Haven't had any luck dating this photo. Looks like 1930-31 Legion Ascot, Wilbur Shaw is driver. Written on back of photo is Blu Green Special #37. I do not know if that is correct or a former owners' guess...

My kind of thread!

This may turn out to become a dialogue between the two of us, but if you don't mind?

As for the Shaw #37 pic, I'm sure it's late 1930. The car is the 1930 Sparks/Schofield which, to the best of my knowledge, debuted on Dec 7 as #37 "Sparks Special". Shaw crashed that day, and I don't have that car again in my (incomplete) data until January 11 in 1931, when Stubby Stubblefield drove it as #5 "Sparks Special" - BUT - I have also a picture of Bill Cummings in the car with #37, so it must be from 1930! My guess would be that Shaw drove it only Dec 7, perhaps also Dec 14, then Cummings Dec 21 and maybe Dec 28 at San Jose - that's all the races left in the season!

Btw, Stubblefield did very well in the car in early 1931, taking many second place finishes at Ascot, and a couple of wins at San Jose. In June, the car was fitted with a new 4-cylinder Miller 200 engine, and Stubby went on a rampage, winning four races on the trot, closing rapidly on championship leader Ernie Triplett. After getting beaten by Ernie on July 15, Stubby decided to change horses, and left to drive the ex-Souders Duesenberg with a Cragar engine for Clarence Tarbet - which effectively ended his shot at the championship!

Chris Vest took over the Sparks/Miller for one race, finishing second, and then Arvol Brunmier got the call, and responded by taking another four races in a row! On October 18, at the opening of the new Oakland Speedway, Arvol (by now a distant second to Triplett in points) crashed spectacularly on lap 3, and got his walking papers! Art Sparks repaired the car, and put Bill Cummings into the seat again, and before the season was out Bill had won another three races, and finished second as often - all in all enough for Sparks to carry off the Owners Championship!


Why am I telling you all this? Becaue this car, on February 28 in 1932 (the same day the #48 "Blu-Green" debuted), became the #6 "Gilmore Special", and to celebrate the occasion, it won the race with Cummings driving, and Shaw in the #48 second - a Gilmore 1-2, the first of many!


So, in conclusion, I don't believe the car was a "Blu-Green Special" in 1930 (or even 1931) already, but I may be wrong. I am struggling to identify the men in the picture - should be the crew, but is that Art Sparks, second from right? Almost looks like Legion people to me!

As for the GILMORE LION, Pete/Danny de Paolo car(s), it must be said that both cars shared a number of body parts and running gear, so if anyone was to say it was one and the same car, that would not be terribly wide off the mark! I know, I told you differently in the email, but looking again at those pictures, I notice that the #35 already has the new tubular front axle (it debuted with a Model T one), and the fact that both cars ran as #22 in 1931 is also a pointer in this direction!

In short, the car debuted in November of 1930 as the #35 "Gilmore Lion Special", owned by former Indy winner Pete de Paolo, driven by Lou Moore, and wrenched by Ernie Olson - quite a combo! It apparently had an early Miller 183 engine, with left-hand exhaust, which pretty much limits it to the ex-Cliff Durant/Chevrolet Special, or the ex-Tommy Milton/Leach Special! The Milton engine was last seen on the East Coast, ca. 1929, so my money is on the former.

Despite all the star personnel, the car didn't do very well, and Pete de Paolo appears to have lost interest during the spring of 1931. In the fall, we now find his younger brother Danny de Paolo enter a "new car" for Phil Pardee, and hoping to take over the driving chores "soon". This car now had a new frame (reportedly from a Chevy) and a new engine, one of the earliest 4-cylinder Miller 220s. Pardee didn't do very well, and was soon displaced by Stubblefield (vacating the Tarbet Duesey in turn). The luckless Stubby was then followed by Brunmier (after the Oakland crash), and then visiting Bryan Saulpaugh from Illinois. "Socko" Saulpaugh and the De Paolo/Miller really gelled, and on December 20 the car - and Gilmore! - finally won their first race.


At the very next race, "Socko" had his famous crash into the starter's stand at Oakland, and as soon as the car was repaired, Howdy Wilcox flipped it out of the ballpark at Ascot, in the crash that ended Charley Gelston's career. Billy Arnold had a one-off (?) drive in the car at Oakland, and future Indy winner Kelly Petillo also had some seat time, but not until Lester Spangler got the ride in March did results improve. From summer to late fall, Les won no less than nine races in the little car, and came really close to challenging Triplett for the championship when he broke his arm in a National Championship race at Oakland, incidentally driving the same car he was to perish in half a year later!

Meanwhile, the efforts of the younger de Paolo to emulate his famous brother had resulted in nothing more than a few practice runs and a broken nose, so it was Wilbur Shaw who took over the driving chores after the Spangler accident, with the car by now running in a new livery as the "Red Lion Special". Wilbur finished second four times, but couldn't win, and it was first Spangler, then Saulpaugh again in the car until the latter crashed fatally with it on Apr 22. With that, the de Paolos had had enough of it, and sold the car to Walt Harris, who ran it for Kelly Petillo, George Connor, Harris Insinger, Mel Kenealy, Rex Mays, and doubtlessly many others.

Excellent, excellent, excellent!!!

Here's a couple shots I have of Billy Arnold at Oakland, written on back is date Feb 21, 1932...

Yes, February 21, that's the date I also have! Arnold was relieved in the 100-mile race by Kelly Petillo, and together they finished a disappointing 9th! Won by Carey, 2nd Triplett, 3rd Palmer, 4th Stapp, 5th Kenealy, 6th Wilcox, 7th Herk Edwards, 8th Mel McKee, 9th Arnold/Petillo, 10 Cliff Wilson. After that event, the Gilmore stable grew quickly to six cars...

Thanks for the pictures!

The drivers are named, but what about the cars?

Kelly Petillo is in the 1932 Harvey Ward/Miller "Gilmore Speedway" #7 in 1933, although this is a strange paint job that I haven't seen before!

Bill Cummings is in "Poison Lil", the 1932 Art Sparks/Miller "Gilmore" or "S & W" #5 in 1933, blue with silver - a legendary car if eve there was one!

Ernie Triplett is in the 1931 Bill White/Miller "Miller" #1 in 1932, red I believe, or possibly blue again. This car probably had the frame from the original Frank Lockhart Miller 91, the 1926 Indy winner, although it looks like it is already chopped in this picture!

Lester Spangler is in the 1931 Danny de Paolo/Miller "Red Lion" #2 in 1933, red with cream, as described above - it got a new radiator shell in late '32 - Ascot cars were changing fast!

Wilbur Shaw is in the 1932 Leon Duray/Miller "Mallory" #3 in 1933, black and silver?, also a former Miller 91, shortened and converted to a rear cross spring.

Babe Stapp is in the 1931 Chad McClurg/Miller "Gilmore Speedway" #15 in 1933, cream with red, the car originally had a Cragar engine, but the Babe bought it for '33 and had a new Miller 255 installed.

Awesome Michael!

That ad appears on the back page of a May 1933 Gilmore Graphic, a monthly gas station giveaway that had blurbs about racing, hunting, Gilmore news and products. There is a nice writeup that mentions the Gilmore drivers at the time; Triplett getting into a Gilmore car on April 2nd, Spangler rehabbing his broken arm as a truck driver for Gilmore, Howdy Wilcox at Indy, death of Bob Carey, Class A newcomer Rex Mays, etc...

Here is the article...



Closer look at the cars...







Have photos of Spangler in the DePaolo #2 and Cummings in the S/W #5 "Poison Lil" and the Stapp one...

This is the earliest mention I have of Gilmore sponsoring. Before it was Gilmore Oil Co. in 1923, it was Gilmore Petroleum that supplied fuel to area airports, service stations. Here is a clipping about Jimmy Murphy choosing Gilmore Gasoline for his Duesenberg to win the 1922 Fresno 150...

The Lucero "Legion Ascot Speedway" book has a photo of Danny DePaolo and Phil Pardee with the car. I've shown you before the photos I have with Saulpaugh in it. That is a great book but you can't always go by the info in it though ;) . I have had better luck going off of Gilmore ads for early info...





After the DePaolo car, I have the #5 Harvey Ward, the #6 Sparks car and the car Earl Haskell and Fred Blauvelt purchased from Harry Miller in late Jan. 1932. Car first appeared at Ascot on Feb. 28. Shaw won the Helmet Dash that day and was presented the crown by heavyweight boxer, Jim Jeffries. Shaw finished second in the main event behind Bill Cummings but then went on and won the next two Ascot events. Sound right?

I believe this photo dates Feb. 28? Do you know if the car was painted yet, as it appears to be bare metal in pics?



Not sure about date on this one...


March 30, 1932 Muroc Dry Lake AAA Speed Trials...

I'm unable to supply any information about this car, beyond what you see, and that I know where it was in the year TNF badges were first distributed.

Cool stuff!
Yes, beware of the text in the Lucero book! The pictures are great, but much of the text is pure fiction!!

Interesting advert - I can add a few details:

"Legion Ascot Speedway, December, 1931
100 LAP FEATURE RACE"

As already mentioned, December 20, Bryan Saulpaugh in the #22 "Gilmore Lion" De Paolo/Miller, 47'22.4", 79 mph

"Legion Ascot Speedway, February 28, 1932
ITALIAN HELMET DASH
100 LAP FEATURE RACE"

Dash: Wilbur Shaw, #48 "Blu-Green" Blauvelt/Miller, 58.51", 76 mph
Feature: Bill Cummings, #6 "Gilmore" Sparks/Miller, 48'55.0", 76 mph

"Oakland Speedway, March 6, 1932
FASTEST QUALIFYING LAP
FASTEST 5 MILE SPRINT RACE
5 MILE SPRINT RACE
50 MILE FEATURE RACE"

Qualifying: Bill Cummings, #6 "Gilmore" Sparks/Miller, 37.38", 96 mph
Heat 1: Bill Cummings, #6 "Gilmore" Sparks/Miller, 3'15.6", 92 mph
Heat 2: Wilbur Shaw, #48 "Blu-Green" Blauvelt/Miller, 3'19.8", 90 mph
Feature: Bill Cummings, #6 "Gilmore" Sparks/Miller, 32'09.7", 93 mph

"Legion Ascot Speedway, March 13, 1932
ITALIAN HELMET DASH
100 LAP FEATURE RACE"

Dash: Les Spangler, #19 "Gilmore Lion" De Paolo/Miller, 56.52", 79 mph
Feature: Wilbur Shaw, #48 "Blu-Green" Blauvelt/Miller, 47'43.4", 78 mph

"Legion Ascot Speedway, March 27th, 1932
100 LAP FEATURE RACE"

Wilbur Shaw, #48 "Blu-Green" Blauvelt/Miller, 48'15.8", 77 mph

"Legion Ascot Speedway, April 10th, 1932
ITALIAN HELMET DASH
100 LAP FEATURE RACE"

Dash: Arvol Brunmier, #5 "Gilmore Speedway" Ward/Miller, 55.45", 81 mph
Feature: Bill Cummings, #6 "Gilmore" Sparks/Miller, 47'25.4", 79 mph

Absolutely, except that I believe the #48 was built by Fred Blauvelt and Myron Stevens, and purchased by Earl Haskell later that year (at which the number changed to #9, and the name of the car to "Gilmore Lion Cub").

The car appears to have run "in the white" (unpainted, bare metal) indeed for a couple of races, at least. Your picture is from Ascot, I'm sure, and I've seen another one from Oakland which must be the March 6 event. Interestingly, it shows both the #48 and the #5 "Gilmore Speedway" unpainted, along with two other cars. It was the first race for the latter, which was apparently only just not ready for the Feb 28 event. By Easter (March 27), the four Gilmore cars already dominated at will, with Cummings leading from pole position for 29 laps until retiring, and Shaw, Spangler and Brunmier finishing 1-2-3!

Thanks Frank S.

I've seen that photo before but will have to look for the info I have on it, if any.

Thanks again Michael for all your help. It is very much appreciated.

The info I have on the #48 regarding Earl Haskell/Fred Blauvelt comes from Wilbur Shaw's autobiography "Gentleman, Start Your Engines". In which Wilbur states that after the Jan 24, 1932 race at Ascot, in which he won in "Red Pete" or now the #44 Durkee Motors Special, he was approached by Earl Haskell and Fred Blauvelt...

"We've just made a deal with Harry Miller," said Earl, "for a new car which should be the fastest thing on the coast. How would you like to drive for us?"

Despite the success that day, all of the previous trouble I'd had with the Vance car flashed into my mind. Without a moment's hesitation, I accepted Earl's offer and on the last Sunday of February the car was ready for me.

I'll look around to see if I have anything else that mentions the #48. I believe everything I have names it as the Haskell/Miller. I have an article blurb about the Muroc run that I cannot locate right now. May not say much anyways other than mentioning what records were broken that day.

BTW... Having a blast talking Gilmore with you!

Interesting! Reading the quote, I think they are refering to Harry Miller only in connection with the engine, but I am surprised to hear that Haskell should've been invloved from the start!

Same here!

The book of Wilbur's memoirs was written twenty years later. He may have had a lapse of memory. He had a couple other "foggy" moments in the book too. Any info, right or wrong, is all info/reference material for me.

I could type all this from the book but it would take me forever- I'm a slow typer.;)

Interesting chapter in the book, tells of Shaw's early times with the Gilmore Co., his lion cub- Hannibal (Gilmore II), the April 20 Brunmier finish after he hit Gordon and Stapp's crash in the Sparks #6, in which he broke his arm...





.

Some #48 Blu Green Special photos from the book. Are all the names correct in the photo below?...

.







.

I have two dates for this photo of the Stapp crash- Apr. 27 and May 18...

.

Yes, it seems Wilbur's memory is foggy in places, and rather not surprisingly so. But still, it's interesting stuff! E.g., he writes that he started to use the helmet "religiously" and at once, after being presented with it when "at the top of the list in the Pacific Coast point standing", so that must've been Easter (March 27), or the "Daytime Finale" on April 10 - should help with the picture dating!
Yes, I believe so.

Stapp's accident was on April 27, in the first heat race that day, so in this case Wilbur remembered correctly , except that he finished second behind Brunmier, and ahead of Gardner! The car looks pretty well mangled, though!

On a sombre note, Art Sparks managed to repair the car in ten days only for Jimmy Sharp to crash fatally at Oakland... After that, he sold the remains (to Art Martinson) and started to build "Poison Lil"...

This is the kind of thread we used to see, the kind that created TNF 'history'...

Keep it up guys, I'm sure many are lapping it all up!

Thanks for the info on the "Stapp crash" date. I was 99% sure it was on April 27 for in the May 4 Ascot program the car is listed but not Stapp (no driver is listed for the #6). His PC Championship points went up less than a point too from 96.66 to 97.41 and stayed there for some time. Also, in the "Flashes From The Speedway" notes, there is a mention that... "Jimmy "Sharp-Eyed" Sharp, who has long been a favorite with local fans, may drive the No. 6 Gilmore Special tonight."



Do you know when exactly Sparks sold the car/remains? I have no info for June, in the July 13 & 20 Ascot programs I have Mel McKee driving Sparks' No. 6 Gilmore Special.

That was already the new car. The first info I have of Martinson driving a "Miller 220" (must be the Sparks/Miller, then) is from August 25, a non-AAA race at Lexington (NE). He also drove it at Pikes Peak, and many other races in the Midwest before he returned to the Pacific Coast in October, with Lloyd Axel driving. I believe the car had #30, then.

How about the Marks #6 after the Carey crash, when was it repaired and ready to race again as the #7 Marks/Miller? I have an Oct 1933 Ascot program with it listed. Below is a 1933 photo of Joe Marks, Jr? sitting in what I take is the repaired car, I believe co-owner Mary "Grandma/Mama Marks" Falconi (also seen it as Falcione) is standing in background...



Here is a scan I received of a photo of Joe Marks, Jr and Mary Falconi that dates 5/3/1940...

Thanks for the pictures!

Yes, the car was quickly repaired, and raced for many more years, and very successfully, too! I believe it ran again for the first (?) time on June 18 in 1933, barely two months after the accident, and Mauri Rose won a 50-miler at Milwaukee in it! Other drivers to use it with success include Kelly Petillo and George Connor, the latter taking the coveted one-mile dirt track record in it at Springfield on August 22 in 1936, just one day before colliding with Doc MacKenzie at Milwaukee, unfortunately with tragic consequences for the latter.

Looking at the picture, the car appears to have gotten a new frame, although that didn't look too damaged in the Carey accident. I believe it may have ended up as the (Steve) Truchan Special in the forties, but I can't be sure. If true, Indy winners Johnnie Parsons and Lee Wallard drove it, too!

Not sure about "Grandma" Falcioni (or Falcone, Falcione...), but she was the mother-in-law for Joe Marks Sr., and I thought that would be him in the second picture - could be wrong, though.

There is an article about the Gilmore Oil Company published in the Sept 1977 edition of Old Car Illustrated (Vol.3 Number2). Not highly detailed but worth a look. See below.

There is now an HO scale kit of the Gilmore gas station depicted on the first page of the article which is quite nice if you're into HO modelling.

Thanks for posting that article fredeuce.

I seen that one 25 years ago or so, as my father acquired it from someone. Pretty accurate writeup for the time. Alan Darr had several writeups on Gilmore history/memorabilia. For awhile, it seemed like Gilmore stuff appeared monthly. Great mag while it was Old Car Ill! Do you have any other issues as I am missing a few and was wondering if any Gilmore mentions or photos were in them?

Vol 1, #2 - Winter
Vol 3, #1
Vol 3, #3
Vol 4, #2
Vol 4, #5
Vol 5, #6
Vol 5? - 1979 Fall Special Issue

Regarding the Shaw gas station model in the last pic- thats the best set-up I've seen of one put together. They are on ebay often.

Gilmore,
I have all of those mags from day one up until early 1981 when it was revamped.

There is a lot of early USA dirt track history in those mags. I will have a look when I get a chance to see if there is anything else of interest. I know there are articles about the Gilmore re-unions back in the 70's but they are not quite on point.

Thanks for your complimentary remarks about the model of the Shaw gas station. Not quite finished yet but getting there.

That article makes interesting reading, I always thought that John Cobb’s Railton was backed by Mobil. It states that in 1940 Socony - Vacuum controlled both Gilmore and Mobil, so were the two companies linked before then?

Good question.

The article states that by 1940 Vacuum-Socony held about 75% of the shares in Gilmore. That suggests that there must have been an ongoing buy up of shares up over time. As to when the became the majority shareholder it doesnt say but you would have to assume that Vacuum influence on the Gilmore Board was well advanced before 1940.

Gilmore backed Cobb twice. In August of 1938, they sponsored/supplied both Eyston and Cobb on there record breaking attempts at Bonneville. I am not positive though if Gilmore was still sponsoring Cobb when he later set the (350.?) mark on Sept. 15th. Which was then broken by Eyston the next day. They again sponsored Cobb's August 1939 attempts which is mentioned/shown in the OCI article. Cobb set the records on August 23. Ab Jenkins also had a record breaking Bonneville run with Gilmore in July 1940 (July 23?). Mobil then took over all the speed trials and the Economy Runs. Earl Gilmore was friends with Cobb, Eyston and Jenkins.



For many years, Gilmore Oil's primary supplier was Mobil. Many stations sold Mobil products as well. Gilmore Oil was a spinoff of the AF Gilmore Co, the latter still exists today in Los Angeles. MObil only purchased the Gilmore Oil division.

No mention of the lion and his involvement in motor sports yet...

I have asked a couple of friends if they had heard of the Gilmore link with the John Cobb Railton, but like me they only knew of the Mobil connection. I assume that in the U.K there was no need to publicise the Gilmore brand; which was unavailable here.

Going off topic, in the 30’s there was a Wall of Death at Southend Kersal, it was ridden by Tornado Smith and his wife Dynamite Doris, they had a lioness that would ride in a sidecar!

From what I know, have seen/read, Mobil sponsored Cobb's runs post-WWII. I have not seen a photo of it pre-WWII with the Mobil Pegasus image, only the Gilmore Lion image. After acquiring a majority stake in Gilmore Oil Co. in early 1940s, Mobil took over all the sponsoring, speed trials and economy runs that Gilmore Oil Co. held.

Your right about the advertising of Gilmore products in the U.K. but I still find it odd that there wouldn't be much info over there as most of the stories or "lore" and Cobb/Gilmore items I see for sale (ebay) come from the U.K.

Couple of ebay.uk items offered now...

1/43 1939 RAILTON LAND SPEED RECORD CAR JOHN COBB

JOHN COBB AUTOGRAPH

In a sense, this whole thread is about the Gilmore lion and his involvment in motor sports.

Always liked that pic and the others involving lions and Walls-of-Death. There were quite a few of them back in the day. Gilmore Oil Co. had NO involvement in any of them. If they had, you would see Gilmore advertising all over the place.

Well, I know this topic is a few years old. But I thought I would share a Gilmore picture, and maybe somebody here can give me more info about it.

Our best guess is that this picture is from the mid to late 1920s. My grandfather Nishan Amerian is third from the right. He worked as a polisher and plater in the Los Angeles area in the late 1920s and early 1930s, before joining his brother inlaw in their own business, Angelus Plating Works.

The picture is from the second week of September in 1932. The car is the famous "Poison Lil", the Sparks-Weirick/Miller that is probably the winningest car in the history of Sprint Car racing. It was built in the early summer of 1932, and initially ran with a predominantly white livery. For the September 14 race at Ascot it appeared with this pretty royal blue/chrome job, and incidentally scored its second of more than a hundred wins that day, with future Indy 500 winner Kelly Petillo driving.

Nice!!!.... thanks for posting the pic, JerryB. All polished up, the #6 must have been a sight to behold that day.

Regarding your grandfather's business- ANGELUS Plating Works, were they into making water transfer decals as well? I have a Gilmore (license?) decal that apparently was made by ANGELUS PACIFIC, out of Los Angeles. I've been searching all morning to find it, but haven't yet. All that I can find right now are the ebay auction photos from when I bought it.

Thanks for the replies.

Angelus is a pretty popular business name, I see it all the time. Angelus Medical is just down the street, Angelus Block is close too, etc.

Angelus Plating Works was strictly a plating shop in the beginning. Eventually, they started plating various automotive items, including exhaust extentions. At some point, they started making the tips themselves, and it eventually grew to be the entire business. We're still around, coming up on 80 years now, it's still a family business...
http://www.angelusplating.com/

That September 1932 date would make a lot of sense, my grandfather was still working for other companies, possibly including the plating shop behind them in the picture. Somebody sent me this link about a "Poison Lil" car, but it looks like it wasn't made until 1935. Is this the same thing?...
http://www.vanderbiltcupraces.com/index.ph...er_at_the_sarat

Different car, but there's a connection. George Weaver was a great fan of Rex Mays, who drove the original Poison Lil in the latter half of the thirties.

I figured the name (ANGELUS) was common for a business. Guess I was just having a "dumb blonde" moment when I posted that.

What a lovely photograph of a dazzling car. I often wish that British teams, manufacturers and special builders had adopted the group photo mania of so many Italian and American outfits. Basically it never seemed to occur to many of our blokes. Which is a pity.

DCN

Hello Folks ,

On ebay now there is a picture of a crashed car for sale that alledges it is a wreck of Bob Carey's. In it you can see the lion head special logo with a pic of a lion on the badly mangled car #6 as it sits atop a truck used to haul it.

Is this a post crash picture of Carey's fatal crash ?



Paul

Yes, it is. I have a couple photos that are similar that show Carey's car on the hauler. Seller had this pic listed for $50 two weeks ago, with no sale. Then seller got the bright idea to relist it for a BUY IT NOW price of $95! Now, a week later, I see they have lowered the price to $75. Next week it will be back to $50... the week after that $40... a week after that, it will be $25.

FYI, all the racing photos they have for sale now, came from an old racing fans' photo album that contained 80+ racing pics and article clippings...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=true&rt=nc

That was the third time this photo album was listed on ebay. Twice before it was ended early (pulled by sellers to make a quick buck) and last time it finally went the distance and was won by the person selling the photos now. Unfortunately, the album is being broken up and sold individually. From the looks of the prices they are asking, they plan to retire by selling them. Yes, I know I sound bitter, that is because I am!!!

In all seriousness, I just wish a "collector" had been able to purchase them. As opposed to a "picker" who only sees potential dollar signs.

Here's a couple photos I have of Carey's wrecked car...

After the wreck...



On hauler...



The second photo, I bought off of the grandson of car owner Joe Marks. I'll sell it for $6,000.