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hello86
Originally posted by hallo
It looks like Alonso's influence at Mclaren was so strong that it carried them for a year after he left. With the new regulations they seems lost and Hamiltons development handy work has resulted in them proping up the rear of the testing grid. Looks like a painful season ahead for them. Pay back I guess.


No, not Alonso. it was kimi. Or it also could be Monti? Mclaren shoul call him back.wink.gif
Insane111
Originally posted by airwise
On the bright side.....

Hamilton was seemingly on a long run yesterday, with a large amount of fuel and with hard tyres. He spun off after eleven laps but looking at the stint times, it seemed he's been on the same fuel load for at least 19. And the times were pretty consistent and pretty quick given the fuel load. Certainly on a par with all but the top two or three runners out there.

The worrying thing was the drop off in performance for the two laps prior to the spin. The tyres seem to be OK in the photos so what caused that?

I suppose it's a bit late, but any chance we can try to keep this thread about the car, and not feed the usual suspects' sad trolling?


There a link to those laptimes anywhere? Weren't in the testing thread were they? Cheers in advance.
Enkei
Originally posted by airwise
On the bright side.....

Hamilton was seemingly on a long run yesterday, with a large amount of fuel and with hard tyres. He spun off after eleven laps but looking at the stint times, it seemed he's been on the same fuel load for at least 19. And the times were pretty consistent and pretty quick given the fuel load. Certainly on a par with all but the top two or three runners out there.

The worrying thing was the drop off in performance for the two laps prior to the spin. The tyres seem to be OK in the photos so what caused that?

I suppose it's a bit late, but any chance we can try to keep this thread about the car, and not feed the usual suspects' sad trolling?


You mean these?

15:10h
1..22:171
1.23:572
1.22:828
1.22:195
1.22:197
1.22:490
1.22:312
1.22:360
1.24:164
1.27:725
1.24:606
Bandera roja (Suya)

Still nowhere compared to Massa's. He regularly clocked 1:21's on an even longer stint...
Enkei
08:40 - Lewis Hamilton heeft gisteren een lange meeting met zijn engineers gehad. Meer dan drie uur lang praatte de Britse coureur met zijn team over de testdag van gisteren. Na 21:00 uur kwam de Brit pas uit de truck, toen de evaluatie afgelopen was.


Lewis had a long meeting with his engineers yesterday. For over 3 hours he talked about yesterday's test. It was only after 21:00 that Lewis left the truck after the meeting had finished.
bankoq
So what? It's just a small part of great mysterious plan!wink.gif
skid solo
Originally posted by Insane111


There a link to those laptimes anywhere? Weren't in the testing thread were they? Cheers in advance.


Could have been a graining phase. I have seen Lewis doing this before in friday free practice. He slows for a lap and then puts a few quick ones in. Could explain why he subsequently spun off?
airwise
Originally posted by Enkei


You mean these?

15:10h
1..22:171
1.23:572
1.22:828
1.22:195
1.22:197
1.22:490
1.22:312
1.22:360
1.24:164
1.27:725
1.24:606
Bandera roja (Suya)

Still nowhere compared to Massa's. He regularly clocked 1:21's on an even longer stint...


I did say they were not a match for the top two or three - the Ferrari is clearly there but they are four days further on in the lead up to Melbourne.

Mclaren yesterday were around a second off Ferrari in my estimation - but I can't see any evidence that Massa was heavier. Looking at the laptime progression I would guess that Hamilton didn't refuel or change tyres at his stop prior to that run so I'd say a 20 lap plus fuel load at least. And he was on hard tyres. No they aren't yet on the leaders' pace, but I think the potential is there to catch them up prior to arrival in Australia.

The talk of Mclaren's demise is IMHO vastly exaggerated. Hamilton had a long meeting? SO what? That's his job and it was his first day at the test and his first day with the 09 car.
FizzyJerk
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...312084418.shtml

Referring to the Mercedes-powered MP4-24, Ron Dennis told Reuters Television in London on Wednesday: "It is certainly not as fast as we would like it to be."

"But it's early days and we've still got quite a bit of testing to do and quite a bit of development to reflect through into our pace."
Owen
McLaren Stake Everything On Jerez
Thursday 12th March 2009

"Sandbagging" was a term beloved of Mark Blundell. Come the Australian GP in Melbourne each year, the fabled ITV pundit would give us his cheeky cockney wink, refer to a surprisingly slow team and say "I fink they're sandbagging Jim/Steve". Renault were the alleged sandbaggers of 2008. But they got so good at it, that they sandbagged their way through the first five or six rounds of the championship, too.

This year, all eyes are on McLaren. After three days of the all-important Barclona test they have managed to come conclusively bottom, slowest runner of all on two days and second from bottom on Tuesday.
Reports from the track suggest that the new car lacks rear-end grip and that Kovalainen was taking a lot longer to get onto the power after corners than the front-runners. The innate tendency of the new cars in 2009 is to oversteer - the reason being that grippy, slick front tyres give the car far more front end grip than they had in 2008 and the smaller, comedy rear wings don't keep them glued down at the back.

The result is tail-happy cars and ones that are less stable under braking. Even though Lewis Hamilton is a master of oversteer, all that sliding is going to degrade the tyres and lap times will fall off. It's clear to everyone in the pitlane during testing that Mclaren have been having problems with the rear end of their car - not least because they've continued to experiment with the 2008 rear wing at times. And the speculation has got so intense that now Ron Dennis (strangely not new team principal Martin Whitmarsh) has felt the need to comment.

"Whatever performance level McLaren have today we will be a competitive racing team," he told the BBC. "The objective is to go to Australia and be the most competitive car there, not to come out of every single test at the top of the timesheets. Testing is about a disciplined approach to making the car go faster and you have to ignore the performance of the other teams." "Whereas our main competitors are finishing testing in two days we still have the ability to test next week in Jerez. When we get to Australia that will be the first measurement of everyone's performance.

Denying that the team has problems with the 2009 aerodynamic package, he said: "We ran the 2008 rear wing because it was more relevant in its performance to the wing that we are going to have in Australia. It doesn't mean you are lost or that you don't know what you are doing." And now for the quote that will have Mark Blundell sitting on the edge of his new DFS sofa. "We had a strategy for this year to leave it to the last possible moment to produce our aerodynamic package for the Australian Grand Prix," said Ron. "That in itself gave us some production challenges and we have really only started to run the car in the last day with the Australian aero package."

So, if that is the case, then on the final day of testing we should see the McLaren begin to creep up the time sheets. What's more, if Ron's careful calibration of the testing programme is correct, then all of the mechanical stuff is in place, it's just the visible aero tweaks that they're going to pull out of the bag (to borrow a much-loved pundit's phrase).

Jerez is where it's really going to hit the fan. Last year BMW had a pretty average testing programme, but in the final few days came on like the title challenger they proved to be. Renault have shown - with Nelson Piquet slowest one day and Fernando Alonso fastest the next - that testing is not a true reflection of GP pace. And it's very unlikely that the McLaren Mercedes team will be the slowest of the Mercedes runners.

What's more, the resurgent Brawn GP team has shown that you can design a car for a different engine and gearbox, strap a new one in and top the timesheets in only three days of testing. McLaren can do exactly the same in Jerez next week.

Wonder what the weather forecast's like...?

from planet-f1.com

--------------------------------------------------

Looks like it's sh*t or bust then. Gulp.
One


It looks like Mclaren is channeling the air above the diffuser. Perhaps dd not work too well?
peroa
Isn`t this the hot air outlet that was also on the launch car?

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/121619
hunnylander
Originally posted by Owen

Wonder what the weather forecast's like...?


http://www.weather.com/outlook/travel/busi...topnav_business

Sunny cool.gif
Rinehart
Originally posted by undersquare
Looks like there are three possibilities:

1. This is the Melbourne package, complete, it lacks rear downforce and is slow.
2. This is the Melbourne package just awaiting its new go-faster diffuser which will pull it all together.
3. This is the Melbourne package, it has enough rear downforce but needs setting up to find the traction.

To me it's not certain, from what Ron said, which of these it is. My instinct says 2, because the current diffuser is just too basic. But doubts are creeping in.


Or this is the Melbourne package, it works a treat, just the times are limited somehow to hide the performance.
Rinehart
Originally posted by Clatter


I disagree with you there. The innovative floor/wing etc etc is not something that has been officially announced, and may not actually exist, so arguing that everything will be all right is no more reasoned.


Err, I think you might want to read up a little!
Rinehart
Originally posted by as65p


I'm not near my Autosport mags right now, but I remember RD beaming about the new car (doesn't he always?). That sort of confidence has many positive aspects, but it also means you can't count on reason and objectivity, which was my point.

And what I "want you to" is to neither believe the armchairs NOR the team management with their obvious (and natural) agendas. Believe the the timing screens instead...

wink.gif wave.gif


Hey as65p, wanna point us in the direction of any car release by any team where they basically pulled the covers of and said 'tada... this, ladies and gentlemen, is a pile of shit!'
Rinehart
Originally posted by Urawa
So when exactly McLaren will start to become fast again? femi?


Melbourne, Q2.
Rinehart
Originally posted by Apollonius
If these testing times are indeed so indicative of true race pace as many here would have us believe, will Brawn GP be multiple race winners and title contenders this season?


Exactly.

The people focusing on timesheets and claiming McLaren are cooked, are the same people who went mental when Button did a 20.1. Then he did a 19.1. They don't really understand what is going on. They just go hysterical over whatever times are on offer that day. They are also largely the same people who reckoned Vettel would be WDC after 1 day of RBR testing, and I bet, reckoned BMW would be nowhere, if you'd asked them in February 08.
Clatter
Originally posted by Rinehart


Err, I think you might want to read up a little!


Can you show me something from Mac that says a super diffuser is still to be fitted, or that there is a super wing sitting in the garage? The most I've seen is that there are new parts to be fitted, which is normal for this time of year, but that might not leapfrog them up the timesheet.
Rinehart
Originally posted by Josta


Of course, I maybe wrong, but if I were Merc, I would be thinking this.

A team with ross at the helm, a better car than Mac, and up for 100% ownership with minimal cost, I would be dropping the 40% asap.
Merc could sell their 40% for far more than the cost of Brawn GP, and own the entire team.

Mercedes F1 with RB winning constitutes far better PR than 40% of Mac at the back of the grid.


Josta your too normal to be posting this rubbish. You must be having a laugh surely.
Rinehart
Originally posted by dabrasco
its crazy before the last test, people are not just writing off their whole season, they are writing off Mclaren Mercedes as a partnership, all off testing times....do you guys realize just how ridiculous you sound? lol.gif



up.gif
f1rules
"The performance of McLaren and its competitors isn't really going to be known until probably two or three races into the season, even Australia isn't going to be a strong indicator because of course everybody has got gremlins in their car.
"So really it is three or four races before you can really determine who is competitive and who is going to be fighting for the world championship."


oh no, when did we last here this bs from mclaren, when they were in deeb shit
kar
I look forward to a year of comments about 'quantum' steps coming from the mclaren camp. Ron 'wait until the Nurburgring' Dennis' comments in 2006 and his continual underestimation of Ferrari made that race particularly sweet.
Rinehart
Originally posted by Clatter


Can you show me something from Mac that says a super diffuser is still to be fitted, or that there is a super wing sitting in the garage? The most I've seen is that there are new parts to be fitted, which is normal for this time of year, but that might not leapfrog them up the timesheet.


Clatter, your back tracking. You actually said:

"The innovative floor/wing etc etc is not something that has been officially announced, and may not actually exist"

Yet it has been and is already on the car, since Monday. As featured in this weeks Autoport technical analysis.

Your basically claiming that its still to be bolted on if it even exists. Your several days behind buddy.
undersquare
Originally posted by Rinehart


Or this is the Melbourne package, it works a treat, just the times are limited somehow to hide the performance.


There have been so many reports of poor traction out of corners I think that has to be true. I was wondering what they would do to improve it, what would they be discussing in the 3-hour debrief last night.

I wondered if they would move a little bit of weight back. Maybe they overdid the weight-forward thing (and in the pic of the car being lifted it looked a bit nose-down, though could be the guys pulling it or the position of the hoop). Then having moved weight back they would need more rear downforce to balance it, that could come from a new diffuser and the whole car would start to work.

Anyway Lewis has had success before with redoing the setup, after Spa 07, so I wouldn't be suprised if they've found 0.5 or more overnight. And although 'last' looks bad in the listings, the actual time involved isn't much.
Slartibartfast
Originally posted by kar
I look forward to a year of comments about 'quantum' steps coming from the mclaren camp.


Are they employing quantum mechanics?
RoutariEnjinu
A Quantum of progress being the smallest possible step forward right? lol.gif
SchumiBoy
Originally posted by undersquare
so I wouldn't be suprised if they've found 0.5 or more overnight.


So after a few debriefings they would be seconds ahead of the field ??
Clatter
Originally posted by Rinehart


Clatter, your back tracking. You actually said:

"The innovative floor/wing etc etc is not something that has been officially announced, and may not actually exist"

Yet it has been and is already on the car, since Monday. As featured in this weeks Autoport technical analysis.

Your basically claiming that its still to be bolted on if it even exists. Your several days behind buddy.


In that case I'm still waiting to see it produce the goods.

Over the last few weeks many have said don't worry there's a new floor/diffuser/wing etc that will cure all the problems, I still hope thats true, but as yet I see very little evidence of the super improvement. Whilst testing is just that, and the times can't always be taken at face value it doesnt make sense to stick your head in the sand and ignore what we are seeing. If you take all the evidence such as slow times, 2008 wing etc. it all points at them having problems. I don't expect them to be at the back of the grid come Oz, but I remain concerned that they will not be running at the sharp end either.
Slartibartfast
Originally posted by RoutariEnjinu
A Quantum of progress being the smallest possible step forward right? lol.gif


Maybe they'll get a Quantum of Solace from it.
undersquare
Originally posted by SchumiBoy


So after a few debriefings they would be seconds ahead of the field ??


lol.gif no

nought point 5 is half a second tongue.gif
f1rules
Originally posted by kar
I look forward to a year of comments about 'quantum' steps coming from the mclaren camp. Ron 'wait until the Nurburgring' Dennis' comments in 2006 and his continual underestimation of Ferrari made that race particularly sweet.


exactly, i forgotten, 'quantum' steps smile.gif if he uses this term then we are dead roflmao.gif
wewantourdarbyback
Originally posted by Slartibartfast


Maybe they'll get a Quantum of Solace from it.
Perhaps they'll make a Quantum Leap
RoutariEnjinu
Or maybe after giving out their engines to Force India, and Brawn GP, they quantum back... no wait that doesn't work :\
SchumiBoy
Originally posted by undersquare


lol.gif no

nought point 5 is half a second tongue.gif


They have 4 more nights at Jerez. If they gain half a second each night that's quite a lot tongue.gif
undersquare
Originally posted by SchumiBoy


They have 4 more nights at Jerez. If they gain half a second each night that's quite a lot tongue.gif


Aha. This is the kind of quantum thinking they need! Quick! : jonathan.neale@mclaren.com

kiss.gif lol.gif
as65p
Originally posted by Rinehart


Hey as65p, wanna point us in the direction of any car release by any team where they basically pulled the covers of and said 'tada... this, ladies and gentlemen, is a pile of shit!'


Well, YOU were the one apparently expecting RD to be "a bit more circumspect" if the MP4/24 was really having trouble.

Indeed, as you hinted with your above question, such hardly happens, not at the launches and not during the season. It's always "were going to improve..., "new parts arriving...", "wait for ..." regardless of how bad the situation really is.

Statements from the team managment are rarely conclusive indicators to the true situation, that was my point.

Of course, everyone is free to believe that McLaren's relatively slow times so far are part of an incredible cunning plan...

We'll see. If they lock the front row in Melbourne, feel free to shout "I told you so!" a few times. tongue.gif
ATM_Andy
Originally posted by One


It looks like Mclaren is channeling the air above the diffuser. Perhaps dd not work too well?
The theory of using the outlet air to increace the power of the diffuser is actually a sound one, and not a new idea.
vsubravet
Originally posted by Owen
[B]McLaren Stake Everything On Jerez
Thursday 12th March 2009

"Sandbagging" was a term beloved of Mark Blundell. Come the Australian GP in Melbourne each year, the fabled ITV pundit would give us his cheeky cockney wink, refer to a surprisingly slow team and say "I fink they're sandbagging Jim/Steve". Renault were the alleged sandbaggers of 2008. But they got so good at it, that they sandbagged their way through the first five or six rounds of the championship, too.

This year, all eyes are on McLaren. After three days of the all-important Barclona test they have managed to come conclusively bottom, slowest runner of all on two days and second from bottom on Tuesday.
Reports from the track suggest that the new car lacks rear-end grip and that Kovalainen was taking a lot longer to get onto the power after corners than the front-runners. The innate tendency of the new cars in 2009 is to oversteer - the reason being that grippy, slick front tyres give the car far more front end grip than they had in 2008 and the smaller, comedy rear wings don't keep them glued down at the back.

The result is tail-happy cars and ones that are less stable under braking. Even though Lewis Hamilton is a master of oversteer, all that sliding is going to degrade the tyres and lap times will fall off. It's clear to everyone in the pitlane during testing that Mclaren have been having problems with the rear end of their car - not least because they've continued to experiment with the 2008 rear wing at times. And the speculation has got so intense that now Ron Dennis (strangely not new team principal Martin Whitmarsh) has felt the need to comment.

"Whatever performance level McLaren have today we will be a competitive racing team," he told the BBC. "The objective is to go to Australia and be the most competitive car there, not to come out of every single test at the top of the timesheets. Testing is about a disciplined approach to making the car go faster and you have to ignore the performance of the other teams." "Whereas our main competitors are finishing testing in two days we still have the ability to test next week in Jerez. When we get to Australia that will be the first measurement of everyone's performance.

Denying that the team has problems with the 2009 aerodynamic package, he said: "We ran the 2008 rear wing because it was more relevant in its performance to the wing that we are going to have in Australia. It doesn't mean you are lost or that you don't know what you are doing." And now for the quote that will have Mark Blundell sitting on the edge of his new DFS sofa. "We had a strategy for this year to leave it to the last possible moment to produce our aerodynamic package for the Australian Grand Prix," said Ron. "That in itself gave us some production challenges and we have really only started to run the car in the last day with the Australian aero package."

So, if that is the case, then on the final day of testing we should see the McLaren begin to creep up the time sheets. What's more, if Ron's careful calibration of the testing programme is correct, then all of the mechanical stuff is in place, it's just the visible aero tweaks that they're going to pull out of the bag (to borrow a much-loved pundit's phrase).

Jerez is where it's really going to hit the fan. Last year BMW had a pretty average testing programme, but in the final few days came on like the title challenger they proved to be. Renault have shown - with Nelson Piquet slowest one day and Fernando Alonso fastest the next - that testing is not a true reflection of GP pace. And it's very unlikely that the McLaren Mercedes team will be the slowest of the Mercedes runners.

What's more, the resurgent Brawn GP team has shown that you can design a car for a different engine and gearbox, strap a new one in and top the timesheets in only three days of testing. McLaren can do exactly the same in Jerez next week.

Wonder what the weather forecast's like...?

from planet-f1.com

--------------------------------------------------

Looks like it's sh*t or bust then. Gulp. [/B]


The MP4-24 is a bust and that reality is slowly sinking in for all McLaren fans. As to how bad the situation is to be seen; maybe the KERS is the saving grace. As someone mentioned it would really give an opportunity for LH to show his mettle.
peroa
Common, she isn`t even on stage yet.

Rinehart
Originally posted by Clatter


In that case I'm still waiting to see it produce the goods.

Over the last few weeks many have said don't worry there's a new floor/diffuser/wing etc that will cure all the problems, I still hope thats true, but as yet I see very little evidence of the super improvement. Whilst testing is just that, and the times can't always be taken at face value it doesnt make sense to stick your head in the sand and ignore what we are seeing. If you take all the evidence such as slow times, 2008 wing etc. it all points at them having problems. I don't expect them to be at the back of the grid come Oz, but I remain concerned that they will not be running at the sharp end either.


I'm not conciously burying my head in the sand! I think worst case scenario is that they'll drop to sort of Renault levels.

I think with so many parts on the car carried over, (the engine, electronics, Lewis) etc that are known quality, they'd need a rear end designed by a blind man to drop to the back.

I think its largely Atlas bb sensationalism, the car will be top 3 at least come Melbourne.

This is not the first time a quick car has been nowhere in testing.
Rinehart
Originally posted by as65p


Well, YOU were the one apparently expecting RD to be "a bit more circumspect" if the MP4/24 was really having trouble.

Indeed, as you hinted with your above question, such hardly happens, not at the launches and not during the season. It's always "were going to improve..., "new parts arriving...", "wait for ..." regardless of how bad the situation really is.

Statements from the team managment are rarely conclusive indicators to the true situation, that was my point.

Of course, everyone is free to believe that McLaren's relatively slow times so far are part of an incredible cunning plan...

We'll see. If they lock the front row in Melbourne, feel free to shout "I told you so!" a few times. tongue.gif



I was replying in response to the suggestion from someone that McLaren PR is somehow more evil than any other PR department because they apparently never admit they have a problem.

Now it is you that is largely agreeing with me - 'Statements from the team managment are rarely conclusive indicators to the true situation'.

Thats all I was after, thanks!
dentistTubster
As far as I see it, there are three things happening with the Mclaren:

1) They are sandbagging, have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
2) They aren't sandbagging, but they do have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
3) They aren't sandbagging, have no idea why their aero isn't working properly (and why they have no rear end grip), and therefore have tried loads of combinations of rear wing/rear end body to try to find a solution that works. If they can't (certainly in Jerez) then their winter test pace might be somewhere close to what they have in Australia.

And there are also 3 reasons why they have tried loads of different parts:

1) Their messing about with wings etc is to try to put other teams off and get them to try to copy their designs (when Mclaren know that all of the solutions are rubbish). Mclaren actually know exactly where they are and at Jerez will put out their ACTUAL final solution which will make them frontrunners.
2) Their messing about with wings is because they have no idea why their windtunnel data is completely not correlating with the wings at the track (hence the '08 wing - trying to compare data to find some sort of reasonable calibration.
3) Their messing about with wings is because they are testing for future GP which require different downforce levels/solutions.

Make your choice for each one, because personally, I have no idea what Mclaren are doing and why. As far as I see it, there is no way of predicting how fast Macca will be come Melbourne.
KiloWatt
Originally posted by FizzyJerk
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...312084418.shtml

Referring to the Mercedes-powered MP4-24, Ron Dennis told Reuters Television in London on Wednesday: "It is certainly not as fast as we would like it to be."

"But it's early days and we've still got quite a bit of testing to do and quite a bit of development to reflect through into our pace."


confused.gif Early days! Did someone forget to tell him that the season starts in about two week?! Who's he trying to kid?

Oh well. I support Mercedes first and McLaren second. Hopefully I can rely on my good friend RossB.

Where is femi by the way? When shall we schedule the crucifixion?
hunnylander
Originally posted by vsubravet


The MP4-24 is a bust and that reality is slowly sinking in for all McLaren fans. As to how bad the situation is to be seen; maybe the KERS is the saving grace. As someone mentioned it would really give an opportunity for LH to show his mettle.


As the Hungarian says; they will be "coming up as the groundwater", no matter where they are at the moment. smoking.gif
vsubravet
Originally posted by dentistTubster
As far as I see it, there are three things happening with the Mclaren:

1) They are sandbagging, have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
2) They aren't sandbagging, but they do have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
3) They aren't sandbagging, have no idea why their aero isn't working properly (and why they have no rear end grip), and therefore have tried loads of combinations of rear wing/rear end body to try to find a solution that works. If they can't (certainly in Jerez) then their winter test pace might be somewhere close to what they have in Australia.

And there are also 3 reasons why they have tried loads of different parts:

1) Their messing about with wings etc is to try to put other teams off and get them to try to copy their designs (when Mclaren know that all of the solutions are rubbish). Mclaren actually know exactly where they are and at Jerez will put out their ACTUAL final solution which will make them frontrunners.
2) Their messing about with wings is because they have no idea why their windtunnel data is completely not correlating with the wings at the track (hence the '08 wing - trying to compare data to find some sort of reasonable calibration.
3) Their messing about with wings is because they are testing for future GP which require different downforce levels/solutions.

Make your choice for each one, because personally, I have no idea what Mclaren are doing and why. As far as I see it, there is no way of predicting how fast Macca will be come Melbourne.


Excellent post, mate. Sums it up all nicely. I'd pick Point# 3) from the first part and Point# 2) from the second part. Now, all of ya guys toss in your choices an we can have an instant winner by the end of the day.
RedBaron
Originally posted by dentistTubster
As far as I see it, there are three things happening with the Mclaren:

1) They are sandbagging, have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
2) They aren't sandbagging, but they do have some amazing new diffuser and other rear end ancilliaries to come before Melbourne, and will promptly turn up as frontrunners.
3) They aren't sandbagging, have no idea why their aero isn't working properly (and why they have no rear end grip), and therefore have tried loads of combinations of rear wing/rear end body to try to find a solution that works. If they can't (certainly in Jerez) then their winter test pace might be somewhere close to what they have in Australia.

And there are also 3 reasons why they have tried loads of different parts:

1) Their messing about with wings etc is to try to put other teams off and get them to try to copy their designs (when Mclaren know that all of the solutions are rubbish). Mclaren actually know exactly where they are and at Jerez will put out their ACTUAL final solution which will make them frontrunners.
2) Their messing about with wings is because they have no idea why their windtunnel data is completely not correlating with the wings at the track (hence the '08 wing - trying to compare data to find some sort of reasonable calibration.
3) Their messing about with wings is because they are testing for future GP which require different downforce levels/solutions.

Make your choice for each one, because personally, I have no idea what Mclaren are doing and why. As far as I see it, there is no way of predicting how fast Macca will be come Melbourne.


Or Ron Dennis is sabotaging the team now he has stepped back so no-one can match his McLaren achievements. I heard he changed all the locks to the technology centre too and sends all Lewis' calls directly to voicemail.
vsubravet
Oh and by the way, the MP4-24 has overtaken the F-60 in pace --- The respective 'threads' tongue.gif Just check out how this thread has grown by leaps and bounds in the space of a week. We've left the F-60 dead in the water. Got one thing right, at least.;)
f1rules
Originally posted by undersquare


Aha. This is the kind of quantum thinking they need! Quick! : jonathan.neale@mclaren.com

kiss.gif lol.gif


this is actually how the mail works at mclaren so this is probobly his email,
hunnylander
Originally posted by vsubravet
Oh and by the way, the MP4-24 has overtaken the F-60 in pace --- The respective 'threads' tongue.gif Just check out how this thread has grown by leaps and bounds in the space of a week. We've left the F-60 dead in the water. Got one thing right, at least.;)


Never underestimate the power of McLaren...


...PR. cat.gif
skid solo
Originally posted by KiloWatt


confused.gif Early days! Did someone forget to tell him that the season starts in about two week?! Who's he trying to kid?

Oh well. I support Mercedes first and McLaren second. Hopefully I can rely on my good friend RossB.

Where is femi by the way? When shall we schedule the crucifixion?


Yes where is Femi? He is very quiet suddenly. I have tried to stay positive but even I am starting to wonder if it is one big cock up!
Still we have Jerez left to prolong the agony
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