Thy wont even make Q2

Webslows best lap was only good enough to neat AlGUERSUARU and BADOER. hahaha 2 seconds of the pace

Troll-a-rama

Wat i said was complete FACT. How is this trolling

Its like me saying that lewis hamilton is going bald, Then get acused of trolling

You're basing your opinion on what happened in a largely inconclusive, disrupted, practice session, which normally you would need to take with a pinch of salt anyway.

Relax dude, Im just being an ass. Im a big fan of yours. Keep up the good work.

RB to race with KERS @ SPA?

Is that really a good idea? Did they even test 1km with KERS on board?

doesn't sound like a good idea to me...

I really do think that would be a risky decision - too risky IMHO...

IIRC he's popped 3 engines. There was one at Monaco that went boom, and possibly one in China.

As for KERS, its risky business, but it sounds like the risky sort of thing RBR have talked about before they'd do if they thought it would get them an edge over Brawn in the championship. With the wheels moved back, its less of an issue than at the start of the year. They might be moving them back another step with the big step at Singapore. I think its obviously going to favour Vettel more than Webber however, unless they've got more resources lightening the chassis.

It takes the big risks to bring big rewards. The RB KERS system is essentially the same as that raced by Renault and Ferrari this year (made by Marelli) so apart from installation issues it's a reliable system. The question is how it would affect the overall car performance? It wouldn't hurt to run one car with it on Friday at Spa to see........

In a way seems like a desperate decision.

You can only assume they will recieve the Renault KERS.

Renault designed and built their car around KERS and yet do not currently use it. I struggle to see how RedBull will be able to fit it into their car without substantionally losing performance in other areas. It is very risky with no testing, and if done then it could have the opposite effect of what they want. Rather than aid the championship fight it could well cost them it!

IMO stick to what they've got. If Renault, BMW, and even sometimes Ferrari struggle to use it with the testing and gained experience they have then I dont see any change of RedBull using it successfully.

The RB5 was designed for KERS with the batteries under the fuel tank i believe........

Waaay too risky. I cant believe they'd even think about it at this point.

They could wreck their whole championship bid just like that. And they probably would. There's no way in hell they're just gonna just bolt it on and be as quick as they were before.

Right now, Red Bull are going to have to rely on bad luck for Button, and weather conditions that'll suit them. Many people were quite naive to assume that Red Bull's pace the last few races was due solely to a new-found advantage over BrawnGP. If it wasn't for Mclaren's resurgence, it would be almost a given that BrawnGP were going to win more races once they got back to hotter weather.

So damage limitation this weekend and then hope for the nastiest conditions they can get at Spa.

Really? Makes their car even more impressive then imo! By far the tightest/smallest packaged car!

as suggested, 1 car running it on Friday would be a good idea but do they have the 20odd Kg to spare without taking away too much ballast?

Yea, but how long ago was that? A year?

They've since been developing the car without having KERS in mind at all.

Reliable it may be but it ain't no Mclaren KERS system...

How can you be so sure?

Oh I'm sure it ain't no Mclaren KERS system - its a Ferrari/Renault/Magnetti Marelli system...

But seriously, don't you think the Mclaren system seems to be the better of the KERS units?

Source?

I don't get the hype around the McLaren system, considering only two teams are really running it I suppose they have a 50% chance of having the "best" system, but what does the best even mean? They're power limited so what else is there? Other than reliability, without some direct comparison of multiple systems in the same car and specs on weight and size being released (lol?) it seems difficult to say whats better, despite what Martin Brundle says.

Hm, I think Jenson and Kimi will both jump Seb at the start. Then his fuel load will ruin his race probably.

Mark will maybe get past Alonso because of the clean side. But starting from p9 on a street circuit is really meh. Hopefully his fuel load will net him a few positions.

Weird how slow the RB5 is in Valencia compared to other tracks. But otoh Valencia was bad last year too.

Webber's fuelled similarly to both Alonso and Rosberg in front of him, so will be interesting to see if he goes for a long middle stint and tries to leapfrog either/both in the process if things don't go according to plan from the off.

Vettel has a mountain to climb if you ask me. Overtaking isn't his strong point and any opportunities are almost non-existent in Valencia anyway, plus he starts from the dirty side of the grid doesn't he?

If he manages to get on to the podium it'll be a cracking effort.

Honestly I dont think MW has the pace to do anything in the race but hope to hold position and maybe benefit from a retirement or two.
This is the first time we have seen him consistently way off SVs pace.

Fuel adjusted the difference is less than 0.040 seconds between them. That's not "way off pace" imho. More like impressive how they are that very close on times every freaking time again. Almost like robots.

Think he meant Mark's looked way off the pace the whole weekend, which is true.

Both RB5s look in trouble but Mark simply looks in a worse state of the two. He is really struggling here.

Mark's admitted he doesn't like the circuit (who does?) and maybe that's having an impact on his mental attitude?

The BBC commentary team also mentioned Mark's demeanor has been slightly "off" this weekend.

Perhaps something happened during the summer break? Maybe he's not happy about the potential KERS adoption?

Both Horner and Newey have said they won't run two cars of different configurations on the same weekend.

Even with the change in chassis weight distribution, KERS may still (relatively) disadvantage Mark.

Anyway, I agree with Jez that Mark has looked off the pace a little this weekend, but weight-corrected, Mark and Seb were still very close in Q3.

I don't have any logical reason for this assessment, but I also have a "feeling" the track will come to the Bulls during the race. If they can get a good start and keep their noses clean during the first stint, they may be in a position to leap-frog their way to a good points haul during the second part of the race.

Hope so...

Perhaps he's been watching the Ashes - I know I haven't been a bundle of joy either...

The hype is mainly around the systems weight. Mercedes are claiming their system is about 25kg all up, whilst the Magnetti Marelli systems are possibly still around 35kg. Sheer performance, they've always been level because of how low the outputs allowed have been and surely Ferrari and Renault have solved their early season reliability issues.

Just position reversal with Brawn really, its been like this all year, so many factors the teams don't fully understand yet with these cars, although Mark mentioned something about down force levels, other teams able to run less wing or something like that....

I am tipping the next race will look completely different again....

This is the worst track possible for RB compared to Brawn. Stop and go nature of the circuit without fast turns, very engine demanding (mercedes is ultimate engine this year), high temperatures. What more can Brawns ask?
Its damage limitation, Red Bull may be helped a lot by Mclaren which could deny first two places for Brawn on its track while Red Bull on its track will be dominant, Im certain about that.
BTW I think Mark is better positioned for this race than Vettel. I can see Vettel drop to 6th, 7th place at the start and Mark keep his place, which could lead to better finish for Mark.

Does Vettel have a new helmet?

Seems to be a couple of shades of grey with the yellow or Red Bull in shiny gold.

Has some kind of pattern on top too.

Why do Vettel's engines keep detonating and not Webber's?

Seems strange.

Why didn't RBR pit Webber for his last stint a lap or 2 early?

His pace was poor on those tyres and he had traffic in front of him - when Button was going to stop he was bound to jump Mark...

Right

Horner just said on the Forum definitely no KERS on the RBR

He did say that, but he was quite cagey about the subject.......

Packaging may make the RB5 marginal with cooling the engine, today's heat and combination of lack of air by nature of the track could have contributed to the engine failure. Redbull have had some heat issues in previous races telling Vettel to get off the gearbox of another car etc. Just another factor..

I actually think the abolishment of the enforced compound tyre gaps has hurt RBR.

RB5 worked the prime tyre extremely well, and with performance being a relative measure that which no longer hurts their competitors naturally disadvantages the team.

I think even on warmer tracks like Valencia had the prime been the medium compound rather the soft Red Bull would have been in much better shape.
The WDC is still mathematically albeit remotely possible, but the WCC which carries with it financial implications is slipping away with Brawn doing big damage last weekend.

Spa is no certainty, and so the team need to expedite their Singapore upgrade and do this soon.

Bingo. It has hurt us enormously, very observant, i was just thinkign the same thing.

One wonders how come BS were allowed to change the FIA policy, which was announced last year by the FIA and would be applied for the season 2009? Its been a clear change of the rules, placed mid season.

Concerning Seb's engine failures - there have been several. I recall once with Sato, he was blowing up engines while Button wasn't. It turned out that he was blipping the throttle between gear changes. There was a slight feathering of the engine load, and it caused the engine to fail. With today's gearboxes and software profiling, something like that seems a bit unlikely. I'd bet engine revs and cooling. There is likely a driver technique issue - which one should not blaim Seb for. Renault need to find out what he's doing differently to MW. If its feathering throttle issues, it might be difficult to fix.

Concerning RBR's speed, I also suspect their brakes, which have had issues before. Did anyone see the brake dust? I did not see much of the race ... but I reckon Newey tends to opt for the minimum of brake cooling, and such an issue would be highlighted at Valencia. Overall, we need to recall that RBR are still some way from a big upgrade ... while Button gained, he did not gain much. Really RBR were lucky with Valencia, as if Button had won, the situation would be far worse.<br /><br />I am not getting my pitstop numbers anymore, but I thought the fuel hosel has also slow on MW's car when Button got by him ... those refueling rigs which are supplied by a company appointed by the FIA, seem to play up with different teams regularly ... recall Ferrari at I think Singapore last year, the fuel rig cost Massa the championship. Perhaps it was merely RBR's turn.<br /><br />Those MB powerplants seem fairly special though - as does their KERS system. But the McLaren itself isn't so quick it seems ... Spa will be very important for RBR, hopefully their not yet upgraded car will show its stuff, I suspect they might not like hot weather ...

Vettel is screwed ...
http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/formel-...ge-1387186.html

Money or wins?

Weird headline, I'd have thought Red Bull would be in a good position to deliver wins.

AMS is implicating there, that the current Renault engines not only are for free, but that Red Bull Racing also receives money from Renault and Total. I find that extremely unlikely tbqh. The deal was made in 2005 or 2006 and there was no way Renault could expect RBR to be WCC contender now. So why would they pay RBR to use their engines?

Seems like AMS is trying to push the public opinion towards Mercedes engines for Red Bull Racing.

why not use Ferrari? they have all the data from TorroRosso i cannot believe the Renault is better then the ferrari. Ferrari have not suddenly forgot how to make a championship engine and they have a HUGE engine r&d, that could be a grest engine -but they will have to pay

There's an engine development freeze. For now, Ferrari and others are stuck with whatever they have.

Why is it Renault's concern?
All Renault should do is make sure their engines are the same quality with the same safety in reducing imperfections and contamination and then advising on the requirements their auxilry systems need to meet so the engine operates correctly and safely.

Assuming their contract does not allow RBR to dictate how Renault spends their R&D budget.

Daniel Ricciardo is likely to test for Red Bull at the end of the year: details.

Its been said, that Honda, Toyota and Renault were most upset that Ferrari and McLaren improved their engine performance by claiming reliability changes. Its been said that Honda's quitting was related to the behavior of those two teams stepping around the homologation.

Toyota did nothing too - their engine revs out, and the improvements by McLaren and Ferrari hurt Toyota, who've suffered even more with the loss of engine revs (their engine being best at the revs now gone).

But its also been said, that the Renault is the most powerful now. Because Renault provided their horsepower and torque figures for their proposed upgrade, which was accepted, and they improved the engine for this season. But the rumors (or one of them) is that they understated the improvement in performance, hence its the best engine.

But perhaps its not after all!!!

How can you judge the merits of the 2 systems? So much is dependent on how good the car itself is.

I think with Renault starting to look at KERS again for Monza, RBR doing the same has got to be given some more consideration. They should at the very least arrive at Monza with KERS in the trucks, and maybe run a car with each specification for one of Friday's practise sessions.