http://allenonf1.wordpress.com/2009/04/28/...of-crucial-day/

F1 can survive without Ferrari.

pretty sure it's an empty threat. Ferrari needs f1 as an advertising platform.

F1 can survive without any specific team.

Which loss would leave it most damaged and most reduce its following?

It would be hard to argue that team is not Ferrari.

Mika - Ferrari sells road cars to support its racing, not the other way around.

No, it's the other way around nowadays, they are part of FIAT's balance sheet of course.

Regards

Andy

I wouldn't let the Ferrari Shareholders hear you say that!!!

IIRC Ferrari make more money form merchandising than road car sales...

There`s a lot about F1 MWM doesn`t know ...

Significant damage for a while too, have a look at the sea of red in any grandstand/spectator hill.

I hardly think the returns from road car sales would finance the race teams lunches.

Enzo Ferrari and Ferrari have always maintained that it sells road cars to go racing and have maintained that stance for it's entire history.

Check your history before you diss others.

That is something from the dim and distance past and does not hold today, although I'm sure they still like to trade on that notion.

F1 can survive the loss of any team, that's been shown many times over the years with many great names going to the wall. What is a problem at the moment is the threat that multiple teams could fold. I'm sure all the manufacturer teams are taking long hard looks at their balance sheets and if the numbers don't stack up they will pull out. IMHO Renault are the most likely to leave first, and Ferrari the least likely.

And clearly some that you don't.

Ferrari's raison d'être is racing, (and, 'racing' does not simply mean F1....they have competed in many series). Selling road cars has almost always formed a key part of facilitating that activity. I have done enough reading on Ferrari and F1 to know that many authors and contributors more knowledgeable than either of us believe this is the case.

It will never be proveable either way, I believe. Can you imagine a day Ferrari sells road cars but doesn't race? Or a day they race but don't sell road cars? I don't believe either scenario will occur, so your conjecture is certainly no better, or more based on knowledge, than mine.

I can easily see them pulling out of racing if it simply becomes uneconomical; unlikely, however, and would be a sad day.

The dim and distant past is called history, pedigree, breeding and accrued status and is a large part of the reason anybody buys a Ferrari over other cars that can easily mechanically match them for a lot less money.

Which great names associated with great name road cars have we lost over the years?

Lotus.

...plus Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Maserati.....

Ford....

I said great names, not kit cars.

Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Maserati?

What great cars has Alfa made that you would get looked at driving around Monaco? or Lancia??

Massa have made some a long time ago and please note where they went after they pulled from GP racing (as it was called then).

In the past yes. but not any longer i don't think.

Umm exactly when did Ford run an F1 team?

I refer you to post 12.

What are you talking about???? The C8 is pure porn!!!!!!

F1 could survive without Ferrari but as with Lotus, Brabham and the rest it would be greatly greatly lessoned.

I think it would take the lose of Ferrari and McLaren and Williams and then I would stop watching

You clearly know NOTHING about cars....

Alfa do not currently, nor have they competed in F1 for a LONG time and by the way, Alfa still flogs it's cars from it's "GP heritage".

Talk about miss the point, your thread, i'll leave you to it.

Enzo is dead for 20 years.


Why does Ferrari in its current form go F1 racing? For fun?

Your absolutely right mate, I've been found out, by the way, who's engines are Lotus using this year (you never know they change so often).

peroa, see that jet flying overhead? Information directed at you takes the same flight path, bye

F1 without Ferrari is unthinkable. It'll never happen. The sort of thing that could bring down a government in Italy (not that thats saying much I grant you). And I think Fiat of all car manufacturers are fairly healthy at the moment.

Agree. No team is bigger than the sport. It would be a shame to see them go, but the racing will go on. But, I don't think they will go.

Ferrari were arguably in worse shape in a sporting competitive sense as well a fiscal sense during the last downturn in the teams fortunes circa 91-93. Whilst noting thier displeasure with the propsed budget caps, I would be surprised if they left because of it.

Mercedes...meh...i thought they were going to leave about 5 times in the 15 years they've been back. It always seems to be on the agenda.

Lancia Stratos would get you noticed, even in Monaco

Oh i'll order my Exige kit car today... oh that's right it's not a kit.
Have fun in your dreamworld...

AWESOME car

Ferrari, McLaren and Williams are the three surviving teams linking Formula One to its history. They carry the heritage that no Honda or Toyota, Red Bull or Force India could claim. Not even Brawn GP, as an independent team in the classic sense, can imagine having such a role in the future, although perhaps if they should play a significant role in races and championships over the next 10 years or so.

The Ferrari-Formula 1 relationship is much like a symbiont: Ferrari could exist without F1, and F1 could exist without Ferrari, but neither would be the same. And about the 'Ferrari sells road cars to go racing' bit: I'm absolutley convinced that Enzo thought this way, but I'm not so sure for the current crop in management, let alone shareholders. Ferrari is and will remain a commercial company aiming to make a profit. They're not a charity for fans to see their cars racing all over the world.

By the way, Ferrari is (probably) the only car manufacturer to have made a profit in Q1 2009.

F1 would simply die and fade away without Ferrari on the grid. At least 50% of all the race goers and the TV audiences would stop watching. It wouldn't be the pinnacle of racing anymore and that would be the death kneel.

I can understand that Ferrari are not interested in a series with a standard engine and a budget cap. That's not F1 anymore. That's Formula v1.10.

But equally, so were Lotus, Brabham and Tyrrell.

Very true, but I focussed on today's F1, since those teams (and others) have sadly disappeared already.

IIRC Rolls Royce did very well and had growth in Q1...

Indeed it can, but it wont be the same and a lot of people wont care about the sport either at all, or to a far smaller degree.

Put it this way, I wont spend my Sundays glued to a TV set at the expense of a nice summer day if Ferrari weren't around. I wouldn't go so far to say I'd never watch again. But there's no way I would blow a few grand going to Grands Prix each year. There's no way I'll be spending a good ten hours on a race weekend watching and otherwise following the sport (whether online or tv). And if Ferrari as by far the most supported, and iconic team in F1, left the sport, many people would be in the same boat as me.

The sport will go on. But it will be far poorer for it.

James Allen has melted his server with that one

Can anyone who's seen it give us a quick synopsis?

"Weltmotor" & budget caps a big, no, no for Ferrari.

I would rather be seen in an Aurelia B20 than in anything that has come out of Maranello for the last thirty years.

Merc might pull out because they lost 1 billion euro this year
Ferrari might pull out because they refuse to have a 30 mill budget and standard engine

I think your underestimating how fikkle f1 fans are!!!

Yes I agree it would not be terrible if EITHER team left... But I think if it was a close season (see bernie and max to engineer that) then they would soon be forgotten...

Thanks. No surprise Ferrari don't like the 30m ideas, it's just Max & Bernie selling off cheap what Ferrari, Mac & co have built up. FOTA need to clear off to their own series and leave Max & Bernie to it, but they seem to quite like being dominated...

I think that Ferrari sells car's and goes racing just to sell hats.

Have you not seen the Lancia Beta Montecarlo?

The Scorpion suffered from several different issues. Between the taller springs used to meet the US height requirements, a lack of caster, and bump steer.

The engine noise in the interior of the car was sometimes criticized; Road & Track listing noise as one of their biggest complaints about the car, with 'little joy listening to the wheeze of an emission equipment-stifled 4-banger'[3], and Motor calling the engine noise a 'raucous cacophony'[4].

Harsh shifting is common and increases as the bushings wear (a common trait in mid-engined cars). The rear crossmember is a design flaw; the metal used was too thin and is susceptible to corrosion and eventual failure, although stronger replacement crossmembers are available from after market companies.

The S1 Montecarlos and Scorpions suffered from overly boosted brakes, which caused the fronts to lock up easily in the wet. These were often criticised in reviews; for example Road & Track complained of 'severe front locking and 37% fade'[3] and Motor that they found 'it disconcertingly easy to lock up the front wheels when approaching corners'[4].

As a result production was suspended in 1978 while the braking problems were resolved by some engineering changes including removing the brake servo. The S2 Montecarlo returned to the market in 1980 and introduced Marelli electronic ignition, which improved torque and the 0-60 speed (from 10 secs to 8.6).

Rust is an issue for the Scorpion and Montecarlo. Unless kept in a dry environment active prevention is required to fend off rust. The firewall and wheel wells are common locations for rust. Rusted floor pans are a major cause of early Scorpion/Montecarlo demise.

Any car with the handling and rust problems solved, should be worth considerably more than a stock car. The exception to this is one in showroom stock condition, with very few miles (it is common to find one with < 75,000 miles (120,700 km). There is an active Scorpion and Montecarlo community

Ferrari Dino engine and tranny.

The car uses a modified Maserati platform and powertrain (Maserati 4200, GranTurismo) and features a Ferrari/Maserati derived 90 degree cross-plane[7] dry-sump lubricated 4.7-litre V8 assembled by Ferrari.[1] The top engine performance figures may be summarized as a maximum power of 331 kilowatts (450 PS) at 7000 revolutions per minute, a peak torque of 480 newton metres (354 lbf·ft) at 4750 rpm (80% at 2500 rpm) with an engine redline of 7500 rpm and rev limiter of 7600 rpm.[8] The V8 engine has variable timing in intake valves and compression ratio of 11.3.[9]

The six–speed transaxle gearbox has computerized gear selection by means of levers behind the steering wheel and may be used in Manual-Normal; Manual-Sport; Automatic-Normal; Automatic-Sport and Ice modes. The gearbox can shift in 175 milliseconds when using Sport mode.[10] The 8C also has a limited slip differential

Ferrari is the only team since the 1950's to build a complete F 1 car including engine and sports cars as well.