How can you be so certain? I could very well be a 2nd language slip rather than a Freudian one.

Shortly, last year will not be repeated

I think you know to what I was referring with 'it'... not to the written sentence but to "Kimi coming out on top"

Since before you lost your sense of humour.

Kimi is the fastest in most races, no doubt about it as proves his fastest lap palmares.
Kimi was fastest in 2008 Winter testing and will be in this as well.
The big question mark is if he will solve his qualifying issues in 2009 and start the race further ahead in the grid.
Maybe Andrea Stela will talk about TOC [The Theory of Contraits] to Kimi.

And even if he doesnt improve qualifying compared to last 2 years, there is hope that:
-overtaking will be easier
-safety cars will not always go against him
-he will not take so many big point DNFs with Hamilton

But there is also fear that the car will not be as strong as last year, but anyway, it's irrevelant for outscoring Massa

Perhaps Ferrari will get their act together as far as relibility and strategy go too, that affects both drivers, not just Kimi.
What is this theory about?

Sorry, Theory of ConstraiNts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory_of_Constraints

Its about the bottlenecks that holds and limits the performance of a whole process and how to eliminate them.
In this case, process of winning races/championships.

Some evil people say the bottleneck in Kimi's case is called Vodka and he should attend to AA meetings.
But I rather say qualifying performance/strategy.

No shit, I rather think those kind of people as living brain donors rather than evil....

Didn't realize Milka defected from her IndyCar seat. Hmmm. Isn't the choice obvious? Milka in a landslide!

So far their score is 9-8 in wins, 12-5 in poles and 191-185 in points in Massas favour.

I expect Massa to outscore Raikkonen in 2009 once again. We'll see what happens.

It really depends on so many factors. You got a very motivated Felipe, who finished the season off strong and was half a lap shy of being WDC. He'll be pumped to win it this year for sure. Then you have Kimi, who had a troublesome year in 08. I think he'll be strong out of the gate to reassert himself as Ferrari's main guy. It really is too close to call so early in the testing season. If I had to choose, I'd pick Kimi, just because I can't see him having two poor seasons in a row. We shall see soon enough.

Btw, the poll options just are as laughable as the ones from the last KR - FM scoreboard thread.

Adjusted with the likely result in mind, again?

You forgot the greatest prize, which is 1-0 for Kimi. Wins. poles and points are just tools to achieve that

The greatest prize and fastest laps are two stats in which Kimi outperformed Massa, hence they are "forgotten".

I expect Kimi to reassert himself in 2009 but it can go either way if the last two seasons are any indication of how close it has been between these two teammates.

Pray tell us how the poll creator determined what the likely result would be? If anything, the options cover a pretty wide range of outcomes.

Apparently, his tonsil problems for last week were actually a massive hangover and Ferrari sent him away

That is very true but Massa has also been less fortunate than Kimi in the past two years.

It's not unreasonable for Ferrari fans to say they would 0.5s per lap up the road if Kubica and Vettel (for example) or some other drivers were doing the racing and development, but while they are stuck with these two (who may be quick, or may be handicapping the Ferrari race results, perhaps they are both driving at Barrichello level, whilst the Schumi level performance remains in the car?) then Massa is clearly the quicker and more consistent - the title challenger.

Did you just compare the Brazilian GP of last two year?

too close to call

kimi is favourite to not continue because he said he doesnt want tobe in f1 too long, achived his aims, possible lack of motivation and indifference, and he wanted to start a family after leaving f1 etc etc

I can picture Kimi out of F1, but definitely not as a family man.

Spoken like a true Schumi believer. As for Massa being "clearly" something, that's a bit premature given they haven't even done one race this season I remember how pundits like you were boldly predicting that Massa is clearly useless without TC about 1 year ago, hope you are choking on humble pie later.

Massa was quite fortunate last year in fact to finish within 1 point from WDC last year in fact. You only say Hungaroring and Singapore, but what about Canada+France or Spa? Massa got very, very lucky.

Show me a season when Kimi didnt have 2 DNF out of his control from a strong position? You make it sound as if Kimi had perfect luck in 2007 or in 2008, but that's far from the truth. In all sensible measures he had roughly as bad luck as Massa, if not worse. However I dont like to speculate too much about luck, because it's supposed to even out over a time and the rest is skill of the individual and the team.

In 2007 KR was lucky that the main enemy - McLaren - imploded due to the spy scandal and their drivers rivalry just at the crucial moment of his title charge.

FM did not have that kind of luck in 2008.

Oh come on, isn't this becoming a little tiresome..?

Anyway I think Kimi will have another terrible year, unless the slicks are entirely to his liking. :\

how was massa lucky in Canada again with three pit-stops ?
Kimi's luck in 2007 was mostly Mclaren losing the WDC with 2 races to go and an 18 point gap. Things like that happen very very rarely. Massa could have also won last year if he would have had some luck in the last race and Lewis does not overtake Glock in the last corner..

Of course Massa would have won the championship if he would have got lucky there too. The more luck the better but he already had it enough. Thank the unknown heights that championships are not won on luck alone.

Choking on humble pie... reminds me of a certain fellow member who predicted flying pigs in case of Massa being a serious Raikkonen challenger.

Kimi's 2007 and Massa's 2008 championship campaign were very similar with both having their moments of glory and their moments of disappointment (Kimi - beginning of 2007, Massa - some spins). The difference was that in the decisive moments of championship Kimi had more luck than Felipe and that counted. It should be pretty much 1-1 or 0-0 so far performance-wise.

A real shame that Massa missed the title last year. Now KR fanboys will always use this "argument" to "prove" that their favourite is better than Massa, because he is a world champion and Massa is not. The circumstances are totally forgotten. Have KR fans already forgotten, how once Alonso fans said that FA was better than KR because he had more titles with the help of luck, something Kimi fans refused to agree with. Double standards, eh?

Well, I replied in kind to a "prediction" but I only questioned the basis on which that prediction was made and gave an exaggerated example of my own. Too bad for a certain fellow member who assumed it was written in stone and reflected what I actually thought Reminds me of a certain fellow member who was bravely bragging about his ignore list only to chicken out of it

Cry me a river that Massa didn't win. He spun like a pinball at the Silverstone GP and Malaysia was a bit optimistic - trying to catch Kimi All he needed was not luck (of which he had plenty) but a little more common sense and point collecting. Massa had his chances and didn't use them, Kimi did. So far it's 1-0 in that unimportant category.

Anyway FM was more fortunate than KR in Can GP,because at least he wasn't crashed by his main rival and got some points!

There are 18 races in the whole season,not only the last one,remember it!

Both FM and KR had lucky and unlucky time in last two years,but KR has caught the chance and FM has not! So KR is still the ONLY ONE WDC in Ferrari now!

To me, the race in which Felipe lost his WDC chances was Fuji.
Lewis had the pole, easy, but made a mistake at the start and his car was not performing well.
Even though, Massa crashed Lewis when he lost the position and got a walk-through penalty and latter an issue w/ Bourdais.
I believe that Massa would finish further ahead if he had not crashed and Lewis would finish with no points anyway.
Also Massa strained so much his engine trying to recovee path that he had to save his weekend in China, when Kimi paid him back - again - Interlagos 2007.

Ferrari prefers Massa bcs his acts reminds them about Schumy: Flip-Flop Massa will make whatever it takes for the team.
Flip is Ferrari's dream driver. A mix of Schumy and Barrichello. Fast, Dirty and Doormat.

Thats undisputed, just like it is undisputable that their score is 1-1 after two years as Ferrari teammates.

Ferrari prefers Massa? Dunno if that is true, but every sane teamboss would prefer the more co-operative driver between two drivers of equal speed.

I felt sad when Kimi threw Lewis out of track in Spa'08.
It was the firts time I saw Kimi do a "more co-operative" thing.

But I understand, it's very hard to keep - any kind of - jobs these days.
Kimi sold his soul...

?

When did Kimi throw lewis off the track? If you're talking about the chicane incident, that's what any sane driver would have done. Take the corner and push the other guy to the outside.

As for this argument, the fact that we are having it again simply means that Kimi has not performed while Massa has gone up in people's estimations. Last year, he shows true heart and I really felt for him even though I am not a fan.

Why can't we just hope for a Ferrari WCC and the last race a decider between Kimi and Massa, best man takes it.

"Simply means"?
It's hard to perform when you suffer a trafic accident like in Canada.
Kimi would get 1st or 2nd [vs. Lewis] while Massa was nowhere far behind Kubica and Nick.

Also in Spa, Kimi also deserved 1st or 2nd [vs. Lewis] by merrit, but Massa is the one that collected the points.

In a crazy way, the fact that Kimi fought some hard battles against Lewis benefited tremendously Massa.
I think you can start calling Massa Professor, like Prost was once know.

There are so many "scores" that the latter is quite disputable.

By season by points: 1-1. YES, undisputable
Total over two seasons by points 1-0 Massa. NO, disputable

That might be disputable in the homeland of the flying pigs, but nowhere else.

Well Kimi is a WDC, Felipe ain't, period.

Yes so is Jacques Villeneuve but his father Gilles isn't. Guess who is rated higher.

A WDC doesn't say everything. Although it's true and you can't take that away from him and he deserved it. But every year is different and a WDC from the past doesn't count in a new year.

Some posts in some threads have guessed like the F60 is having problems with getting tyres up to temperature again. How true is this? And could this be an advantage to Massa again?

if massa ends up faster it's true, kimi is screwed by the car
if he ends up slower, than the car is perfectly balanced and kimi is simply better

"So far their score is 9-8 in wins, 12-5 in poles and 191-185 in points in Massas favour.
I expect Massa to outscore Raikkonen in 2009 once again. We'll see what happens."

Giacomo

Massa x Alonso in 2010, you read it here first.

With the help of Massa what Kimi couldn't return the following year....

hehe, Massas fans are starting to become too heavy in the head i am afraid. Same as their golden boy lately. Shall we wait and see? Confidence and arrogance , the line is not as thin as it looks. Be careful ! You might end up as annoying as some of the Hamilton lover boys no disrespect for any of the drivers thought. Both brilliant and if I can add to the same group, Kimi too ;)

As if Räikkönen fans never make overconfident and arrogant comments.
Since the end of 2006 we have been reading threads on this BB on how Kimi will wipe the floor with Massa...

Have you seen Canada, Spa and China races

Massa only helped Kimi in Brazil.

Actually if you bothered to read you'd find that your statement that the score is 1-1 IS indeed disputable. The score as far as points go after two years in Ferrari is 1-0 in Massa's favor