Norby is still talking 2 months

But as far as as we know ATM next year's cars will probably be the same spec won't they, so have to get it right anyway.

It's difficult to explain, but here's my attempt.

If you're going in a straight line, you're travelling in a circle with an infinite radius. If you turn the steering wheel, you turn the car into a position so that it travels along a radius of finite distance - e.g. 30m.

Now you don't instantly turn the steering wheel to give you that radius, 1 because it's impossible, and 2, the jerk you'd feel would be insane. oh and 3, the tyres would just give up You gradually turn to that given angle.

you initially turn the steering wheel a really small angle, and the wheels turn, the car doesn't however, because there is a lag between what the wheels are doing and what is happening between the road, cos the tyres are flexible annoying little shits.

So you have a slight difference between the direction the wheel is, and the direction the car is travelling - this is slip. This generates a force which turns the car via a torque. Now as time goes on, your steering wheel angle gets bigger, and then wheels turn, and the road is always slightly behind. and generates a force which turns the car so the cornering radius changes. Until you reach a constant steering wheel angle and the tyres catch up then you're into steady state cornering, with a lateral acceleration and a velocity.

Now this torque that turns the car, this is equal to the Interia * the angular acceleration (it's the rotational form of Newton's 2nd law)

As for where the centre of this rotation is, it's difficult to say, because you get slip at the rear as well, so the centre of rotation sort of moves, but generally, it's close to the centre iirc.

any clarification on any of this would be welcome.

Nope, I think you've pretty much nailed it. Carry on, my good sir. I quite enjoyed that.

interestingly, lewis and i think heikki both opted not to use the rear wheels rims in qualifying.

To help warm the tyres quickly?

I dont think so, but even if that was the case, id say it'd be better to have them on to heat anything up rather than have them off. Who knows, now that ive checked, it looks like only lewis didnt have them on.

Click on it!

That wing is beatiful Hoping you guys have a great race today

I think he means that the whole car should behave as an extention of the wheels so that where the wheels turns the car follows with minimal resistance.
Of course this is easier said than done but the car that is able to do this best is the best car on the grid assuming that the engine packs sufficient grunt coupled with highly effecient power delivery.

For hi-res click on it!

thanks for the good pictures, this is getting annoying, im a member on that site, only because off the pics. I think its great they are shared no problem. No what the problems is, the pic you send a link to, they have it in their directory, but its not published on their site under monaco qual. What the f... Its pictures like thoose im hoping for and then they dont show it, despite they have it

Well hopefully well have a good race, some rain but be nice but. Hopefully hamilton can overtake some. He said the harbour chicane is the best possibility, or breaking towards it. Lets just hope he doesnt do a Ralf Schumacher out of the tunnel :-)

OH yes thanks for the interesting talk about torque and Interia

Use this gallery!
http://f1-live.freeblog.hu/

If you see the links to those pics, it appears the word "premium". Those pics are for those who are suscribed to their site, and they are unprotected. You should be grateful, not complaining!

what dont you understand, IM A MEMBER, i pay, but the pic that were linked to is in their directory but its not shown on their site. Where is the logic in that. And please read before you attack. You want my membership number

If you consider my post an attack...

Then the dumb thing to do is pay for that site.

i know thats why im quitting my membership asap :-)
All im asking, read before you write

The worst strategy by McLaren ever.

They couldn't do half the race on supersofts, so 2-stop was the only option. Then with overtaking almost impossible, turn the engine right down and save it for the future - no other choice unfortunately.

What a dog of a car.
Hamilton was as stupid as it gets.

Not as stupid as Vettel

Whereas Ferrari are visibly improving, McLaren have not yet found the leak.
This year is a write-off and the car is a lemon... or a melon would be more appropriate.

Theres nothing else to do except improve the car, next year will be under the same regulations (if they are even going to be on the grid)

at least you can take in that you once again were fast as always here compared to other places.

Can´t they replace Kova, damn...
The pace was okay today, although I expected a bit more. It seems the tyres were fading more in comparison to other teams

This beats Barcelona as the lowest point of the season, considering what Thursday promised.

I could not believe the stupidity of McLaren - utter fools! What kind of dumb strategy was that!! Just When I think they had turned a corner they go and have a pathetic stratgegy like this. Makes zero sense.

This pic sums up nicely our weekend.


I won't mope about it, new races, new chances. Instanbul Park, here we go!

All we need is for the fuel tank to be opened and a someone light a match - I dont even excpet any updates. Scrap the season and start working on 2010

Really Kova should be replaced. In the most races Hamilton brings the resolds and when Hamilton screw ups and Kova is in a better position you expect that he will at least deliver something to compensate for the damage but in the end he always manages to screw up even worse. He is completely unreliable.

Basically the weekend was over after Hamilton lost it in qualifying. That was really sad because he would have at least split the Ferrari's if that didn't happen. Who knows he might have even been in the podium. Really when you have a bad car that goes well in tracks like this you should make use of the chance. Unfortunately that did not happen.

Really hard to take anything from the weekend.

Cars were fast, Lewis throws it off the road during q1, both drivers have absolutely crap races, wasting what chances we had of a decent result for once.

Oh well, on to Turkey.

I doubt in Turkey we will even have a chance to score points.

It's so unfair how the undeserving ferrari drivers already got a good car while Hamilton's car looks like its getting worse and worse

Im pro McLaren and Lewis, but to say the Ferrari guys dont deserve it is a bit unfair.

Its up to our boys to work harder and smarter, and by guys I dont mean the drivers, since they dont design the cars.

mostly i say it because everyone is saying how it was time for Mclaren to have a down year while Ferrari have had a faster car in 06, 07, 08 and now 09.

?????

Norbert Haug said another two months needed to get competitive.

Surely that means a B-spec car or at least an almost-B-spec car?

I don't see how continuous minor revisions to this car are ever going to get it where it needs to be.

I haven't seen other teams' diffuser solutions but that "plank" channel under the McLaren car looks like a horrible kludge, and it's no wonder it doesn't give the performance of the other DD teams.

Thats Haug or you, 'Mr 2 monthsb time' A colleuge of mine at work who knows someone high up (she wont say) tells me the mp4 -25 is already being worked on and would be very different from the 24. I dont know what to believe anymore except that McLaren wont be ready anytime soon.

Whoever said Lewis will manage to finish ahead of Kova, despite qualifying was spot on .

Kova is just a waste of space....honestly. People talk of him being given poor strategies, well i think he had the crash strategy today. Day to forget over-all.

McLaren could do a lot worse than maybe giving Buemi, despite his boneheaded move today, a shot.

Bring back De la Rosa then

Paul di Resta

they now changed everything posible, (short term) on the car and that has brought us some gains, but nothing near what we need. It obvious we need a new car. They changed wings, floor, diffuser. We need a b-version, no doubt. And we need to get rid of kovalinen, he brings nothing. As someone mentioned. Why not try buemi for next year, he seems genuinely fast.

EDIT

Or de la rosa, hopefully he could help develop, and it would be a nice thank you gesture.

A dreadful performance from both of the drivers and the tactics weren't perhaps the cleverest I've seen. Hamilton, at least to my mind, is second to none in terms of natural ability but he has to learn to control his enthusiasm as it works against him too often. Kovalainen poses no threat to Hamilton, as has become clear to probably everyone by now, and that could even be one of the factors that works against Lewis weirdly enough. Being the clear number one like he is at McLaren may have lead to him losing focus, so I feel a bit more challenging team mate and thus added competitive pressure from within the team wouldn't be a bad thing. But all that is just speculation.

As for positives to take from this weekend? I'd say the team morale must have taken a nice boost now that the aero guys aren't the only ones to have put in some lousy performances this year.

That's a bit harsh. Senna,Schumacher,Mansell, Lauda, Ascari have all ended up in the barriers(or sea in Ascari's case) at Monaco. It happens but i can't help but feel we have lost a potential podium. I think we'll have a good race at Hungary and when we come back after the summer break we may have sorted the car out and be challenging for points and podiums regularly. I can't see much progress before the break, only in China did the upgrades seem to have a quantifiable effect. Since then we don't seem to have made any significant progress.

Equal cars in 07 and 08,but for now you are slower and i expect your team to do better.Dump Kova and replace him with Di Resta or Senna.

If it wasn't for the testing restrictions, that would be a good idea.

What a disappointing weekend.

Hamilton destroyed his weekend with the mistake in Q1. No way back at this of all places. Kovalainen sadly failed again - whenever he is promoted to the effective No.1 he seems incapable of seizing the moment. A shame but that wreck could be costly. The team lost their best chance of a reasonable weekend - although Hamilton's race pace was still some way from the top four so I think some were expecting too much anyway. We are a third of the way into the season and Norbert said Mclaren should have caught up by then. If only life were that simple.

the teams always say that they start working on next years car as early as march of the year before

That we need a B-version has been obvious since march, at the latest. Hopefully they have been working on it for months, already.

If the rumours are true and Alonso goes to Ferrari, maybe Raikkonen would want to come back. Probably the safest bet for McLaren, if so, as I think Raikkonen would not get embroiled in an off-track war with Hamilton and he would likely be fast on the track.

McLaren would never take Kimi back after he betrayed them.