I sense major disaster

Codemasters will be like Enron of game companies with major failure!

I have played few of their racing games before and have to say they haven't brought anything good after Colin McRae Rally 1 and 2. Their Race Driver Grid is half eyecandy, but realistic like Blue Sprint of C64. Even handling was better in Blue Sprint.

Sorry guys, but you better stick with F1 CE, Grand Prix 3 and 4.

I myself can't wait, its been a long time since the release of another F1 game since Championship Edition, and that does get quite boring. I like to be able to play with new updates of cars and drivers.

You can using the excellent mods by the sim communities of the best games (PC anyway)

preview:

I reckon this games sales and overall enjoyment will suffer because of the upside down grid in 2009. Poeple will want to jump into the game and start winning races in a McLaren or Ferrari, being Lewis or Kimi etc. They do not want to be an a Brawn or Red Bull.

If the game doesn't allow at least equal performance (if codemasters makes the mistake of coding accurate relative performances) the sales will suffer.

All IMHO, of course.

Sound quite nice. Now what engine would that be..


My bet is a Ferrari/Toyota.

They should have run a competiton to guess the circuit it's from, assuming it's running a real circuit simulation.

looks like they recorded it in a garage [see pic]

That will not be an issue. You can win championships in the worst car in any F1 game and it will only be slightly more difficult.

Screenshots of the game look very bad.

Sadly, the PS3 has been dropped by most developers for racing games. The entire industry moved away from simulations years ago on the console, as the games are too hard and sales suffered.

GT5 calls itself a "simulation", but it's just an arcade game, with very bad AI. Simple AI test: stop on a straight. In GT5, all 15 cars will ram you in the butt. Even the new GT5, the jewel of Sony, has been canceled, despite a planned release in 2007, then 2008, then 2009, now, never.

GRID is fun, but an arcade game. You can assume that F12010 will run on the GRID graphics engine, as many Codemasters games do now. So the graphics will be ok.

But for the future: crashes will be limited to little/no damage in F1 games -this is a hard rule from F1.

F1 games will suck in the future -this is because Bernie will only grant one exclusive license, and this is so he can guarantee sales and charge more $.

The best F1 game is still Grand Prix legends, or F199 on the PS1. Now each are over a decade old.

For he best latest driving sim games -see the open source communities in PC gaming.

yeah it's too bad the guys who did GT Legends & GTR2 didn't get a chance at F1, it would have been great ( Simbin? Blimey? 10tacle? I get them mixed up lol )



for an awesome '60's sports car sim, check out GT Legends & the "power & glory" mod for GTR2, which imports the GTL cars with much more detail & different physics:

http://www.gtlw.co.uk/

this is a good site:

http://www.nogripracing.com/

What? Which racing games has been dropped for the platform and are now only coming to the XBox?
When was GT5 canceled?

/Viktor

AI is always the thing that disappoints me in racing games.

What? Umm what hole did you decide to talk out of there?

GT5 cancelled? Nope. The PS3 has been dropped by developers for racing games? Which ones? If anything its increased by one as Bizarre Creations are now making multi format games.

GT5 relelase date will likely be announced next Tuesday.

In the next monthe or two two sim based racing games will be released for the PS3. Supercar Challenge by System 3/ Eutechnyx and Superstars V8 from Milestone. Add in SHIFT the new need for speed game and there are plenty just this year.

By the way Shift is being developed by Blimey games the developer of GTR and GTR2 and GTR Evolution. the engine being used is an advanced version of those games.

So yeah, what were you saying?

F1 97 was the best imo.

LOL. Sony has been saying this for THREE YEARS. According to the Japanese sites, GT5 will be renamed to another title, it MAY appear in 2010.
Keep in mind Sony has announced firm release dates for GT5 since 2007. So, excuse me if I'm skeptical. If they do release this game, they have a long way to go before it is anything more than a modeling game with nice graphics. There are 10 year old games with much better physics and AI, real tracks, and challenging racing.

Don't be surprised if they sell another $40 demo. Sony learned from GT5 Prologue that GT customers are not the brightest, nor the most demanding of customers.



None of those games are driving simulations, regardless of what they call them.

System 3 is the publisher of Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli, which is the biggest POS on the PS3, and is nothing but the old Sega game ported to the PS3.

Superstars V8 is Aus only.



Simbin has been talking about a console based sim racer since the original Xbox. I hope they do it one day, but announcing a game and actually producing the disks are two very different things in this industry. 4 years and counting for GTR to be on a console, and for the PC, the graphics engine is almost a decade old.



Don't believe what you read in gaming forums or on gaming sites.

Sim racers are very difficult to master, and would not sell well at all to the typical 14-18 target demographic of the console user. Even Grand Prix Legends had poor sales, despite the tremendous loyal following.

F1 97 had an excellent gaming engine for AI and race events, plus brilliant presentation. That was in the developer days where the game mattered, and graphics were secondary.

Its only major weakness was saving lap records etc, we ended up with a chart on the wall when I was a student, to record all our times at different circuits.

Again I have to call into question what you know.

Simbin made Race Pro for the Xbox released earlier this year. Blimey games the developers behind Simbin are working on Shift after leaving behind their Ferrari project.

Superstars V8 is not an Aus only game. I assume you guessed it was based on the V8 supercar series, its not. Its actually based on a predominantly Italian championship.

The Ferrari Challenge game is not a port of the Dreamcast game nor is it a sequel of the Sega Arcade. The clue is the fact its not made by sega.

So far you have been entirely worng. Lets move unto Gran Turismo then.

This game will be out in Japan this year. This coming Tuesday the E3 conference will take place, look for confirmation their. Contrary to popular opinion a release date has never been set.

Also the chances of them renaming the Gran Turismo series, a series which is Sonys highest selling are nil.

Out of your points the only one I would accept is that the AI is poor, Gran Turismo has never been noted for it but then again most play raacing games online so the challenge comes from beating other players. As regards the tracks just wait for the track roster to be complete. There will be plenty of real tracks as well as the fictional tracks which are fantastic in Gran Turismo.

As regards the Physics in Gran Turismo 5, well obviously as it is we can only go on Gran Turismo 5 Prologue, but it is evident that the Physics have been moved up a notch especially when using a wheel and using the stock tyre settings as provided in the in game manual. It is generally becoming accepted amongst the more hardcore of the sim racing fans to be, certainly on consoles, a great simulation of a driving experience, certainly up there with LFS.

LOL and indeed

Villes Gilleneuve, what are you on bud? I've been following Gran Turismo 5 since it's inception and you're just stating false propaganda about the game. Do you have any credible sources for your information besides unnamed Japanese sites?

The game is not canned, never was. They're still hard at work on it and at E3 this year, many details are likely to emerge INCLUDING a release date. It was indicated in October '08 that a release for GT5 is "sooner than we think" which certainly does not sound like a cancelation to me.

Wow, thanks a lot, looks like I'm gonna wipe the dust off my GTL and GTR2 discs.

Again, Sony has had official press releases stating firm release dates of GT5 for over two years now.
According to any website caches, release of this game was to be:
Spring 2007
Fall 2007
April 15, 2008
December 15, 2008
March 15, 2009....

Sony is undergoing a restructuring due to massive sales losses.

If any release date is announced (it wasn't yesterday!), they are not credible.

Regardless, as far as racing games go, it's not even good.

I still don't understand why this game is even for sale in demo form, it's nothing but advertisements for auto manufacturers.

The best hope for something decent is still Simbin -which is very iffy, or Codemasters F1 in 2010.

I have not seen a single firm release date for GT5, ever. Please point to a official press release with a release date from Sony. Not speculated release dates from shops or sites.

/Viktor

There has been no official date, trust me on this.

Codemasters F1 game will be based on the Ego engine wghich powered both DiRT and GRiD, this doesn't bode well but hopefully they will have done a good job, I really wish them the best though I do not hold much hope.

As I said blimey games developers behing the Simbin games GTR and its sequels are now working on NFS Shift.

Fanboy websites talk about many things in preparation-few come to light. Search, "Racing Legends". This game was hyped for 5 years, but never made.

Race Pro is a good example of the PC -based game dumbed down for console sales. It's very easy to publish from PC to Xbox, the Xbox is just a PC. PS3 requires a whole different approach.

From Eurogamer on Superstars V8 ( I confused this with a similar Auz title):

"The first official screenshots were released last week, accompanying the scraps of information offered so far. This is often a worrying sign so close to launch."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/supersta...8-in-june-cheap

If no pre-release to press occurs one month prior to sales release, this always equals a poor game. Always. Also, cheap price is another bad sign.

Past releases: Screamer, and Screamer Rally. Get real.

NFS: Shift... come on, this series is arcade. They should call it, "NFS:Grid". I'll note that all marketing so far is showing nothing but crashes.



Sega licensed the Ferrari challenge engine to many developers for consoles subsequent to the arcade and Dreamcast versions. Sega sold rights to AM2, who made "F355 Challenge" (also not by Sega), AM2 sold to system 3, System 3 just updated the graphics for modern consoles, but if you ever actually played the games, you'd realize they were the same.



You spelled 'wrong' wrong.



I'm going to make up T-shirts with this phrase and sell them on PS3 fan sites. Perhaps get a tattoo.



You spelled 'there' wrong.
Of course a release date has been set, repeatedly, it's just never been met, then Sony denies any date. Sad truth is that GT5 was originally scheduled to release with the PS3.



You spelled 'Sony's' wrong.

Agreed, that's as crazy as releasing a demo and calling it "prologue", then charging money for it. And then re-releasing another demo and calling it, "spec III", then charging more money for it.



Really?, because according to many fansite game reviewers, and various Sony interviews with Kazunori Yamauchi, the AI was "vastly" improved in Prologue, which of course, is complete fiction. Nothing has changed from GT2.



You spelled 'racing' wrong.

Yes, Daytona and High speed ring are VERY challenging. Let's not forget the GT4 idea of running the game with a virtual driver for 24 hour races -that was true Yamauchi innovation: a racing game that excludes actual driving.
Let's hope they get Monaco right this time, instead of the 2X track width of the past.
The only good track model they ever used was Nordschleife, the rest are to make teenagers think they can be great drivers.



I doubt anyone experienced with both games will ever come to this conclusion.

Regardless of hot lapping alone, accurate racing games need accurate:

1. Race events modeling
2. Tyre wear modeling
3. bump/crash physics, or off-track physics
4. Proper competitive classes
5. accurate race lengths, or at least the option.
6. Mechanical failures

GT5 Prologue has none of this. Try jumping a real car over a bump at 200km/hr, there isn't much left after you land.

GT5 will never have crash modeling. The point of the game is to present car models and outstanding graphics, in a concerted effort between Sony and the auto Companies that pay to have their cars in the game. It's about developing fan bases in teenage boys, and convincing teenage boys they can all drive like Senna. Everyone feels good. This is a contrast to the early GT series.

As I've said -sim racing has been tried on consoles, and failed. The main problem is that it is rather easy to generate models and hire artists to make a game look good, but there are very few developers than can model game race events and accurate physics-this is difficult to do, and most of these people are employed on blockbuster games about killing people.

So while may racers will continue to be released on the PS3, they will likely continue to be poor quality, because with typical PS3 gaming audiences, it doesn't appear to matter.

Do I have to list the number of really, really, bad driving games on the PS3?

My PS3 is a Blue-Ray movie player these days.

Meanwhile, the Grand Prix legends projects just get better, and they actually get released!

Villes,

Much of what you write is either completely wrong, doubtful but debatable or simply your opinions that you're passing off as fact. I'm not even sure if it's worth a reply because I'm still trying to decide if you truly believe what you're writing or this an attempt to wind people up with what you see as humor.

I do agree in principle that console based racing sims are a bit of an oxymoron. And it's unlikely to change. I wrote about this in the NFS:Shift thread. The fact of the matter is, Arcade style racers are what sells. And they are by nature, all things considered, cheaper to develop than hard core simulators. The fact of the matter is, hard core racing sims may be an endangered species even on the PC. That said, the 2nd half of 2009 and first half of 2010 holds a lot of hope for the PS3 with: Supercar Challenge, NFS:Shift, Superstars of V-8 and GT5 on the horizon. Possibly, and even probably, none of these will offer everything a sim like GT Legends currently does. But to say sim racing on the PS3 is dead is far from the truth. Taken collectively, the above titles have much to offer.

Just some corrections to separate the facts from opinions:

- PD has never officially marked a release date for GT5.

- An Xbox 360 with it's PPC core is NOT just like a PC.

- The only thing Ferrari Challenge: Trofeo Pirelli has in common with 355 Challenge is that they both feature a Ferrari. It is most certainly NOT based on the same engine.

- NFS:Shift is a new game by a different team that simply happens to share the name of a franchise. It will NOT be like previous NFS games in the series.

You spelt many wrong. However I don't mind as I don't tend to proof read my own internet forum posts.

Ferrari Challenge and Supercar Challenge do not use the old F355 Challenge engine. Yes they see themselves as a spiritual sequel but no data has been used. The company that developed the engine is Eutechnyx a developer in the North East.

I got Ferrari Challenge on release, not a huge fan but the force feedback and the modeling of understeer is very good. Supercar Challenge is much better. I am currently in the closed beta and honestly, I would recommend you giving it a chance.

As far as AM2 not being Sega....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega-AM2 ( I know its a wiki link but still)

Need For Speed Shift is a reboot for the series. If you were to follow it more closely you would find that it is being made as a sim using a more advanced version of the GTR 2 engine. Included will be tyre modelling by Eero Piitulainen of Richard Burns Rally who has developed a totally new tyre-physics model.

If you have played Richard Burns Rally I am sure you can appreciate the physics model used there.

The developer of V8 Superstars has most recently made the last two World Superbike games. This is being made as a budget release as a "toe in the water" exercise. I will be honest, I don't hold out much hope for it.

Just wait one more week for the GT release date. As I said there has never been a release date stated so far. GT5 was never going to release with the PS3.

Spec III was a free update to the original version of GT5p as was Spec II surprisingly enough.

The AI is certainly improved from Gran Turismo 2 but obviously needs a lot more work, I agree.

B-Spec was a mode added to make it possible to do a 24 hour race without having to actually sit for 24 hours. Personally I would prefer a save game mode, available in the pause menu, hopefully they will implement this in GT5. B-spec is entirely optional by the way.

Daytona Road is actually a great track, with a relatively high power car and some N tyres it is a challenge. There are many tracks in GT4 that are great as well. I personally enjoy the fictional tracks, be it that they make me feel like a super driver or not.
Obviously the Nordschleife is the best track in the game but others, including the real life circuits of Infineon, Laguna Seca and Suzuka also provide a good challenge. Ones to note in particular include Citta di Aria and Costa di Amalfi.

The point to remember with GT5 Prologue is that is in fact, indeed, a prologue. Nothing else was ever claimed of it. That is why it sold for £19.99.

GT5 is going to have crash modelling it has been stated by Yamauchi many times, it may only be for the race cars but it is going to be implemented. With this implementation I imagine collision physics will be improved also.

Your opinion on the physics is obviously your own, needless to say I and many others disagree with you. Whilst Gran Turismo in its previous iterations were not really up there with the PC sims, GT5p is competing rather well. Used with a good wheel the physics are about as good as most PC sims and lacking behind IRacing in my opinion.

From AutoSimSport Magazine.

We don't just have decent physics here; we have great physics, with each car being treated to their own independent systems. And you notics, you can't help but notice, the vast differences in driving characteristics between the Suzuki Cappuccino, pumping out around 68BHP, and the Chevrolet Corvette Z06, pumping out around 600BHP. The driving experience is so well done that both of those cars are a blast to drive, even if the Suzuki is rather tame; the driving model, coupled with the confinements of an intricate and individually modeled cockpit, add up for one hell of a time.

Thought I recognized you.

Hey there!

thanks. i'll check that out later

GT5 will never get a release ey?........

;)

Obviously the wrong topic but I didn't want to start a fresh thread for this alone,but what the hell is this?

http://e3.gamespot.com/story/6211639/victo...and-new-details

Won't be a simulator,although the concept's funny..

Just imagine: Poor codemasters they get the FIA licence & then all the star teams & drivers split off & somebody picks up the FOTA license. Not that it will affect this release though and it's all a bit far fetched admittedly.

Maybe the Codemaster sim will be the new series

I can see a time when a good sim race will be watched by thousands of people either on TV or online. They are actually more fun to watch than the real races. More overtaking. More spectacular crashes. The skill level is more obvious as anyone can experience the cars and feel the difficulty involved.

has there been any news if there will be a career mode on the new games

They have a very good forum where we can check the news out! So check it out: Codemasters Forum

I hope there will also be nice unlocks like historic cars/drivers and tracks!

They now have a website up at http://www.formula1-game.com/

With a trailer on it....Looks good for flash video of a Wii game.

Eh? It looks absolutely rubbish.

I know the Wii isn't the king of graphics, but seriously, that wouldn't look out of place ten years ago on the Nintendo 64.

Not entirely fair ;) but it does look slightly worse than the last PS2 game, which is pretty poor! Ot perhaps it's the PSP version which might explain why (it looks about at good as the last PSP f1 game!)



(note, I don't think it is the PSP version, just that the Wii is a terrible platform for graphically realistic games)

Any Wii game looks ten years old, everything looks 'absolutely rubbish' on Wii so there's really no point in stating that.
Codemasters' Grid has no second rate graphics by any standard, so we're safe graphics wise for the two other consoles.

Edit: To add something more to the thread.

If I would judge by the other Codemasters games I will say we're looking forward to a pleasant and fun game, not necessarily hard core simulation, but no doubt fun. I don't game with a wheel so real hard core simulation is out of the question for me. Still having shitloads of fun with the controller, mainly on Forza Motorsport 2 (best racing on console by a mile) and looking forward to Forza 3 in a month or so.

This "game" will be junk IMO. Watered down console crap as usual. I will spare you the 10 page essay on why I think so, and I hope however buys it has fun and enjoys themselves. The learning curve should be pretty wide and a wide range of people should enjoy themselves.

I only came to post here, because of the news on official site of including the F1 wheel with the game. It's a wheel but where are the pedals? They go to all the trouble of making a special wheel and all it is, is a controller in the shape of a wheel? Since it's Wii it'll probably be able to accelerate just by pushing your right foot up and down, but what about force feedback? If it ain't broke (wheel and pedals concept) don't fix it IMO. And if they have a wheel with pedals for the other console releases, I'll eat my words.

To pixelpunk about Forza, I recently watched some youtube vids about the upcoming releases for NFS Shift (being marketted as a sim because it has cockpit view lol), and Forza etc. NFS Shift will be like Codemasters F1 game. Marketted as a sim but not even close. In the 9 min video, not once did the guy break traction on acceleration, and every overtake was made by dodgem cars style of banging others off track. The only sim characteristics it has is a reasonably immersive cockpit view, and it takes place on race tracks, not the streets. It's essentially Toca/Race driver GRID in a NFS box. Forza looked really good, it was the only one where the driving looked reasonable and accurate. They even have deforming sidewalls of the tyres. Only problem is that it's limited to 6 (or is it 8?) cars in a race. It looked comparable to the PC sims though, just with less cars on track. There is no sim out there that has the graphics of a console game with the driving of a PC sim. If there were, that would be the holy grail. A Forza 3 PC version, with 32 or 50 cars on track online would be amazing. There would still be wreckers and turn 1 crashes, but leagues would weed out the idiots. It will probably be a long time until there is a merge of the flashy console graphics and the PC simness. I haven't seen Gran Turismo in many years but I assume it's like Forza.

Are you really going to judge NFS:Shift by that ridiculous promo video? I'm the first one to admit, I'm not fully convinced myself but considering the team that developed the physics model for Shift and considering the publisher responsible for the ridiculous crash-and-bang preview, I'm going to at least sit myself in front of the demo for a few hours in pro mode before I make any judgments, one way or the other. I suggest you might want to do the same. I think the fact that Patrick Soderland is behind this title is why it's being marketed as a sim and not because it has 'cockpit view'. Give it a chance.

What he said. I don't have high expectations, as it seems to be a rare occasion when a console racing game comes near to being a sim, but it is worth waiting to give it a hands on try. The preview on you tube means nothing.

FWIW, this will be simultaneously released on the PS3, Xbox360 and PC as well. The developer has been very tight lipped on which platform the stills and video come from but I assume most are from the PC as I've seen at least one on screen menu showing the ESC key to exit flash by on video.

This game will be awesome so stop crying. The released video and images are for the PSP and Wii. The PC, PS3 and 360 game will be much more releastic. I am sure it will be the best F1 game.

It just depends on your taste. It's obvious that I am talking from a hardcore sim point of view. I want to be able to walk into McLaren's Technology Centre and drive their sim. For most, this would be "boring" or too hard. For others, it would be a dream come true. Pedro gets PAYED to do that stuff.

NFS Shift and this F1 game will be fun for alot of people. If you like games on the fun side, it will be right up your alley. NFS Shift brings it slightly closer to sim part, but even that has alienated alot of fans.. the ones who want to drive on the streets with neons. It's hard to please everyone isn't it?


Good for you. But I don't share your hope. I know that I am right, and I wasn't just going off the video(s) of the game. But what the developers themselves said, when asked questions (during the interviews) during the videos. It was obvious the market that this game is aimed at. And who can blame them, it's how they need to make money. If people don't buy their game, they fail, lose money and can go out of business. It's closer to a sim then previous games and there is a market for that. The guys that want a sim type driving experience that is also fun, where you don't need to be a race engineer to setup the car and get lap time out of it.

The true sims will never make good sales because there isn't a strong enough market for it. The budgets are very low, and you get 1 title every 4-5 years if you are lucky. If it's released every year, it's not a sim. Sad but true.


I have no doubt that you will enjoy the "game" very much. Especially with the aids turned on.

Oh no, that game looks terrible.

I don't know much Wii or PSP, but trailer (Wii version?) looks out absolutely rubbish if comparing to PSP's incoming Gran Turismo game.
Meanwhile we wait real F1 game to arrive, let's go play old Slick N' Slide...

yeah sure. you all hate it but will be buying the game when it comes out! the wii f1 2009 comes out very soon, I read october! and it comes with a small f1 steering wheel for the controller but no room for the motion plus in the steering wheel so I guess it won't support the motion plus.

and sorry but gran turismo sucks big time compared to forza3.