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Kop Alonso
Originally posted by mkay
I've been following F1 for 15 years, and I can't even recall such a cockup by a team.
Going from arguably best last season to arguably worst/backmarker, right beside Force India, god.

Guess I will need to find another team to root. After all, it is not like McLaren will start winning races soon.


Find another team to root for before the season has even started ......!

Typical fair weather supporter...I bet you supported Reanult 2 years ago ....

eek.gif
Ricardo F1
Originally posted by Josta


Of course, the natural idea would be to provide engines first, for the good of F1.

Obviously, the good of F1 means nothing to a manufacturer like Merc.

So, see how it goes and act on this.

As it happens, McMerc are shit, and Brawn is good.

So Merc have the decision to make, mclaren at 40% or brawn at 100%

After a few GP's, they will decide.

If McLaren are shit, they will be dropped.

If Brawn outperform Macca, Merc will buy Brawn and forget Macca.

I predict this to be true.
WTF? You think Mercedes will drop McLaren as fickle as that? You have to be joking. lol.gif
Jhope
Originally posted by EvilPhil II
Why not just hire brawn to work at McMerc?


Because he owns a team...
k1ngy
I dont understand why people are talking like Mclaren are going to get as many points as force India this season. They have tested through the winter (just)and havent been giving good results, SO WHAT! They still have another week to do if i remember rightly and also it is the same every year with teams playing the 'look at us we arent very good this winter, blah, blah, blah'
We will all just have to wait and seewhat happens on the 29th March that will be the true teller of all reliabilty etc. We will see if Mclaren are sandbagging, struggling and if brawn are going to be a pocket rocket or just another damp squid!
undersquare
It's way too soon to write off the car for this year. They only need to find something like 0.8 seconds, with such a young car and 5 days of testing that could easily be done. And a new diffuser is still more likely than not.
potmotr
Originally posted by Josta

If McLaren are shit, they will be dropped.



Don't Mercedes have a 40 percent stake in McLaren?

Not to mention a shared history dating back to 1996.

There's no way they'd be dropped for producing one poor car, if in fact that turns out to be the case.
undersquare
Originally posted by EvilPhil II
Why not just hire brawn to work at McMerc?


That wouldn't soothe the wounded soul of a certain Alonso supporter still reliving 2007 every night lol.gif
Talisker
Originally posted by undersquare
It's way too soon to write off the car for this year. They only need to find something like 0.8 seconds, with such a young car and 5 days of testing that could easily be done. And a new diffuser is still more likely than not.


No, they need to find 0.8 seconds more that everyone else is going to find before Melbourne.
mkay
Originally posted by TheHumanPromise

I get what you're saying. You still want to cheer somebody on for the title fight and since Mclaren wont be there, you'll look for somebody to support. I get that. Doesn't mean you have to stop supporting Mclaren, and wouldn't *rather* see Mclaren up there, though, right?

It'd be the same for me if it was something like Toyota vs. BrawnGP for the title. I'd probably start to side with one of them(probably Glock, I like him for some reason), just cuz I find more joy in sport when you've got the ups and downs of supporting somebody, but it doesn't mean I wouldn't rather see BMW or Ferrari up there. I'd still love to see BMW and Ferrari pull in some good results when they can even if they're not challenging for wins.

So I take it back that you're not a real fan. up.gif


Thanks for understanding my point, although I will not stop supporting McLaren at all. This is not what I said. In my dearest wishes, I'd love the team to win every race if possible, but judging from the tests, they might not even win one at all. As for supporting other teams, yes, supporting deserving teams but it does not mean that I will stop supporting or care for McLaren. It just gives another opportunity to enjoy even more Formula 1.


What is extremely painful is the fact that Brawn GP is thrashing McLaren at the moment. Sandbag, media laps or "quest for sponsors" or not, BGP are looking pretty strong at the moment and it pains me to see that McLaren took so many bad decisions (as they appear to be so far) with the budget and the supposed "great technical staff" they have. My bet is that McLaren will start suffering from Newey's departure (as much as I did not want this to ever happen).

Originally posted by Kop Alonso

Find another team to root for before the season has even started ......!
Typical fair weather supporter...I bet you supported Reanult 2 years ago ....
eek.gif


No. In 2005, I was entirely rooting for Kimi and Montoya (my "dream" lineup). In 2006, I was ultimately rooting for the most deserving guy out there, and of course for an eventual McLaren win. Kimi deserved a couple of them, and Montoya pissed the hell out of me. I cheered for Alonso the minute I knew he signed a contract with McLaren for 2007 onwards.

Anyway, ...
SchumiBoy
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_194.jpg

Back of the car today
noikeee
Originally posted by Ricardo F1
WTF? You think Mercedes will drop McLaren as fickle as that? You have to be joking. lol.gif


Yeah I've been talking a lot about Mc being bad this winter, but that reaction is a little extreme. lol.gif
undersquare
Originally posted by Talisker


No, they need to find 0.8 seconds [B]more
that everyone else is going to find before Melbourne. [/B]


Well Ferrari, Toyota and BMW are almost though their testing, how much more time are you expecting them to find? What do you think Brawn have left to find?
peroa
Originally posted by SchumiBoy
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_194.jpg

Back of the car today


That certainly looks different.
bogi
Originally posted by SchumiBoy
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_194.jpg

Back of the car today


This is something new, debuted today.

Anomnader
That still cant be the finished article though
bogi
Originally posted by bogi
There are some pics of MP4-24 diffuser variations.


First solution.


Second solution with some outlet above.


And last one which they use on almost every test.


Updated;

This is from the third day of Barcelona testing (11.03.2009)

Turn 1
Originally posted by mkay


I am a big fan of ManU. True, but I also marginally like Real (mainly for Van Nistelrooy and Zidane).

As for F1, I told you guys I love this team, but how can I fully support it when IT has let me down. From best car to backmarker, barely faster than Toro Rosso and Force India, who operate with a quarter of the budget that McLaren operates with.

I love the team and Hamilton but since they are not going to compete for wins this year, I will also turn my attention to potential winners (I truly want Webber and Trulli to do well, same for Piquet).




i bet you were a.............

farrari fan up untill 2005
renault fan 2005-2006
mac fan 2007-2008
'the fastest team' fan 2009 beyond........

currently a man u fan cos they won tonight
real madrid fan untill they get rid of van nistelroy and zidane

you get the picture!
smile.gif
Anonymous
Originally posted by Anomnader
That still cant be the finished article though


Indeed it looks wierd. :\
SchumiBoy
Originally posted by Anomnader
That still cant be the finished article though


Any particular reason why not ?
Urawa
Originally posted by SchumiBoy


Any particular reason why not ?


They still belieeeeeevvvvvvvveeeeee tongue.gif (or rather wishful thinking/hoping for a miracle)
hunnylander
Originally posted by bogi


This is something new, debuted today.



What's that white line? confused.gif

But it's a sign, they touched the diffuser, so it wasn't a final version till now.
Tenmantaylor
Originally posted by as65p


biggrin.gif

I know, yet I like Tenmantaylors better... more subtle, and gives you the chance to laugh a last time before the eternal sufferings start.wink.gif


Its a British public message poster from WW2. Saw it on a market stall in central London recently and though it summed us Brits up pretty well whilst the bombs were dropping. That its in McLaren rocket red is a complete coincidence biggrin.gif
raiseyourfistfor
Its the same diffuser thats just a reflection
bogi
They're probably making room for upper diffuser section ala Williams style.
SchumiBoy
Originally posted by hunnylander


What's that white line? confused.gif

But it's a sign, they touched the diffuser, so it wasn't a final version till now.


Looks even stranger from this angle

http://www.pitpass.com/images/galleries/20...namar9_s150.jpg
f1rules
im quessing we will see the new one next week not before, but im pretty sure we will se one
bogi
Times from three days of testing;

day 1
01:22.948 (Heikki)

day 2
01:21.991 (Heikki)

day 3
01:21.657 (Lewis)

1,5 sec improvement.
dabrasco
its crazy before the last test, people are not just writing off their whole season, they are writing off Mclaren Mercedes as a partnership, all off testing times....do you guys realize just how ridiculous you sound? lol.gif


even if Brawn GP is faster this year than the Mclaren...Mclaren will still be a much more solid and stable investment for Mercedes, they are the closest thing to Ferrari in F1 in terms of longevity and consistency. They even recently surpassed Ferrari in global fanbase according to a recent poll which bodes well for sponsorship money. though im guessing they will lose a couple of mkay type fairweather fans if they perform poorly this year.


Atleast wait till testing is over...all the gloating n overreaction has become rather sad now
Turn 1
Originally posted by bogi
Times from three days of testing;

day 1
01:22.948 (Heikki)

day 2
01:21.991 (Heikki)

day 3
01:21.657 (Lewis)

1,5 sec improvement.


Means nothing unless they stick it on pole in melbourne.
4MEN
Originally posted by bogi
Times from three days of testing;

day 1
01:22.948 (Heikki)

day 2
01:21.991 (Heikki)

day 3
01:21.657 (Lewis)

1,5 sec improvement.


-Maybe there's more rubber in the tarmac...
-Maybe EVERYONE improved their times...
bogi
Originally posted by 4MEN


-Maybe there's more rubber in the tarmac...
-Maybe EVERYONE improved their times...


Maybe everyone was having a shit...
Crazy Ninja
Originally posted by mkay


I am a big fan of ManU. True, but I also marginally like Real (mainly for Van Nistelrooy and Zidane).

As for F1, I told you guys I love this team, but how can I fully support it when IT has let me down. From best car to backmarker, barely faster than Toro Rosso and Force India, who operate with a quarter of the budget that McLaren operates with.

I love the team and Hamilton but since they are not going to compete for wins this year, I will also turn my attention to potential winners (I truly want Webber and Trulli to do well, same for Piquet).


This is comedy gold my friend. If your team go through a bad patch you root for them even more, you dont start rooting for other teams lol.gif

The team have let you down? I didnt know they had to answer to you :\
How long have you actually been a fan of Mclaren?

Oh yeah, just one more point: the season hasnt actually started yet so i would withold judgement for the time being. I for one am not gonna wirte Mclaren off just yet.
Talisker
Originally posted by mkay
Guess I will need to find another team to root.


I take it you're not Australian, then?
alg7_munif
Seriously, what are some of you guys smoking right now? I would like to try it out. It must be really good since some of you are suggesting that Mercedes, the prestigious german car maker, can't start their own Formula 1 team if they want to so they need to go out and buy a Formula 1 team which was abandoned by a Japanese car maker, Honda. Yeah right, that would be a really good idea for marketing rolleyes.gif

New parts so far:

Front Wing:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_180.jpg

Exhaust:
http://www.imagesforme.com/out.php/i390862_exacover.jpg

Floor:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...2/diapo_140.jpg
http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/6957/1236629142.jpg

Diffusor:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...1/diapo_194.jpg

Rear Wheel cover:
http://www.f1today.nl/fotos/741tkzyl9.jpg

Rear Wing:
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires...7/diapo_168.jpg
as65p
Originally posted by Tenmantaylor


Its a British public message poster from WW2. Saw it on a market stall in central London recently and though it summed us Brits up pretty well whilst the bombs were dropping. That its in McLaren rocket red is a complete coincidence biggrin.gif


up.gif thanks for the info.

Indeed there are some similarities between ordinary british citizens during WW2 and McLaren supporters today. Nothing else to do but carry on regardless and hope for the best.

Then again, even a no-points season for McLaren might not be conisered quite as serious as someone bombing your city.wink.gif
One
bogi, thanx for tis image. I am sorry if this was already knows to everyone, but to me this is the first time...

This is interesting, look at the front end of the center section if the diffuser, the part that meets flat floor...



You see that the start of the center section has some kind o scoop opening, you see the tiangular cut on is profile.
The center section of the diffuser is lower because it has opening towards the upside of the diffuser. Mclaren trid similar solution like toyota and williams just with no ceiling... This did not work right, as they are keep changing.

It seems that the biggest problem of Mclaren is on their floor. ONly thing they did not tried yet seems to me a bloody conventional diffuser design...
as65p
Originally posted by bogi
Times from three days of testing;

day 1
01:22.948 (Heikki)

day 2
01:21.991 (Heikki)

day 3
01:21.657 (Lewis)

1,5 sec improvement.


McLaren maths? It's still only 1,3 sec in real world numbers...

day 1
A. Sutil 1:22.452

day 2
A. Sutil 1:21.834

day 3
G. Fisichella 1:21.545

Then again, they improved by 4 tenths more than Force India. All is not lost. smoking.gif
SchumiBoy
Originally posted by One
bogi, thanx for tis image. I am sorry if this was already knows to everyone, but to me this is the first time...

This is interesting, look at the front end of the center section if the diffuser, the part that meets flat floor...



You see that the start of the center section has some kind o scoop opening, you see the tiangular cut on is profile.
The center section of the diffuser is lower because it has opening towards the upside of the diffuser. Mclaren trid similar solution like toyota and williams just with no ceiling... This did not work right, as they are keep changing.

It seems that the biggest problem of Mclaren is on their floor. ONly thing they did not tried yet seems to me a bloody conventional diffuser design...


In this one it looks like they are trying to close the upper part
http://www.imagesforme.com/out.php/i385182_001.jpg
Anomnader
Originally posted by femi


All that through speculative hypothesyzing.
Here is my prediction, Mclaren will leave a few people scratching heads towards the end of Barca test because of predictions like yours my friend! smile.gif
"issue" facing them.



Well, were heading towards the end of the Barc test, just one day left and atleast you are right, McLaren has left people scratching there heads.

Lets hope they end a bit of confusion tomorrrow up.gif
mclarensmps
I don't think I am able to get over how biblically ignorant and outright stupid some posters are on this forum lol.gif .

This used to be a fantastic place to get tidbits of excellent information, but most of the punters on here nowadays probably have an average age of 13 and are having some real problems dealing with puberty, it seems.
raiseyourfistfor
To me it seems like McLaren have suspension problems in the back instead of aero problems because all the times that they have spun out in training it has been in low speed corners and also it confirms with what JA's has said about them not accelerating out of the corners as quickly as the other cars.
Chubby_Deuce
Originally posted by bogi


Updated;

This is from the third day of Barcelona testing (11.03.2009)


Maybe it's been addressed already but that hole would seem to be where the starter motor is inserted.
HP
Originally posted by undersquare
It's way too soon to write off the car for this year. They only need to find something like 0.8 seconds, with such a young car and 5 days of testing that could easily be done. And a new diffuser is still more likely than not.
Even as Ferrari supporter, I have to agree. It's foolishness to write off McLaren, especially before the season even started. Even if they might be slow to start with (and that remains to be seem), they don't have the same troubles they had with MP4-18.

It all depends on where their current 'problems' are.

Ron Dennis latest comments from yesterday as they appeared on autosport news, seemed to me rather there to confuse people. His explanation on the use of 2008 wing doesn't make any good sense, unless they are confident that their car will work as planned with the 2009 wing. His comment on other teams finalizing their testing is true. Still other teams will not stop working next week. So we have to wait for Melbourne.

As always, the build up to a new season is exciting. Would be boring if we could predict the champions even before the season starts. The more question marks there are, the better.
hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.
Peter Perfect
Originally posted by hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.


Please tell me you don't honestly believe that.
peroa
People here smoke some good stuff or maybe this?
hunnylander
Originally posted by hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.


What a layman! kiss.gif
ashnathan
Originally posted by hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.


Pull your head out of your ass gary.
wonk123
Originally posted by hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.


quick.. buy out FA's contract, that 6 tenths would sure be handy lol
airwise
On the bright side.....

Hamilton was seemingly on a long run yesterday, with a large amount of fuel and with hard tyres. He spun off after eleven laps but looking at the stint times, it seemed he's been on the same fuel load for at least 19. And the times were pretty consistent and pretty quick given the fuel load. Certainly on a par with all but the top two or three runners out there.

The worrying thing was the drop off in performance for the two laps prior to the spin. The tyres seem to be OK in the photos so what caused that?

I suppose it's a bit late, but any chance we can try to keep this thread about the car, and not feed the usual suspects' sad trolling?
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