at least the Mp4/24-thread overtook the F60-thread ;) ... thanks to transparent wings and bad testing-times ...

Sounds like it..?? So no major updated for the next test and just setup work? Doesn't sound good at all.

I must say I'm shocked at that... I thought McLaren were a bit behind the curve, but I didn't think they had shot their bolt in terms of their developments. I thought they had a lot more to come

well i guess if the car is slow then its not so great, but they walked away with the title last year so the gamble has already paid off...

ahh yes i forgot but actually some people in here did indeed question the concept when the car was presented

I don't know how you guys managed to glean "final" from that statement?

Bearing in mind RD also said they were not trying to top the testing tables, I feel better now, the gap isn't as bad as it was looking like it would be.

I'm not feeling so bad about McLaren after today.....though it would have been better if Lewis didn't see fit to doing some alteration to the package also..

You can rub salt in my wounds in a month or two if need be ;)

I sense that 75% of the people claiming McLaren are in trouble WANT McLaren to be in trouble so in many examples it is hardly an objective reasoned debate. Its more like anything convinces these people that there is a crisis.

If that innovative floor, smaller wing and weight distrubution design works, then we are looking at a major ADVANTAGE for McLaren.

It all hinges on if the concept works or not. I don't know but I'd have expected Ron to be a little more circumspect if there was a big problem, even by McLaren PR standards.

Crash.

Hardly. I still remember their press statements from '92 how the MP4/7 would be the most advanced McLaren ever built and how it would leave the FW14 struggling in it's wake...

Well many of us expected some kind of last minute super-fix and it looks like it's not going to happen. If there were major aero updates planned for Jerez Ron wouldn't be referring to what they have on car now as 'Melbourne package'.

I sense that 75% of the people claiming Mclaren are just fine WANT Mclaren to be just fine so in many examples, it is hardly an objective reasoned debate. Its more like anything convinces these people that nothing's wrong.

See how that works?

Not trying to throw blows, here, just that it goes both ways. I think the best solution is to just stay optimistic, but not be too sure of anything, cuz it can lead to disappointment if things dont turn out how you expect. Better to be prepared for the worst, I say.

But 4-7 really was the most advanced McLaren to 1992. Advanced is not equal to fast though...

i think what we are seein is optimism on both sides


pple like as65p, kar etc optimistic that the Mclaren wont challenge their beloved Ferrari or whatever team they support


Mclaren fans optimistic it will be biness as usual


this will continue to the end of the tests n probably till melbourne regardless.


After melbourne, one set of fans will be dissapointed.

Of course you're right in a literal sense. In a way your next car is always the most advanced, naturally.

I was referring to the IMO undisputable fact that it didn't remotely meet the expectations.

I just want some decent close racing. Schuh domination & Senna/Prost/McL domination made for boring seasons.

Actually it's not quite as clear cut... what I don't want to see is a Ferrari-2004-fast McLaren, that's true.

But what I also don't want to see is McLaren outside the top 4 teams. Last year I missed Alonso fighting with Hamilton, now I might miss that another year for opposite reasons :\

Looks like there are three possibilities:

1. This is the Melbourne package, complete, it lacks rear downforce and is slow.
2. This is the Melbourne package just awaiting its new go-faster diffuser which will pull it all together.
3. This is the Melbourne package, it has enough rear downforce but needs setting up to find the traction.

To me it's not certain, from what Ron said, which of these it is. My instinct says 2, because the current diffuser is just too basic. But doubts are creeping in.

Not at all - 2009 car (without TC, wothout active suspension for instance) are not more advanced then 93 car.



Yes, it didn't, but we've talked about integrity of the press-releases. You want me to not believe to team's release and want me to believe an armchair experst form BB? Or to believe to what Bild had wrote?

In fact I can admit the fact of problems in McLaren, but I want to read/hear this from the reliable source, not from James Allen.

I disagree with you there. The innovative floor/wing etc etc is not something that has been officially announced, and may not actually exist, so arguing that everything will be all right is no more reasoned.

MP4-24:

A: A cut in the sides of the floor.

B: The brake ducts have a similar shape as the aerodynamically shaped wheel fairings.

C: There's a slit on both sides of the main plane of the front wing, in a way adding another flap. The endplates are different as well.

D: The planes of the rearwing are more curved and raised in the middle. The supporting elements are new, so are the endplates.

E: Elements on the side of the sidepods.

Ron has been in the game long enough to know that a slow start to the year and a few problems to over come doesn't mean all is lost. McLaren had the quickest car for the best part of 2005, but we didn't see its real potential until Imola, and we didn't start to see (desired) results until round 5, Barcelona.

This year is different and unlike 2005, I think McLaren could mitigate a slow start. I think we'll see a greater mixture of results and performances between the teams, especially in the first half of the season. I wouldn't be surprised to see Ferrari, BMW and Toyota all winning races in the first half of the season and then a completely different picture in the 2nd half, with McLaren, Red Bull and Renault coming on stronger. Unless Ferrari completely dominate, I don't think the title picture will begin to emerge until around Monaco. McLaren may struggle initially, but if they can start winning races around that time (Monaco), they could still haul themselves back into championship contention.

I'm not near my Autosport mags right now, but I remember RD beaming about the new car (doesn't he always?). That sort of confidence has many positive aspects, but it also means you can't count on reason and objectivity, which was my point.

And what I "want you to" is to neither believe the armchairs NOR the team management with their obvious (and natural) agendas. Believe the the timing screens instead...

You got B and C reversed.

I'm affraid it wouldn't work this year. We certanly have quite different approaches here...

So when exactly McLaren will start to become fast again? femi?

Some good pictures of Hamilton's accident:

http://www.pitpass.com/fes_php/pitpass_gallery_display.php

Pictures on Pitpass of the moment of Hamilton's accident. Excellent photos, I must say.

Can't link straight to it for some reason, but really worth checking out. Go here (linky) , click the link for their gallery then click on to page 7 of it.



PS Many thanks AFCA

He said by end of Barcelona test they will be around the top of the time sheets if my memory serves me well..

Femi where are you!!

If I was bothered, I'd be noting down each of the posts that are ridiculing McLaren right now, and add them to a collection of quotes to publish after Melbourne.

But I just can't be bothered , so I'll just laugh and add a sweeping generalization to this thread after the race

That's tough :\
Sir Lewis and Kovalainen are too young to have great development experience.
DoLoRosa is away for too long.
Its difficult to be sure about drivers input.

uhhhmmm... if Alonso was there...

If these testing times are indeed so indicative of true race pace as many here would have us believe, will Brawn GP be multiple race winners and title contenders this season?
If Mclaren are at the bottom of the timing sheets and Brawn GP consistently at or near the top then the logic used by many McLaren detractors in this thread must mean that Brawn GP will have great race form and will be far ahead of McLaren.

Any takers?.......Thought not

twitter-update

Ron's "Don't panic" message actually edged me further to panic :\

Allen, shut up, please! :yawn:

James Allen has always hated McLaren so it's no surprise he's cynical.

His beloved Ferrari will always be his main interest.

The empty vessel makes the loudest sound - William Shakespeare

Quite apt in Allen's case

I admire your confidence - me I cant really think of any reason why McC would be posting consistantly the slowest times unless, you know..they are the slowest.

Several people from the team including Lewis, have said there is work to do - the question for me is can they do it because right now, and being generous, they seem about 1.5 secs off the pace.

Really hope you are right though.

I've been following F1 for 15 years, and I can't even recall such a cockup by a team.
Going from arguably best last season to arguably worst/backmarker, right beside Force India, god.

Guess I will need to find another team to root. After all, it is not like McLaren will start winning races soon.

Not here.
If I remember correctly, Toyota, Red Bull, and BMW have all been at the top of the board after test days (as well as Ferrari). The inconsistency points to a wide open field, and I'm not willing to rule out anyone (even a sandbagging McLaren).

what, and then you just abandon ship

Why not? Some faith, people. :\

You know, "I have a dream ..." and "Yes, we can!" ?

In good and in bad times ...

Everything`s gonna be allright ...

Not after everything that has been said about McLaren and also done on the track.

I'm not a Mclaren fan or anything, but..................neither are you, obviously. I mean, c'mon, true fans stick it out, through thick and thin.

Your heart should tell you which team to root, your not supposed to just pick and choose.

That's just (I suppose) you don't care that much for other teams.

We don't even know yet if McLaren will fall as deep as Ferrari in 2005 or Renault in 2007, to name just two recent examples.

My guess is that they will regularily fight for wins again in the 2nd half of the season.

Isn't that the inscript at the gates of hell?

;)

I don't get this picture, where are exhaust holes? It seems some shadow falls on them from the left side.