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argiriano
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 11 2009, 20:59) *
Quantum leap? cat.gif

I still hardly believe it, they've done such a big step. Considering Heikki's result, even the new front wing alone is worth tenths, and the whole package is a really big improvement.

I think the track just suits our car more than previous two, and that compromise MP4-24 real performance. It`s a big step forward, but still there is more to work on. I hope this performance make McLaren to not switch on 2010 car entirely.

With this upgrade, and fastest last sector from Lewis i think Hungarian GP will be even more good for the team! smile.gif
Keith68
The technology aspects of the package alone may well not produce the whole 7/10ths, but the difference in the driver suddenly being confident in the way the car behaves and able to push that bit harder certainly will.
Anomnader
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 12 2009, 06:18) *
They 'switched on the downforce' finally, and the tyres started to work, it's a domino effect. 7 tenths seems possible, when the new parts fix a big problem and unlock the potential.


Yep, I totally agree, its sarcasm against someone who said it was not possible.

This package seems to have unleashed the potential, seems to anyway, lets just hope its not track specific
argiriano
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jul 12 2009, 12:53) *
This package seems to have unleashed the potential, seems to anyway, lets just hope its not track specific

it is for some way because of a benefits of KERS, but there is clearly an improvement in the behavior in medium to fast corners. TV cameras shows on board footages of Kovy and Lewis in the fast chicane of the middle sector where Lewis can go on full throttle, and Kova didn`t - he lift the throttle for a while. The biggest differnece between two drivers was in the second sector, where all the corners are medium to fast, and the lack of grip is more obvious. Ham tops the speed trap at the start-finish line, with 5 km/h ahead of Kova, witch means he can keep more speed at the last corner too, I suppose.

Well done McLaren! up.gif Keep it up! smoking.gif
Anomnader
A lot of the new speed could also be down to new found confidence in the car, Lewis now feels its not going to breakaway and so is feeling able to push a lot more in his old style.

Just a shame these upgrades never came 3 or 4 races ago.

Maybe 1 of the red bulls is out of touch, but I seriously think Vettel and Brawns are in touching distance today, a lot will be dependant on weather. The Reb Bull is stil the best wet weather car out there, I have no idea how much these upgades have altered the mclarens performance in the wet. In China, the lack of downforce made it one of the worst in the wet.
hunnylander
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jul 12 2009, 12:35) *
A lot of the new speed could also be down to new found confidence in the car, Lewis now feels its not going to breakaway and so is feeling able to push a lot more in his old style.

Just a shame these upgrades never came 3 or 4 races ago.

Maybe 1 of the red bulls is out of touch, but I seriously think Vettel and Brawns are in touching distance today, a lot will be dependant on weather. The Reb Bull is stil the best wet weather car out there, I have no idea how much these upgades have altered the mclarens performance in the wet. In China, the lack of downforce made it one of the worst in the wet.


It seems very ambitious, but I think the 2nd place is doable on merit in a constant weather.
Clatter
QUOTE (Anomnader @ Jul 11 2009, 23:56) *
I don't think its possible to gain almost a second a lap with upgrade parts during a season wink.gif


It is if your starting point is as bad as Macs has been.
trenchcoat
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 12 2009, 11:44) *
It seems very ambitious, but I think the 2nd place is doable on merit in a constant weather.



Are you seriously telling me McLaren can beat one of the Red Bulls and both Brawns without interchangeable weather? The Red Bulls are well over half a second a lap faster. I'm ever the optimist but the only way we beat RBR is through luck. We pit at the right time and they don’t, or they crash out. It does not matter if LH gets a better start than Vettel they have 4 laps longer. All Vettel has to do is tuck up behind Lewis and overtake him at the pit stops. Luck is the only way possible for a second place.
Raziel
QUOTE (trenchcoat @ Jul 12 2009, 13:08) *
Are you seriously telling me McLaren can beat one of the Red Bulls and both Brawns without interchangeable weather? The Red Bulls are well over half a second a lap faster. I'm ever the optimist but the only way we beat RBR is through luck. We pit at the right time and they don’t, or they crash out. It does not matter if LH gets a better start than Vettel they have 4 laps longer. All Vettel has to do is tuck up behind Lewis and overtake him at the pit stops. Luck is the only way possible for a second place.


We don´t know that, because we have no idea about McLarens race pace! Let´s wait and see...
salamin
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 12 2009, 11:44) *
It seems very ambitious, but I think the 2nd place is doable on merit in a constant weather.


the long stint times from friday (10-13 laps) were not as good as the shorts, but the biggest factor now is the weather. i think there is a rain possibility of 60% for the race
hunnylander
QUOTE (trenchcoat @ Jul 12 2009, 13:08) *
Are you seriously telling me McLaren can beat one of the Red Bulls and both Brawns without interchangeable weather? The Red Bulls are well over half a second a lap faster. I'm ever the optimist but the only way we beat RBR is through luck. We pit at the right time and they don’t, or they crash out. It does not matter if LH gets a better start than Vettel they have 4 laps longer. All Vettel has to do is tuck up behind Lewis and overtake him at the pit stops. Luck is the only way possible for a second place.


Vettel seems to be erratic this weekend. Heikki also has a good chance to overtake him at the beginning.

Lewis didn't really show the true pace of the new 24. He earned the 5th place with his first flying lap (aborting the second), Webber did it in his second.

Lewis's racepace is always better compared to the field, than his qualifying pace. For me only Webbo seems unbeatable.
Henrytheeigth
Yea the updated MP4-24 looks good huh. Now Ferrari have to improve more as well. smile.gif

Ah I am sure you all know I meant looks good in performance right? lol
Anomnader
Same here, Kers alied to a good car should be an awesome advantage, the only worry is avoiding a tangle at the start, I'm sure vettel might try for a blocking move, but if he blocks lewis, then heikki will have him.
trenchcoat
QUOTE (Raziel @ Jul 12 2009, 12:15) *
We don´t know that, because we have no idea about McLarens race pace! Let´s wait and see...



We dont know that Red Bull are over half a second a lap faster? Go an look at the FP times. And look at the Quali adjusted times. There is absolute no way McLaren is on par with Red Bull- come on lets get real here. Luck and Luck alone is what is needed. Performance wise, I liken the McLaren to what BMW was at last years GP and the RB to what McLaren was. You would see just how good RB are when the race starts.
Enkei
Well, that was that ambivalent.gif
f1rules
QUOTE (hunnylander @ Jul 12 2009, 06:18) *
They 'switched on the downforce' finally, and the tyres started to work, it's a domino effect. 7 tenths seems possible, when the new parts fix a big problem and unlock the potential.


exactly i agree

QUOTE (Enkei @ Jul 12 2009, 13:05) *
Well, that was that ambivalent.gif


well, it was good while it lasted lol, it was ok he took the risk, but would have been a good race from him for sure
trenchcoat
QUOTE (f1rules @ Jul 12 2009, 14:10) *
exactly i agree



well, it was good while it lasted lol, it was ok he took the risk, but would have been a good race from him for sure



Wow! That was a hard race to swallow i'd be lying if i said I was not mad!! mad.gif Atleast we got a point from Kovi. I dont know where Lewis would have finished but a podium looked very likely looking at the way the race turned out. I am suprised Kovi came in so early? Is that Macca so fuel thristy?

Wouter
QUOTE (trenchcoat @ Jul 12 2009, 15:47) *
Wow! That was a hard race to swallow i'd be lying if i said I was not mad!! mad.gif Atleast we got a point from Kovi. I dont know where Lewis would have finished but a podium looked very likely looking at the way the race turned out. I am suprised Kovi came in so early? Is that Macca so fuel thristy?

Both Kovalainen and Hamilton had little fuel in Q3 - though the Brawns had even less. Kova came in on schedule.

The race showed again how bad the old car is, Kovalainen couldn't do anything and wouldn't have scored if not for Raikkonen and Sutil encountering problems. Good of him to still score a point.

Lewis was very unlucky, in the new car. He could have gotten involved in the Barrichello/Webber fight at the beginning, if only Webber hadn't clipped his rear right. Race over at that point. Still, there seems to be potential in the new car and even if downforce is still lacking somewhat, next race Hamilton should really go for it. McLaren might do really well at Hungary, with a little luck. Both drivers with all the upgrades, slow track, high temperatures, and I guess KERS would be useful down the straight somewhat. The most important thing is that the car is improving now.
Insane111
QUOTE (Wouter @ Jul 12 2009, 15:02) *
Both Kovalainen and Hamilton had little fuel in Q3 - though the Brawns had even less. Kova came in on schedule.


Kova's post quali weight was 664kg, 20kg heavier than the Brawns and heavier than Webber. If I remember correctly he came in only two laps after one of the Brawns, and way before Webber. Might have just been tyre related.

Good point for Kovalainen, horrible race for Hamilton. To Hungary!
dabrasco
while im thoroughly disappointed, cant blame Lewis..he had the KERS and he made very good use of it...maybe even too good use of it and didnt really do anything silly....its just unfortunate, without the puncture, he might have been first coming out the first corner which would have been incredible.

what happened is a shame... lets see how next races go though
mkay
Kova was just atrocious though; he finished 30+ seconds behind ALONSO, for God's Sake.

Guizotia
QUOTE (dabrasco @ Jul 12 2009, 15:16) *
while im thoroughly disappointed, cant blame Lewis..he had the KERS and he made very good use of it...maybe even too good use of it....without the puncture, he might have been first coming out the first corner which would have been incredible.

what happened is a shame... lets see how next races go though


C'mon - at least we have seen the new package and we know it's an improvement - TO THE FUTURE!
dabrasco
QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 12 2009, 14:18) *
Kova was just atrocious though; he finished 30+ seconds behind ALONSO, for God's Sake.


Alonso set the fastest lap if I read correct.... the Renault is another car that worked really well.

Lets not forget Kovy doesnt have the full Hamilton updates either... I think he actually had a fine weekend considering the circumstances

Urawa
I found it a bit funny when HAM said that he wants to give up the race to save the gearbox/engine.
With no testing this year one must do as much laps as you can get in race...
Monad
QUOTE (Urawa @ Jul 12 2009, 14:27) *
I found it a bit funny when HAM said that he wants to give up the race to save the gearbox/engine.
With no testing this year one must do as much laps as you can get in race...



Nothing funny with it. Because he wasn't just running one lap behind but he would have to slow all the time so he can let the others go by. So basically he couldn't even run. Is an absolute torture for the driver.
Wouter
QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 12 2009, 16:18) *
Kova was just atrocious though; he finished 30+ seconds behind ALONSO, for God's Sake.

The car was atrocious - very slippery, like usual. Kovalainen had a great race to take a point.

Hamilton's car was probably much better, with it being practically a whole new car, but sadly the touch by Webber (questionable driving at the start, rightly sanctioned IMO) ended his race and that was that.

Both drivers should be able to do something at Hungary though, the track where Kova won 2008 and Hamilton in 2007, with both in a now improved car on a track that should suit the car (even the old one, to a lesser degree).
H0R
So what. Kovy 8th without the full Monty and the Hamster outside the points. There were years I would have cared, but this year I am perfectly fine with the result, as an improvement of the car was clearly visible. Looking forward to Hungary!
undersquare
I was struck how Steve Hallam put Lewis down over the 'save the engine and gearbox' suggestion' on the radio - "just drive the car we'll look after the strategy". Everyone disappointed I suppose.

Lewis was right, anyway, his floor was damaged. Just mentioned it in his interview too...
Wouter
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 12 2009, 16:35) *
I was struck how Steve Hallam put Lewis down over the 'save the engine and gearbox' suggestion' on the radio - "just drive the car we'll look after the strategy". Everyone disappointed I suppose.

Lewis was right, anyway, his floor was damaged. Just mentioned it in his interview too...

Saving the engine was the right thing to do. Looking at Hamilton's times, he probably drove with few revs anyway.
trenchcoat
QUOTE (Wouter @ Jul 12 2009, 15:02) *
Both Kovalainen and Hamilton had little fuel in Q3 - though the Brawns had even less. Kova came in on schedule.

The race showed again how bad the old car is, Kovalainen couldn't do anything and wouldn't have scored if not for Raikkonen and Sutil encountering problems. Good of him to still score a point.

Lewis was very unlucky, in the new car. He could have gotten involved in the Barrichello/Webber fight at the beginning, if only Webber hadn't clipped his rear right. Race over at that point. Still, there seems to be potential in the new car and even if downforce is still lacking somewhat, next race Hamilton should really go for it. McLaren might do really well at Hungary, with a little luck. Both drivers with all the upgrades, slow track, high temperatures, and I guess KERS would be useful down the straight somewhat. The most important thing is that the car is improving now.



Look at the race fule loads you would see Kovi had an extra 8 laps more fuel than Brawn but came in a lap after the Brawns confused.gif As for Lewis, I guess this track has it in for him. 2007 he raced all the way from 12th to 4th and got his tyre busted in the same place same lap ambivalent.gif Its hard to really say how much the car has improved because we never saw its true pace. But thats all in the past now, time to look forward. Bring on Hungary and 2 good McLaren cars. A fight for 3rd place WCC this can be done. Ferrari are the team to beat for 3rd place so the rest of the season should be fun.
nudger1964
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 12 2009, 15:35) *
I was struck how Steve Hallam put Lewis down over the 'save the engine and gearbox' suggestion' on the radio - "just drive the car we'll look after the strategy". Everyone disappointed I suppose.

Lewis was right, anyway, his floor was damaged. Just mentioned it in his interview too...



steve hallam dosnt work for mclaren anymore,
but yeah, it struck me as a bit of a patronising tone. of course, i dont think lewis meant he wanted to retire...i think there are rules about retiring an otherwise healthy car are there not
Henrytheeigth
It's an advantage being A Ferrari and a Macca fan, for when one shines, and the other doesn't, I am still happy. smile.gif
teejay
QUOTE (H0R @ Jul 12 2009, 22:35) *
So what. Kovy 8th without the full Monty and the Hamster outside the points. There were years I would have cared, but this year I am perfectly fine with the result, as an improvement of the car was clearly visible. Looking forward to Hungary!


Ditto.

Lewis was oh so close to leading a lap on merit! just a few cm, and he coulda got out of turn 1 in 1st.. biggrin.gif
undersquare
QUOTE (nudger1964 @ Jul 12 2009, 16:00) *
steve hallam dosnt work for mclaren anymore,
but yeah, it struck me as a bit of a patronising tone. of course, i dont think lewis meant he wanted to retire...i think there are rules about retiring an otherwise healthy car are there not


You're right, it wasn't Phil Prew though was it, who was it? Someone not on Lewis' Christmas card list lol.gif
inca_roads
Gutting. First time Lewis gets a sniff of a good result in 2 months, and it's over in a few seconds due to no fault of his own. Fantastic start; he would have had the lead if not for the puncture.
Monad
QUOTE (Henrytheeigth @ Jul 12 2009, 15:00) *
It's an advantage being A Ferrari and a Macca fan, for when one shines, and the other doesn't, I am still happy. smile.gif


That's a big contradiction there. confused.gif
mp4-a
QUOTE (Monad @ Jul 12 2009, 15:33) *
Nothing funny with it. Because he wasn't just running one lap behind but he would have to slow all the time so he can let the others go by. So basically he couldn't even run. Is an absolute torture for the driver.

oh cmon..... i think its very sad that lewis even thought of parking the car and "saving the gearbox". i mean look at what the team has gone through in the last 8 weeks and pipo working their pants off in woking just to make parts ready for one car at their home gp (mercedes home gp). lewis wouldnt even have thought of parking up at the british gp and i dont think it was fair for him to suggest that.

i know it sounded like the team just brushed his suggestions aside but im sure that was not the first or last time they talked about it during the race (remember we only get 1 or 2 radio transmitions).

make no mistake, it was not his fault that he had a puncture (mark hit him from the back), but with no in-season testing (with or without broken floor), every little piece of data you can get is diamond! The car was running new parts that the team need to understand!

today was very frustrating to watch but atleast now we are sure we have overcome our problems and with the new upgrades for budapest, it all looks goooood! smile.gif
mursuka80
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 12 2009, 18:14) *
You're right, it wasn't Phil Prew though was it, who was it? Someone not on Lewis' Christmas card list lol.gif


Team decides,driver listens.Even Lewis.
Henrytheeigth
QUOTE (Monad @ Jul 13 2009, 01:25) *
That's a big contradiction there. confused.gif



lol only to the die hard dedicated Ferrari and only to the die hard dedicated Macca fans! Remember I got the F2008 and the Mp4-23 Models behind me! biggrin.gif
nudger1964
QUOTE (undersquare @ Jul 12 2009, 16:14) *
You're right, it wasn't Phil Prew though was it, who was it? Someone not on Lewis' Christmas card list lol.gif


i think its Richard Hopkirk .. same guy as "the incident" that shalt not be mentioned
f1rules
QUOTE (mursuka80 @ Jul 12 2009, 15:28) *
Team decides,driver listens.Even Lewis.


exactly up.gif lewis has no saying in this
Monad
QUOTE (Henrytheeigth @ Jul 12 2009, 15:29) *
lol only to the die hard dedicated Ferrari and only to the die hard dedicated Macca fans! Remember I got the F2008 and the Mp4-23 Models behind me! biggrin.gif


Yeah well i have models of both also but you can't be a supporter of both in the races. Maybe you are just a general F1 fan in the end. Because who would you support when most of the times they race each other. The whole reason someone chooses a team to support and not be a simple observer while watching is because that way the races have more flavor since you can cheer for them while there running and feel the joy and sadness when things go good or bad. By being with both of those teams kind of kills the whole purpose.
hunnylander
QUOTE (mursuka80 @ Jul 12 2009, 17:28) *
Team decides,driver listens.Even Lewis.


He listened. But team should listen too; floor damaged, 1 lap down and blue flags and blue flags. Lewis was right.
mkay
Kovalainen still needs to be shown the door at the end of the season, though. Horrible performance.

Just the ghost thing they shown yesterday with Lewis being faster than him by 2 car lengths at the chicane. His driving style does not match the car's strengths... at all.
Henrytheeigth
QUOTE (Monad @ Jul 13 2009, 01:39) *
Yeah well i have models of both also but you can't be a supporter of both in the races. Maybe you are just a general F1 fan in the end. Because who would you support when most of the times they race each other. The whole reason someone chooses a team to support and not be a simple observer while watching is because that way the races have more flavor since you can cheer for them while there running and feel the joy and sadness when things go good or bad. By being with both of those teams kind of kills the whole purpose.


Yea I guess I am a general race fan, coz I also got Alonso's Renault model! lol I guess I am trully a fan of exciting races in the end and really that's all I want! lol I even added redbull-Webber as a team I am now a fan of in my profile! Should of been there from the get go I know....smile.gif

Ah that's the R26 btw
mursuka80
QUOTE (mkay @ Jul 12 2009, 18:49) *
Kovalainen still needs to be shown the door at the end of the season, though. Horrible performance.

Just the ghost thing they shown yesterday with Lewis being faster than him by 2 car lengths at the chicane. His driving style does not match the car's strengths... at all.


With old parts and your cars recent form you should be glad about a point.If in Hungary,when they both get the new parts and Lewis trashes him,then i would say game over for Heikki.
glorius&victorius
I want Sutil at Mclaren
TheArmchairCritic
What a start from Lewis, i think he was an innocent victim of Webber&Barrichello's start line dust up. I think Webber was concentrating on Barrichello in his mirrors that he didn't really notice Lewis. All it needed was one tiny little correction and Lewis would have led the first stint and with Heikki and Massa holding Vettel and Barrichello up 3rd would have been ours easily, who knows perhaps even 2nd. But that's racing as Lewis said. Solid point from Heikki. At least we have something to look forward to in 2 weeks, which is a huge contrast to the last few races. An inch cost us 6(maybe 8) points
TheArmchairCritic
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Jul 12 2009, 17:11) *
I want Sutil at Mclaren

I want Rubens so Lewis doesn't have to bother setting-up his car... tongue.gif
Monad
QUOTE (glorius&victorius @ Jul 12 2009, 16:11) *
I want Sutil at Mclaren


Why? The German is usually head to head with Fisi and we all remember how Alonso completely crashed his ass. Even Heikki kicked his ass in the second part of his first season.
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