Sure you may repeat what I wrote... but not your very own interpretation!

My feeling (nothing more, really) was and still is that they will be in upper midfield, fighting on the edge of Q3 and 5th to 8th in the first races. I think the now circulating predictions of scrapping around with the Force Indias are a gross exaggeration.

Thats my guess. Use it as you see fit...

If 2007 - 2009 was run inefficently It's almost scary to think how good McLaren could be if their CFD & Wind Tunnel Dept were efficent then!

That's a good point they kept up with and occasionally out developed Ferrari when inefficient. A bit of a shake up and they could be very dangerous again... and a bad 2009 might well cause a shake up....

I think if we go into Melbourne expecting elimination on Q1 we will be pleasantly surprised. On the other hand, if we spend the season waiting for the "big step" I think we are going to be very frustrated. The speed of development from the likes of Ferrari BMW and Toyota is potentially at least on a par with Mclaren from what I can see. Last year, if you look at where Kova started and finished, the Mclaren was a leading car that faded over the course of the season. I see no evidence to suggest the team are going to claw back the current deficit to the top teams this season. Having said that, it's encouraging that teams like Renault have been able to make apparently large steps forward. Early in the new regulations, the steps are likely to be quite large. So the possibilty remains - but I'm not going to rest my hopes on it.

Let's wait for the first race to see how bad is the situation. If we get beat by FI or RossoTorros then it's time to kick someone in the nuts.

I'm thinking there are two design teams at McLaren, it's a bit early to be working on the 2010 car while the diffuser regs are unclear and so on, so probably one team is fixing up the current car as far as possible, while the other is working on a B spec car. They knew in January that the A spec had gone wrong so the B spec could be ready for June perhaps?

That would give us a season of two halves - hang on for the first half, grab a few points here and there, then try to catch up with some wins later on. Hoping that in the meantime the top points have been spread around.

This is the year that could see the team's capabilities in developing the car over the season; as to how great their CFD and Simulator tools are when compared to others. Also this could give us an insight into the strength of the team's aero & design departments. The last few years have seen them make evolution of the previous year's model and now they have been posed a tough question. Will be nice to see how they respond and deliver on track. More importantly how quickly they can bring in this developments will be another barometer. And in the hot seat is Martin Whitmarsh. Somehow, he doesn't inspire confidence in me. I always associate him with PR drivel and it is difficult for me to visualize him as anything else but a highly paid PR guru.

just another look at this link

http://www.mclaren.com/in-depth/bluffers-guide.php

on the face of it, it seems like nothing,

but why would they use the word 'bluffers' though , its a bit of a random choice of word

hardcore merc fans, is this normal ronspeak?
or is it their corporate sense of humor and they are trying an early april fools joke on us?


dont get me wrong, they most likely had problems b4 but is it possible theyve fixed it enough to feel they are competitive but then decide to just downplay expectations



it may all be nothing, but the choice of word there just struck me as odd...especially for a team that is known to be quite meticulous with their PR.

anyways all will be revealed in a few days....thier 'problems' add to the intrigue of the new season

We'll be stepping into fantasy land if we assume that everything is hunky-dory with the car. A healthy dose of reality is always good for the mind and the soul and the reality is that the car is not in a position to be on podium let alone win a race any time soon.

Hamilton also makes no mention of their problems in this video posted on the site yesterday

http://www.mclaren.com/interactive/video/movie.php?show=41


even talks about going there to win like last year


I guess im not alone in fantasyland


once it is confirmed the car is a dud in Melbourne, we wont be able to fantasize again

so lets cherish the few days left to fantasize

Yep vsubravet. That's my reading of things too. At least the majority of McLaren fans are under no illusion. The first few races look like they may be tough. All we can do is hope good progress is made as we get through this (long) season. The pain will be shared on this thread no doubt.

O.K let us step into fantasy land for the next few days. I'm all for it.

I think this is just another practical joke. I can't find the link now but do you remember the video that showed McLaren strapping on Headlamps on the 23 for the night race. Seems they do like to have a laugh. Is it an attempt to lift the stigma of being a clinical team with no heart?

Could somebody please clarify for me.....

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...324132309.shtml

I read this article and it says that the an Abudhabi royal family paid 9billion euros for about 9% of is it Mclaren or mercedes? That would put the value of the company at nearly 100 billion euros....surely it must be mercedes?????

They bought 9% of Daimler. It`s all explained in the article.


Did you really read the article?

and they paid 2 billion instead of 9, which decreases the total value by about a fifth ;)

You should realise that when English is not someones first language, they may have legitimate questions about an article in English.

No need to be condescending towards them.

I apologize ...

Bluffers guide is just a general turn of phrase. It doesn't mean "we, the bluffers, shall guide you", it means "heres a guide so you can bluff your way into sounding like you know what you're on about."

No hidden meaning there. Car is definitely sub par currently.

As to development - that's something I'd be positive about. These regs are still in their infancy and a lot of laptime is still available. All teams can benefit from that, yes, but the point being that a big gap in position can turn into a very small one overnight with a new idea, so the teams position now isn't without hope. I really don't think a B-spec will be necessary, because I don't think this car is flawed, just underdeveloped (from my understanding of the article AFCA posted, at least). We've already seen the amount of updates the team has bolted on, clawing back laptime piece by piece, and that was just one test session a week ago. No doubt more will turn up in Australia, and possibly the other three flyaways. Hopefully the damage won't be too bad from those four races, and the european season allows more comprehensive upgrades. Other teams don't stand still, I get that, but you can still catch up by just running faster.

just checkin thorugh the photos from australia - is this a new nose? i dont recall seeing those particular endplates before?

http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/200.../1237971092.jpg

I don't trust McLaren so much that I think there is a chance they have just been playing mind games all this time.
I have to see it for half atleast the first three races to believe it.

True. Also the fact that the articles starts with "McLaren has added..." and then goes to "a Bahraini company bought a 30 per cent stake in the Woking-based outfit two years ago" could make it confusing

ayt then, looked into it a bit more...its just pr/ronspeak


Lewis is most likely in fantasyland talking about race win in Melbourne

I remember Ron Dennis saying something along the lines like "They will have to wait another 21 years for the next one" when Ferrari got their first WDC with MS in 2000. The 21 years being the time Ferrari had to wait for a WDC since Scheckter in 1979.

"I can see troub-le a-head" - as the song goes.

The "Bluffer's Guides" are a fairly well-known series of books, giving a concise guide to the essentials of a subject (so that the reader might bluff his way through without a complete knowledge).
They are published by Oval Books
http://www.ovalbooks.com/bluff/index.html
who are constantly engaged in actively protecting their trademark rights to the phrase.

yea i decided to google the term 'bluffers guide' n figured it out

Not the newest nose?

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8136/p3250121.jpg

Jerez test 18.03.2009

http://www.motorsport-total.com/f1/bilder/...=1237393805&d=3

Theres certainly some big differences with those two wings tho

Looks worryingly similar to the one on the launch car...

http://www.autosport.com/gallery/photo.php/id/121624

- the vertical flow splitters on the endplates are gone
- the slits on the outer side of the lower planes are gone
- the inner sides of the second plane doesn't go as far "downward" anymore

- more??

looks like a lot of things disappeared

I dare to say it's indeed the same wing

...so if they've scored no points in the first two races, you'll still be thinking that they're just sandbagging and lulling the competition into a false sense of security, and are just waiting for the right moment to whip out the demon aero package to blow everyone away in europe ?

nope i exspect pos 12-16 in qual depending on the wheather, hope we get a crazy race with lots of rain

stop stop stop, it is the old wing parked in front, but thats normal, seen it last year also. They are gonna use the new one FOR SURE, dont worry.

Those rascally rabbits!

McLaren have been a complete mystery this winter. Slow, many updates, 08 rear wings, etc. Now they are back to using the launch version of their front wing when they have what appears to be a much more advanced version available.

That's there only for marketing reason, to show the sponsors to the media.

There is a reason why there is a black barrier behind what they have out in front for the public to see

with how teams esp. Mclaren are so secretive about car parts

u must know they wont put their true Wings of Destiny out there just like that

You guys dont even know how those "amazing" wings performed. They were probably pony.

Stop posting

Why?? His opinions are just as valid as yours.

The middle section of the lowest wing looks interesting.

No they're as valid as yours

There are two different methods of attaching the wing to the nose on display there.

"All opinions are not equal. Some are a very great deal more robust, sophisticated and well supported in logic and argument than others."
— Douglas Adams

well the cover is ready to come off this diff for sure
http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/d09aus189.jpg

and 4 piece frontwing just like i said, forget the one lying in front of their pit
http://www.sutton-images.com/previews/d09aus183.jpg

and the new exhausts outlets also, not shure were the hot air outlets are though

Oh - oh now that mclaren has a trick diffuser the FIA will ban them instantly

Also the end plates for the rear wing are different -
[img]http://www.sutton-images.com/preview.asp?filename=d09aus168.jpg[/img]