Full Version: MP4-24
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It still has remnants of flowvis over it!
Originally posted by Victor_RO
Funnily enough, the last time a World Champion team took such a nosedive in the next year, that team was Ferrari.
Or williams right? 97' - 98'
Funnily enough, the last time a World Champion team took such a nosedive in the next year, that team was Ferrari.
Originally posted by Victor_RO
Funnily enough, the last time a World Champion team took such a nosedive in the next year, that team was Ferrari.
Funnily enough, the last time a World Champion team took such a nosedive in the next year, that team was Ferrari.
Surely it was Renault.
'97-'98 for Williams wasn't such a nose dive as 1979-1980 was for Ferrari. The Scuderia went from Constructors' Champions one year to 10th in the Championship the next.
Originally posted by Clatter
Surely it was Renault.
Surely it was Renault.
Aye.
Originally posted by Clatter
Surely it was Renault.
AHHHH of course... THE LAST year. Surely it was Renault.
Originally posted by Victor_RO
'97-'98 for Williams wasn't such a nose dive as 1979-1980 was for Ferrari. The Scuderia went from Constructors' Champions one year to 10th in the Championship the next.
Before my time heheh
'97-'98 for Williams wasn't such a nose dive as 1979-1980 was for Ferrari. The Scuderia went from Constructors' Champions one year to 10th in the Championship the next.
Originally posted by F.M.
Looks more like last minute manufacturing due to which it just doesn't fit that well
Looks more like last minute manufacturing due to which it just doesn't fit that well
to me, the up close shot of the diffuser is not comforting at all.
they went to scrutineering with the diffuser like that, there's no way they plan to change the design afterwards. imagine how hard the fia would come down on them...
the sight of duct tape holding panels together... on a mclaren?
Originally posted by john_smith
to me, the up close shot of the diffuser is not comforting at all.
they went to scrutineering with the diffuser like that, there's no way they plan to change the design afterwards. imagine how hard the fia would come down on them...
the sight of duct tape holding panels together... on a mclaren?
to me, the up close shot of the diffuser is not comforting at all.
they went to scrutineering with the diffuser like that, there's no way they plan to change the design afterwards. imagine how hard the fia would come down on them...
the sight of duct tape holding panels together... on a mclaren?
Well who's to say they didn't take that pannal off for the FIA tests???
It's just a very poor fit overall. I'm sure that Mclaren can produce better parts if they wanted to. Apparently they don't want to. Also the holes in the vertical vanes look suspicious to me. are they there to make a toyotastyle vane?
Originally posted by Clatter
Surely it was Renault.
Surely it was Renault.
yes, but Renault lost a WDC and Michelin tyres. Mclaren are no different from last year, they have the same personnel, but somehow managed to do a pigs ear of a job interpreting design rules. It beggars belief.
Originally posted by Ruud de la Rosa
It's just a very poor fit overall. I'm sure that Mclaren can produce better parts if they wanted to. Apparently they don't want to. Also the holes in the vertical vanes look suspicious to me. are they there to make a toyotastyle vane?
It's just a very poor fit overall. I'm sure that Mclaren can produce better parts if they wanted to. Apparently they don't want to. Also the holes in the vertical vanes look suspicious to me. are they there to make a toyotastyle vane?
to me, that looks like the holes where they fitted the previous incarnation of diffuser, the rectangular one that looked like it had a blocking plate.
Originally posted by Ruud de la Rosa
It's just a very poor fit overall. I'm sure that Mclaren can produce better parts if they wanted to. Apparently they don't want to. Also the holes in the vertical vanes look suspicious to me. are they there to make a toyotastyle vane?
It's just a very poor fit overall. I'm sure that Mclaren can produce better parts if they wanted to. Apparently they don't want to. Also the holes in the vertical vanes look suspicious to me. are they there to make a toyotastyle vane?
exactly, how long have people been following F1, everything is measured in ,000 and then you think this is poor manufactoring
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Originally posted by bonjon1979
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Hehe, we shall see then !!
Originally posted by bonjon1979
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Jesus this is all getting to much for the old ticker lol
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Originally posted by Zingfharn
Jesus this is all getting to much for the old ticker lol
Jesus this is all getting to much for the old ticker lol
couldn't agree more
I can't see how scarbs got all that from the two photo's I've seen. i'm guessing he must be there and seen it for himself. According to his twitter James Allen was waiting in the press office for the stewards final ruling but had to go and meet Brundle for dinner so sacked it off. That's real commitment to the cause, isn't it!!!
Actually, looking at the large photo again, there does appear to be a gap under the crash structure, it's just really out of focus so difficult to make out...
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
Originally posted by ZooL
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
That's like saying there is no particular problem aside from the engine, which tends to explode.
Originally posted by bonjon1979
I can't see how scarbs got all that from the two photo's I've seen. i'm guessing he must be there and seen it for himself.
I can't see how scarbs got all that from the two photo's I've seen. i'm guessing he must be there and seen it for himself.
You know, he might have seen more pictures and be more technically savy than you. Most likely both.
Originally posted by peroa
Aerodynamic pressure quantity regulating aparatus.
Aerodynamic pressure quantity regulating aparatus.
I actually think it is a mid visible light spectrum super enhanced damping integrator
Originally posted by bonjon1979
Actually, looking at the large photo again, there does appear to be a gap under the crash structure, it's just really out of focus so difficult to make out...
Right so for a technical spoon like me which part is the crash structure please?
Actually, looking at the large photo again, there does appear to be a gap under the crash structure, it's just really out of focus so difficult to make out...
Originally posted by SchumiBoy
Larger image
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires.../diapoa_004.jpg
Larger image
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires.../diapoa_004.jpg
Since there is such an emphasis upon dimensions and in particular height, I think McLaren are in effect submitting just the 'silhouette' of the diffuser to scrutineering. Testing the water as it were. The design seems to hint at an intermediate solution. Perhaps not quite as extreme as the wonderful Brawn example, but a step into that territory nontheless.
Originally posted by Zingfharn
Right so for a technical spoon like me which part is the crash structure please?
Right so for a technical spoon like me which part is the crash structure please?
Tail light structure.
Originally posted by bogi
Tail light structure.
Got it cheers Bogi Tail light structure.
its different from engine blowing up....its more like competitors have out downforced mclaren
and they didnt expect that
and they didnt expect that
Originally posted by wingwalker
That's like saying there is no particular problem aside from the engine, which tends to explode.
You know, he might have seen more pictures and be more technically savy than you. Most likely both.
That's like saying there is no particular problem aside from the engine, which tends to explode.
You know, he might have seen more pictures and be more technically savy than you. Most likely both.
No, wingwalker, he is DEFINITELY more technically savy than me!!!! I was just making the point that I couldn't see what he saw, but that's probably because I'm a bit 'special' when it comes to the whole technical side of things. Picking up lots of info on these forums though, which is great, always live and love to learn!
Originally posted by bonjon1979
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
I very much doubt that. I don't think the teams can alter their cars post scrutiny.
I am just wondering if that's what Mclaren wants to achieve, why don't just perforate the device until it looks like a sieve?
Originally posted by bonjon1979
No, wingwalker, he is DEFINITELY more technically savy than me!!!! I was just making the point that I couldn't see what he saw, but that's probably because I'm a bit 'special' when it comes to the whole technical side of things. Picking up lots of info on these forums though, which is great, always live and love to learn!
No, wingwalker, he is DEFINITELY more technically savy than me!!!! I was just making the point that I couldn't see what he saw, but that's probably because I'm a bit 'special' when it comes to the whole technical side of things. Picking up lots of info on these forums though, which is great, always live and love to learn!
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
Originally posted by bonjon1979
No, wingwalker, he is DEFINITELY more technically savy than me!!!! I was just making the point that I couldn't see what he saw, but that's probably because I'm a bit 'special' when it comes to the whole technical side of things. Picking up lots of info on these forums though, which is great, always live and love to learn!
No, wingwalker, he is DEFINITELY more technically savy than me!!!! I was just making the point that I couldn't see what he saw, but that's probably because I'm a bit 'special' when it comes to the whole technical side of things. Picking up lots of info on these forums though, which is great, always live and love to learn!
Sorry! I got the impression like you suggest what scrabs says makes no sense cause you don't see it, which was false (my impression).
Originally posted by rage
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
x3
Originally posted by rage
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
x4, though im still relatively clueless when it comes to absolute f1 tech. details...u definitely wont see me in the diffusor row thread trying to argue specifications
Originally posted by ZooL
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
yes you are totally right, the teams actually prefer if there is some specific part, or area off the car. Because then its easier to change and adress the problem. I cant remember were ive read it, but many teams in the past has said this. Its a lot harder to make a resonable car without any specific problems, fast.
Originally posted by ZooL
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
Lewis has confirmed theres no particular problem with the car other than being too slow compared to the competitors via lacking downforce.
Isn't this a car concept problem? The car must be fundamentally flawed because you cannot just gain 20% downforce if you feel thats whats missing...without a change in the whole tub shape of the car.
It just needs the Diffuser Of Justice II ™ DD Edition, and it'll be fine.
Originally posted by bonjon1979
I can't see how that could possibly come off. Either it's flexible or it's there to stay.
I can't see how that could possibly come off. Either it's flexible or it's there to stay.
It's not like they will remove it during pit stops. It just seems to leave space fror a double decker. The bulge is hollow.
Originally posted by werks prototype
Since there is such an emphasis upon dimensions and in particular height, I think McLaren are in effect submitting just the 'silhouette' of the diffuser to scrutineering. Testing the water as it were. The design seems to hint at an intermediate solution. Perhaps not quite as extreme as the wonderful Brawn example, but a step into that territory nontheless.
Since there is such an emphasis upon dimensions and in particular height, I think McLaren are in effect submitting just the 'silhouette' of the diffuser to scrutineering. Testing the water as it were. The design seems to hint at an intermediate solution. Perhaps not quite as extreme as the wonderful Brawn example, but a step into that territory nontheless.
agreed
looks like an intermed solution. Also in some of the pictures you can see the void at the back of the gearbox
Originally posted by rage
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
same here, been an f1 fan for years, but since joining these forums i am gaining an appreciation for the technical aspects. it is fascinating, some really in depth posts here from those in the know. thanks, and keep it up
My impression is that they can and will. A lot will change on how these cars look until saturday.
Originally posted by bonjon1979
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Scarbs just posted this on another forum:
I agree with the consensus that the Mac diffuser is an interim\disguised double decker design.
If you look with the contrast altered, you can see:
• The way the temporary infill panel in the middle, doesn’t reach the rear axle line, but is cut to avoid the two short fences.
• There are small vertical fences on top of the diffuser capped at 175mm, these would meet up with the exit of the upper deck
• The usual fairing under the gearbox is removed, theres a big void behind the gearbox\under the crash structure for the upper deck.
If the scrutineers pass the designs today, I suspect that Mac will add the upper deck, cut away that split vertical panel and run it on Friday....
Oh yes - changing the midtones you can quite clearly see the void....
?
Originally posted by Mika Mika
Oh yes - changing the midtones you can quite clearly see the void....
Can somebody post a pic of this ?
Oh yes - changing the midtones you can quite clearly see the void....
Originally posted by wingwalker
Sorry! I got the impression like you suggest what scrabs says makes no sense cause you don't see it, which was false (my impression).
Sorry! I got the impression like you suggest what scrabs says makes no sense cause you don't see it, which was false (my impression).
No worries bud, I can see how you might've thought that.
Is anyone staying up to watch the practice? Apparently you can do it online but I'm not sure how or where?
New very simple barge boards. And smaller air inlets.
Originally posted by bonjon1979
No worries bud, I can see how you might've thought that.
Is anyone staying up to watch the practice? Apparently you can do it online but I'm not sure how or where?
No worries bud, I can see how you might've thought that.
Is anyone staying up to watch the practice? Apparently you can do it online but I'm not sure how or where?
A whole bunch of us, I can assure you
Click on the 'live' link at the top of the stage, all the links usually pop out in the chat box when time arises. Unless you're in Uk, then simply go to BBC page and register or do whatever it requires to do.
Originally posted by bogi
New very simple barge boards. And smaller air inlets.
you mean you can actually see barge boards??? New very simple barge boards. And smaller air inlets.
about the bargeboards, i think its mclarens way to go about the rules, big bargeboards isnt allowed any more, so they make two small ones and combine them, look at pics from the last day at the jerez test
Originally posted by Zingfharn
?Can somebody post a pic of this ?
?Can somebody post a pic of this ?
if you look at this picture you can see the ground and reflected light coming from the split, you coulndt see light there before,
http://premium.f1-live.com/f1/photos-hires.../diapoa_004.jpg
That "plough" type splitter. Isn't it like the one on BGP? And air inlets also 
it actually looks like they have cleared the whole area in front of the "upper deck" or in front of the diff,
Just to burst the bubble folks... they've had that diffuser on the test car:
This is from the tests 2 weeks ago.
Compared with nows:
Now, do you actually think they are gonna just cut that part off, and then re-do their whole aero-map in a few hours? Get real folks.
It is what it is, and they will not race a substantially modified version of that this weekend.
(Admittedly, they may use a modified version on Friday for testing to get an aeromap done for a few races down the road.)
This is from the tests 2 weeks ago.
Compared with nows:
Now, do you actually think they are gonna just cut that part off, and then re-do their whole aero-map in a few hours? Get real folks.
It is what it is, and they will not race a substantially modified version of that this weekend.
(Admittedly, they may use a modified version on Friday for testing to get an aeromap done for a few races down the road.)
Originally posted by bogi
New very simple barge boards. And smaller air inlets.
New very simple barge boards. And smaller air inlets.
here
http://www.motorsport-total.com/bilder/200...z1237369862.jpg
No bubbles burst here, if you look back a few pages you can see the test diffuser being discussed heavily. True, it isn't assured at all that the plate will be removed, and it sounds like theres a lot of other things to be done to the car to make the diffuser into a double decker, but at the moment it looks like a design thats losing a lot of downforce because its got a whopping great piece of carbon fibre blocking airflow.
I'm not that technically inclined, but I can't imagine that it would be terribly beneficial to race like that?
I'm not that technically inclined, but I can't imagine that it would be terribly beneficial to race like that?
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