's not impossible there will be a traction problem or something, I'm not going to die that death until it actually comes. If the new diffuser goes on and Lewis isn't quick then I'll start to worry. ATM, nothing easier than lapping slowly.

Though I would like to know exactly what Whitmarsh was referring to that's within 0.3% of reality. Is there some standard measure of flow in cfd or something? Or is it just laptime? About 0.24 sec if so, less than the difference between two drivers. And that's presumably modelled as well.

He was referring to their simulation, CFD and wind tunnel modelling potential and accuracy in relation to development works. So there's a chance of 0.3 % for that, what works in simulation, in CFD modelling and in the wind tunnel, won't work in reality on the track.

I'm more inclined to believe Mclaren know what they're about, are persuing their own programme and retain 100% confidence in them that they'll be competitive in Melbourne. C'mon guys, give it at least a week before starting the defeatist stuff; it's beginning to sound like last years' F2008 thread where every time they have a small mishap half their fans say they're screwed and should sack the bosses or whichever driver didn't perform. When I start to hear rumours from within the team saying they have a problem sourced by reliable and credible observers, then I may start getting worried; James Allen sitting in a grandstand with a Blackberry giving us his usual stream of consciousness routine is not one of them.

JA may not have been a very good commentator, but he is a very good pundit and shouldnt be ignored just because he has said something you don't like.

A probability? It has to be an engineering figure surely, in effect a tolerance.

It's tolerance for sure.

SportBild is still just Bild.

This is incredible, Pedro de La Rosa is satisficied with mclaren car.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is that what the article above says? i can't understand German.

Yeat you have registered in atlas forums and post this? I always wonder people who go on and on about how they are not going to watch...

Which side of the track is considered the 'dirty' side I wonder. My guess is that they are chosing different sides to test launch grip levels during the starts (as other cars are doing in the video too). I'm sure that if you took two identical cars and started them on different sides of the track it would end in the same result.

and to add to that kimi was still rolling before kovalainen and from what i saw kimi didnt even pass they were level when they left the camera shot

-no the article said that lewis will run with a new front wing an exact copy of the ferrari front wing so they can add KERS to it to add 12 kg of front weight which is just
-and also says that mclaren is 1.4 seconds behind the fastest car alonso

here is the extended version of the video...kimi catches heikki quickly and then passes him but this start doesn't mean anything with james allen verdict that mclaren has lack of grip in rear.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihr4yGRMYpo&feature=channel

Again, the information even the video evidence is inconclusive.

Does Allen know who was using KERS or not? It is believed KERS will be a big advantage off the line. Kimi may have been using it and Heikki not. Who know's? Allen doesn't so therefore he comes to a poorly founded conclusion as he did not ask the question.

Allen's assessment of back end grip is a valid one, but the starting line performance is very patchy. I would have expected more from Allen.

I find Scarb's assessment quite interesting.
He seems to think (at Jerez) McLaren were not in the trouble some of the media are trying to suggest and that the days spent working on 2010 regs do not suggest a team in trouble.
As I pointed out in the testing thread some german paper seemed to come to the conclusion that Heikki's day was shocking compared to Alonso's even though they set similar times on similar stints.
As for James Allen, I do think he is quite knowledgable (sp?) when it comes to some things but how often are his great theories proven wrong? His friday testing round ups last year were pretty shocking when it came to being miles behind the ball.
The fact of the matter is that NO ONE knows where McLaren are (McLaren excluded) and I for one am enjoying waking up every morning to check the testing times and see how they are doing.

Why do McLaren even want downforce at the back? Hamilton likes his car to oversteer more.

he may like oversteer, but obviously not too much. otherwise he'll just spin as soon as he acclerates out of corners. Due to lack of downforce heikki/hami have to be gentle with accleration...

Oversteer and lack of rear grip are two different things. Wanting the car to slide a little on entry to a corner consistently comes from a set up preference. Having rear instability under braking or not being able to get the power down on the exit of a corner without the rear wheels spinning uncontrollably is a rear grip problem.

This hopefully will be resolved with the new diffuser/floor/wing combinations they are testing over the next few days

sure?


... and get some tyre wear problem then. Or excesive drag. Or ... I mean it's not straight forward to solve this problems

That's just silly.

Assuming they actually have a problem of course

Others don't do that because everthing works perfect for them?

Still De La Rosa words prove nothing and I think we would know much more if McLaren did qualy simulation in Barcelona. We already know how fast Ferrari & BMW can go.

Exactly. Why would they want you to know more now? Mclaren still have another four day test to do that sort of thing and to show off their Melbourne car. Ferrari and BMW don't.

C'mon, look at the diffusers of BGP, Williams and Toyota. McLaren has only a retarded one compared to them. Anyway diffuser introduces significantly less drag compared to e.g. the rear wing. A tricky überdiffuser (if the rules allow it) is quite a must have in the new regs formula, IMO. I will be very surprised if McLaren will use the current infill panel fitted simple one in Melbourne.

Ferrari, BMW, Renault also have pretty basic ones that don't take advantage of the Williams/Toyota/Honda loophole. Time is running out and I don't expect any of them to make such changes before the start of the season

Either way. the amount of ground Kimi picked up on Heikki there is extreme. If that was down purely to KERS being enabled, then that speaks well of Ferrari's KERS. It's not conclusive, but put it this way, I'd much rather be a Ferrari fan seeing that, than a McLaren one. Because that pattern (at the start) was repeated a number of times... And with McLaren talking about how great their KERS is, why would they take practice starts with it turned off and waste valuable data gathering?

from autosport.com

McLaren also had a discreet day, with Heikki Kovalainen again near the bottom of the times after 88 laps.

"We are running through a big programme in Barcelona this week," said McLaren Racing managing director Jonathan Neale. "Not only have we introduced a new series of aerodynamic components to MP4-24 but we have also been working on the car's set-up and balance over longer runs as well as rehearsing our pitstop procedures.

"It's been a very productive few days with Heikki in the car and we are hoping for an equally satisfactory conclusion to the week when Lewis takes to the track tomorrow."

Haug admits McLaren need to make gains here

"For sure we are not yet where we want to be," Haug, Mercedes' motor racing chief, told Bild newspaper.

Edit: beaten to it

Hmm..., Bild are notorious liers.

Agree, can't stand his commentary but he's a good F1 writer.

That's why they're the best selling paper in Europe

Could explain the Sun, NOTW and Daily Mail in this country...

Renault has just introduced a new one on last week in Jerez. Also Ferrari and BMW did nothing infill panel fitted diffuser mistery with theirs. And they didn't cut the floor either. Also they didn't talk about similar things what Haug said weeks before. [McLaren is working on a completely new interaction between the floor and the rearwing. That's were most potential is hidden. Haug: ''In the coming weeks our car will transform. We very accurately know what can still be expected in terms of downforce levels.'']

PdlR, recently: "We are relaxed and plan many changes before the start of the season."

Sam Michael hasn't said every team will copy their rule interpretation, but said he will be staggered if at least half of the grid won't use similar diffuser. Williams, Toyota and BGP is not half of the grid.

But that´s not because of their news about F1.

Barcelona Test - 10th March 2009
A continuation of yesterday’s programme, running the new front wing, floor and top body. The team focused on pitstop practice in the early morning while the track was still damp before continuing the set-up work conducted on Monday. Lewis joins the test tomorrow and will run a similar programme to today. “We are running through a big programme in Barcelona this week,” said McLaren Racing managing director Jonathan Neale. “Not only have we introduced a new series of aerodynamic components to MP4-24 but we have also been working on the car’s set-up and balance over longer runs as well as rehearsing our pitstop procedures. It’s been a very productive few days with Heikki in the car and we are hoping for an equally satisfactory conclusion to the week when Lewis takes to the track tomorrow.”

Hamilton just done a 1.21.6 so they are getting it together

And compare that time to what HK did on Monday; the team is making progress and they have improved by nearly 2 seconds. Ferrari test driver Marc Gene said that any aero updates cannot bring you more than 0.5 seconds If LH can touch 1:20 and do long runs in the high 1:20s and low 1:21s then it can be said that the team will be competitive come Melbourne.

2 seconds is a lot in 2 days. I reckon they were heavy on fuel on Monday.

Yes. Or they have brought in new aero parts and trying them out systematically. They still could bring in more aero parts because they have Jerez test next week.

if haug really said that, it might just mean that they have more parts planned and they will be where they want to be in due time.

I dont think Mcs are totally out of pace, like many others think (or desire).

They used to be EVERY winter very CLOSE to the top of the time sheets, they dont NEED to do media laps, they used to have good (fast) cars so times came naturally.

That's what has change this winter IMO. But we dont know WHY.

- sandbagging
- real problems.


I really enjoy this threads, and winter testing is more interesting than half the GPs