Brand damage - how did you get BMW into the story?

BMW have been steadily improving, finished 2nd on Sunday, Merc on the other hand through their association with McLaren been associated with cheating and lying for the second time now.

In all honesty if any manufacturer leaves, no matter what reason they give, the fact of the matter is they couldn't justify the expense any longer.

Well I would say that they were running at the forefront every year you mentioned other than 2006 which was an intended development year. But its alot lot lot more than results its how the press reflect you. And at the moment they are being reflected as dishonest and non-successful (even though they have invisibly won every race this season and the top 3 positions in round 1). Those things are very damaging.

BMW are very black and white. They were going to remain in F1 this season if they were the leading team or level with a leading team. Presently they are miles away. They have also invested a lot of money in both CFD and KERS both of which are being made obsolete by the FIA with the restrictions in CFD processing power and introduction of standard KERS (Something BMW marketing are very against).

- 2000: Ok, they fought at the very top. And the WDC and the WCC were lost due to Mercedes engine faliures.
- 2001: 4 wins, awfull Mercedes engine (after the beryllium-gate) significantly compromises the campaign.
- 2002: Again a horrible Mercedes engine and a too light on the tyres chassis makes it impossible to fight in qual with the Williams, and impossible to fight in the races with the Ferraris.
- 2003: Engines are better in performance, even with an year-old car they fight till the very last. And then it's all lost due to a Mercedes engine failure at the Nurburgring.
- 2004: Horrible Mclaren project. Still bounces back at the end of the season, but still finishes 5th on the WDC. Why didn't they think about leaving then?
- 2005: How many McMerc engine failures did we have?
- 2006: Horrible V8 to start with, AGAIN.
- 2007: Things start to get better from the engine side once they get people from Cosworth.

Well, after a brainstorming moment, it might actually be quite good if those people levae Formula 1.

im always amazed how ppl can seperate the engine-performance from the package-performance ...

The general public dont see these details. All they see is a big shiny Merc logo at the front of the grid or passing the flag. They dont notice if one failure was responsible for the championship being lost. Infact the failure probably got Mercedes mentioned more on TV for a few minutes and would actually be viewed as a positive.

New diffuser for Mclaren to next GP, China

new one ok, but DD?

Source?

surely yes

Maybe McLaren are claiming that they are ready with a new DDD so that the FIA bans them because they don't want McLaren to have it. Cunning...

Hahaha, nice ;)

McLaren summoned by FIA's WMSC
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/74346

What a waste of time and resources...

Ouch.

Here we go again.

A nice all expenses journey to Paris for the members of the WMSC cronies, hand picked for their role via nepotism, to eat and dine and come to the forgone conclusion sex-pervert Max Moseley has already decided. Bringing the sport into disrepute, dispite Max Moseley's S & M antics being a private matter? This is proof positive the administration side of FIA/F1, is Max's fiefdom. This is bringing mclaren to its knees.

I bet that next day after McLaren use this diffusor, it will be banned and will became illegal.

again the sword of Damocles over McLaren .... its Groundhog day again? ...

big f**kin deal - they cant prove that McLaren planned or are responsible for one members decision. Remember McLaren were not initally held responsible for spygate.

How do you know?

You think The Times has evidence implicating others from McLaren and the FIA doesn't ?

"McLaren being caught lying through the actions of Ryan and Hamilton is one thing; if it turns out that they have properly scapegoated Ryan and lied again about who knew about what was going on, I would fear for the consequences on their behalf. The FIA is not going to like that at all. The Times does in fact have an admission of sorts on this issue but it would be improper to report it here at this stage ."
http://timesonline.typepad.com/formula_one...-whitmarsh.html

Big deal, I suspect exclusion for 2 races and a couple of millions euro fine, 1 was Melbourne, 2. would be Barcelona. I'd be upset if Lewis should miss out Monaco.

I hope Bernie would be upset too.

Guys, I'm sure many of you want to tear Vodafone McLaren Mercedes limb form limb, however please leave this thread for discussion about the car & its technical aspects, and not the team.

I suspect we are about to witness the following;-

100million dollar fine (a lot more than before because of the conversion rates at present)
No points in the constructors championship this season to be awarded to McLaren.
Suspension from the Monaco Grand Prix in May.

Now i dont know the whole ins and outs of Mclarens financial situation but i would be amazed if any organisation in the present climate could survive that... let alone again!

Nice one EvilPhil you obviously read the last post.

Wish my team had a topic like this. It's a shambles over at RBR, talking about diffusers in the Webber vs Vettel topic. Aussie chat club talking about anything from Webber and his luck, to other random topics all the time in the team topic. And I'm all alone in the car/technical stuff topic. Meanwhile, this one has 137 pages.

any other mclaren fan got a sick feeling???

Yep. I just know something unfair (again) will be handed out.

I'm to hear this.

Keke Rosberg were intervied in MTV3 and his comments were: "is FIA after an other 100 mil $ and it is starting to look like McLaren witch hunt".

They got their penalty and that should be enough. Bring on China...

Thank God for Keke. Why is the general press so sympathetic to the FIA in all this?

yup... what's the point of discussing the car when it really doesn't even matter?

I got a sick feeling because when McLaren did not fight, they are screwed, if they fight, they will be screwed even more. Since they will be screwed anyway, I think that they should have fight.

yep u just know it...

Much as I think Keke is the man... The last thing McMerc need is a bunch of crusty ex F1 drivers standing up for them (it'll just make things worse)...

Whos next to pipe up, Stewart, Hill, Brundel????

I have to disagree with you Mika, I think that the old fart like Keke still have some credibility in the sport. He is following things very closely and from inside because of Nico, so he has some clue what is going on...

And as you said he is the man

20 ways F1™ is changing our world

'Monocoque' wheelchair
Ovei
Hinode satellite
Factor 001 bike
Baby Pod II

"How does Formula 1™ relate to your own daily life?"
By those videos? bugger all, perhaps those McLaren employee's involved should have kept the focus on the cars.

mclaren not waiting for barcelona for updates

hopefully the DD is worth more then half a second otherwise it still wont be enough to challenge brawn

Because anyone printing the counter argument will ahve their press-pass taken off them - bingo, out of a job.

I don't think so...the team screwed up, all for a scrumy one point!
I don't believe that MW was part of any conspiracy, I just think that he was weak and some old boys like Ryan didn't respect him very much and just took decisions on their own.

This was not the team lying and I think FIA will see that. Having said that, FIA will want to know the answers why Mclaren did not correct themselves having been given the chance twice.

I still think they will get nothing more than a slap on the wrist though.

I will not be too unhappy if Mclaren were to be given one race ban. They would spend the time developing their car. Ferrari sucks for the moment anyway.

I don't think we will be talking much about Brawns in another couple of months though. It will still be between Mclaren and Ferrari. They are the crowd pullers in F1. Who cares about Bari and JB?

That "half second" figure is politics and hyperbole. A couple of tenths is much more realistic.

Seriously? I think the Brawn drivers are breath of fresh air and the Brawn zero to hero story is a great one. The Ferrari drivers aren't exactly the most charismatic figures (mumbles and whine), and Hamilton needs some time out of the news (for his own sake).

As quickly as the big two can develop, I think the best case scenario for them is to equal the speed of the Brawn, which should improve as well, by the end of the season. Catching up in points is not likely unless Brawn has some serious reliability problems.

I think you might be a little wrong in that no one will be talking about the Brawns. Peoples perception of them is that they are a small underfunded (now that Honda have pulled out) team. This is not so, and while yes, they do need to get some sterling sponsors for the moment (two years) they are fine. They have all the top resources that were bought with massive Honda funding and they are not going to stand still while others are developing their cars.
Granted, that in the past two years, the Honda car has been a real dog and the Honda engine whilst solid, was in a word, rubbish.
I believe that there is much more to come from the BGP001 and it and the team will be talked about for quite some time to come.

Who cares about Bari and JB?
Might I offer that their fans care about them.

No offense, but that`s not really a sporty attitude, more on Flav`s level ...
:\

And the prize goes to.... MIKA!!! It was Stewart.

http://www.theherald.co.uk/sport/headlines..._procedures.php

I got the feeling Max would like that, he can screw McLaren even more, and he can get more headlines. No, McLaren should just shut up. If it's another huge fine, tell Bernie they're ready to quit.

I do! You obviously don't realise, but there is a section of F1 fans who don't support McLaren or Ferrari! Like peroa says, that's a pretty crappy attitude to the sport. :\

Depends who you ask. Some in the pitlane have guessed at a few tenths, whereas Flav's estimate seems to go up on a daily basis (think it's about a second at the moment).