I think jury on R. Brawn is still out, because I do consider their 2009 car as actually a vehicle to which Honda laid foundation, and almost a full year effort went into it, while everyone else was busy racing. Surely these are not normal conditions, and shall be hard to repeat in 2010.

Secondly, Ross, and lets be clear about it, I have noting against him, really didn't design a car, made a car, nor he race it. Thus, I take it he, under leadership of JT, was actually a team leader in-charge of a pit-wall where he did a good job, but really heros were I think people like Todt, Byrne, car designers, and Schumacher. (Of course also LDM whose support was essential).

Oh yes they did. Not ALL drivers are willing to do what Piquet Jr. did for the team.

And Michael is one JUST like him. He's been there, done that and will do it again..........................

They need a driver with NO MORALE, and NO ETHICS. ..... and then you have just the right person in MS.

Frans, over 6000 posts, and are you still suffering?

No, because the Benetton was designed for MS his driving style and Rory Byrne was allready gone to Ferrari so he couldn't redesign the Benetton of 1996. The Benetton team went into a slack because all the brains from the Benetton was bought by Ferrari.

The facts in 2009 is that the team was run back then by the same
crooked man found quilty of crashgate.

Blah blah..... "designed for MS his driving style"....<<< driving WITH traction control that is.......

the reason the cars (Benetton) weren't drivable in 1996 was because they left out the MS-option-13 to activate the traction control........ that's all.

You´re welcome! Yes, my imaginary dialogues explain that I´m an imaginary boy!

Wow, and it's only 46th post. I think that you and Frans shall be good friends.

It only shows how 'normal' people find the way MS stole his title in 1994, it also show's that many people DO know the REAL reason behind it.

It's not just "a conspiracy" it's more or less a "silently-spoken-about-fact". The only thing is, they could never make it official, at least not the 1st 25 years or so.......

The proof is perhaps at hand now. Schumacher never won championships without Brawn. Brawn has won championships without Schumacher.

You missed an option out - "Schumacher couldn't have done it without Brawn (and No1 status)"

Which is the one I vote for

If he didn't had this bizzare Number One status (by contract) he would have been blown away by his teammates pretty more often ...... it's all done for the "image"/ "imago".....

Well, i think that we gonna see it next year in Formula 1. It sounds mabey very crazy, but i think Schumacher is going to Brawn GP in 2010.

What grass are YOU smoking?

Or is that you, Frans, with another username?

Schumacher graciously "grants" Brawn and Button the titles: http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/79619

"I grant them the titles because if you only look at what they have been through you realise what an incredible story this is: just one year ago they did think everything is over. I am extremely happy for Ross who I know since such a long time now, he deserves this success."

So the game appears to be Brawn AND Schumacher again....who would have thought? The two never stayed separate from each other for long.....

Hahaha. Senna has been beating Ron Denns and Alain Prost with his Lotus. He beat Prost and Mclaren in the championship. That's how much he didn't Ron and Mclaren. It's more like Ron and Mclaren needed him.

When Senna made it clear he did not want to race that 1993 Mclaren and wanted to leave F1, Ron & Mclaren was so desperate to keep him that they offered a race by race contract and he can decide which races he wants to drive

Don't forget Rory Byrne who designed all those Benetton's and Ferrari cars.

Schumacher with Brawn. Wow... So much for Ferrari.

Sorry, but I have to call this statement out. There's just no support for it. While a lot of people rated Frentzen as equal to Schumacher early on, his record in Sportscars was nowhere near as good when they were both racing there. I see no evidence that Wendlinger was ahead of Schumacher, either.

Plus, sportscars and F1 cars are different animals. Even if Wendlinger and Frentzen were ahead of Schumacer in sportscars, it could have just been because their driving styles took to sportscars better, while Schumacher's was better for F1 cars.

I think this is a worthy hypothesis, as Schumacher was clearly the top F1 driver in his, yet has never won the Race of Champions.

Ross is the complete package, and Michael Knows this very well.....

....as substantiated by the fact that Michael has signed with Ross Brawn on December 22nd, 2009 (or according to insiders, on December 21st in the evening at Brackley).....

With hindsight we can be amazed how that formidable combination of Michael and Ross does not produce miracles anymore.

It was maybe rather counterproductive, to bring Michael with his divide and conquer tactics into the team.... would they have kept Barrichello alongside Rosberg it would have been maybe more harmonious and productive for the team as a whole.

Schumacher doesn´t have a unified team behind him anymore as in the days of Todt/Brawn/Byrne etc.
Rather, the Brawn team worked better when it had the harmony between teamplayers like Button and Barrichello.

Now with Schumacher being the intra-team troublemaker (not sharing data with the Rosberg side of the garage, apart from other things (odd number etc)) and not having a contractually or informally strong position in the team anymore, he may become even a burden to the team, despite all the PR acumen he brings with him.

I wonder what Ross Brawn thinks deep in his heart about this Michael, the one that Luca Montezemolo called "Michael´s twin brother"...

how do you know that schumacher is not sharing his data with rosberg???

It was posted on the internet, of course it is true.



Would this be the same Barrichello that was waiting until the last second to ask for changes to his car so that Button wouldn't have time to copy them?

Well, Johnny Bravo, haven´t seen you around these quarters for a long time, but voilá, here it is: "Who was better: Brawn or Schumacher"







So should we rename the thread: "Who is the culprit: Brawn or Schumacher?"

While strategy-wise Rosberg seems to be OK most of the time, it is exactly Ross´ darling Michael Schumacher who gets the wrong strategy, the wrong tyres, the wrong pit calls all the time.
What´s up, Ross?
What´s up, Michael?

Is it the evil evil Andrew Shovlin?
Do Mercedes want to showcase youth over age?

With regards to the original meaning of this thread, I am tempted to ask: "Who is worse: Brawn or Schumacher?"
Not wanting to take away from their records (which are immaculate) it still begs the question: how can it go so wrong in 2010?

So, who do YOU think has lost his marbles more? Ross or Michael?
And why is Rosberg doing comparatively well? Is Ross maybe concentrating on Michael´s side of the garage and Nico just masterminding his season with Jock Clear?