The AUTOSPORT Bulletin Board > Benito Mussolini's 1942 Fiat Bertone

RStock

May 6 2009, 21:08

Forgive me if this has been covered here before , but the search function was of no use on this .

While plunking around the net today , I found this , from a Queens , NY news site .

QUOTE

If you look really carefully next time you’re driving around Maspeth, you might just see a piece of automotive history.

Frank Ferrante, the CEO of Ferran Enterprises, a planning and construction company in Maspeth, owns the world’s only 1942 Fiat Bertone sports car designed specifically for Italian dictator Benito Mussolini.

According to historians, Mussolini loved the Italian sports car, and drove it around the countryside with his mistress constantly. The Ferrari company built the car specifically for Mussolini, who gave it to his mistress, Clara Patacci. After the dictator’s death in 1945, the silver car was impounded to be auctioned off at a later date. That later date was 1969, and strangely enough, the car was auctioned off to Glen Oaks resident Vincent Sorgie.

Local newspapers coverage aroused the interest of Ferrante, a lover of classic cars. He finally bought the gem for a mere $2,500 in 1991. He proceeded to restore it, and after years of searching for parts, he will unveil the final product in August. The Fiat is currently worth an estimated $650,000.

Ferrari bulding Mussolini a 1942 FIAT Bertone ? Sounds like a bogus story to me , but perhaps I'm wrong . Anyone know more ?

RStock

May 7 2009, 16:21

So . No one else knows anything about this ? Is it a bogus story ? I would think the car was well known if the story is true . I don't see "Ferrari" building the car in 1942 . For one thing , there was no Ferrari in 1942 , and I thought Enzo was in Rome at that time , and his shop was buzy building war implements . I suppose he could have had some design input though . Or did it as a one-off as a favor to Mussolini . No one knows nothing about this ?

JB Miltonian

May 7 2009, 16:45

I found your question interesting and looked through some material here at home. I didn't find anything relating to the car as described. The "Car Styling #19" book on Bertone says:

"In the war years, the company suffered great damage and lost most of its files."

"Unfortunately, most of the photographs of his creations of this epoch (up to WWII) were destroyed as a result of disaster and the photographs printed here are part of the few remaining records of his past activities."

There is almost nothing shown from the Thirties, and nothing at all between 1938-1945.

RStock

May 7 2009, 20:45

QUOTE (JB Miltonian @ May 8 2009, 01:45)

I found your question interesting and looked through some material here at home. I didn't find anything relating to the car as described. The "Car Styling #19" book on Bertone says:

"In the war years, the company suffered great damage and lost most of its files."

"Unfortunately, most of the photographs of his creations of this epoch (up to WWII) were destroyed as a result of disaster and the photographs printed here are part of the few remaining records of his past activities."

There is almost nothing shown from the Thirties, and nothing at all between 1938-1945.

Thanks for the reply JB . I can't find anything further about this car , if it is what it is said to be . I would think it would be better known if so . The fact the current owner only gave $ 2500.00 for it sounds odd . And it seems someone would at least remember one being auctioned off in 1969 . I find the story highly dubious , but I don't know enough to make a judgment on it .

I know Mussolini was fond of automobiles , though I thought he was more of an Alfa-Romeo man . And Nuccio Bertone said he did design some one-off's during this period , but as you noted , all plans were destroyed in a fire .

I also saw where the Bertone workshop was active during the war period of the 1940's , and have seen some models produced during that time . So I suppose it's possible the car was built . But the part about Ferrari building the car is very suspect , to say the least .

mdkcowboy

Jun 8 2009, 23:15

I wanted to set the record straight. I not only knew Mr Vincent Sorgie,but played in Mussolini's car. I was friends with Mr Sorgie's son. His son and I played in that car in his garage which was there for many years. When Mr. Sorgie wasn't home, his son and I would play in the car and it was sweet. What I can remember, the car didn't run and when Mr Sorgie passed away in the 80's, his son sold it for 2500.00. It needed restoration and again didn't run. I grew up in Glen Oaks,NY and that car indeed was real. I was a young teen then and I'm 52 now.

Michael Klein

JB Miltonian

Jun 9 2009, 01:36

Thank you for the feedback, Michael. Can you remember any details of the car? Coupe? Sedan? Cabriolet? Anything that might help to identify it?

RStock

Jun 9 2009, 03:50

QUOTE (mdkcowboy @ Jun 9 2009, 08:15)

I wanted to set the record straight. I not only knew Mr Vincent Sorgie,but played in Mussolini's car. I was friends with Mr Sorgie's son. His son and I played in that car in his garage which was there for many years. When Mr. Sorgie wasn't home, his son and I would play in the car and it was sweet. What I can remember, the car didn't run and when Mr Sorgie passed away in the 80's, his son sold it for 2500.00. It needed restoration and again didn't run. I grew up in Glen Oaks,NY and that car indeed was real. I was a young teen then and I'm 52 now.

Michael Klein

Thank you so much for the reply Micheal . I don't doubt that the car exists , mind you , I'm just a little suspect of it's "provenance" .

Have you ever heard anything about Enzo Ferrari having a hand in the design ? I suppose it's possible he did , but I wonder why more isn't known about it if so . I'm not sure how much of an auto production facility Enzo had at that time . Auto Avio Costruzione was still in existence even after the war , but I'm not sure if the factory was active during the war , except for the grinding machines and such . What he did have wasn't bombed out until 1945 , so I guess the car could have been built there . It wouldn't have taken much room or many men for one car .

And if Enzo's company did do the design work , surely a Carrozzeria would have done the body work . It seems there would be some sort of record there , though as noted in an earlier post about Bertone , many records of those sorts were lost during the war . Anyone else know anything about this , while it's been brought back up ?

mdkcowboy

Jun 9 2009, 12:00

QUOTE (JB Miltonian @ Jun 8 2009, 18:36)

Thank you for the feedback, Michael. Can you remember any details of the car? Coupe? Sedan? Cabriolet? Anything that might help to identify it?

JB, I remember a little as far as it being silver, and a convertible. It had only 2 seats, but one back seat might have been a pulled down. I'm unsure about the back seat. It wasn't a big car. Most likely a small coupe convertible. We pushed it out of the garage a few times, but never was able to start it. I myself wasn't sure if it was Mussolini's car, I later found out when Mr Sorgie passed away, that it indeed was. My old friend needed to liquidate his fathers estate and sold the car for 2500.00 in 1991. I did read as I'm sure you all did, how the new owner was restoring it, and it was now a small fortune. I'm sure my friend was kickimg himself, but I lost touch with him through the years. Wish I had more info on the car, but again, I was about 12 till 23 at the time and didn't know much about the car other than what i said. Again, it was sweet. Actually,my friend was my best man at my wedding. To bad we lost touch. Nice to talk to you gentlemen.

Michael

JB Miltonian

Jun 9 2009, 19:07

This is the closest I could find in my books here at home, it's described as a 1938 Fiat 1500 by Bertone. This does look like something Mussolini would own, and to me, it seems more likely that a car like this would have been built pre-war, rather than in the middle of the war. But it may be substantially larger than the car in question.

Arjan de Roos

Aug 27 2009, 07:44

Never heard about it, never read about it. Most likely a fast concluding writer of this story with regard to Ferrari's involvement in it. The AAC 815 was mainly consisting of Fiat parts and may have mislead the writer.
It is also unlikely as Ferrari was involved in making grinding machinery in his works at that time. Not a company ready to produce a one-off car.
More likely the car was made at Fiat.

dretceterini

Aug 27 2009, 16:52

The car that is supposed to be ex-Musolini is a Fiat 1500 Bertone coupe, from 1942. Interesting car, but I doubt if Mussolini had anything to do with it.

RStock

Aug 27 2009, 19:20

QUOTE (Arjan de Roos @ Aug 27 2009, 16:44)

Never heard about it, never read about it. Most likely a fast concluding writer of this story with regard to Ferrari's involvement in it. The AAC 815 was mainly consisting of Fiat parts and may have mislead the writer.
It is also unlikely as Ferrari was involved in making grinding machinery in his works at that time. Not a company ready to produce a one-off car.
More likely the car was made at Fiat.

QUOTE ("dretceterini")

The car that is supposed to be ex-Musolini is a Fiat 1500 Bertone coupe, from 1942. Interesting car, but I doubt if Mussolini had anything to do with it.

The story of Enzo's involvement is the part I find difficult . I would think if he had any part in it , it would have been merely to recommend someone to do the work , as has been noted , his factory wasn't exactly in shape to do it .

I suppose it's possible that Mussolini did indeed own the car . The original story says it was impounded after the war and auctioned off in 1969 . But if that's the case , it must have been done by the Italian government , and there should be paperwork showing who originally owned the car . Or something telling where the car originally came from when impounded .

I would think some of the folks here would remember hearing about the original auction , or at least something about the car . I'm still puzzled by this one .

dretceterini

Aug 27 2009, 23:28

Here is a link to a photo of the Fiat 1500 Bertone coupe. I would seriously doubt any connection to Ferrari, although Mussolini might have owned it..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2675/386357...4667e3c44_o.jpg

D-Type

Aug 30 2009, 21:47

I don't wish to appear cynical, but which 'provenance' would increase the car's value more today? Mussolini or Ferrari?

RStock

Aug 31 2009, 01:39

QUOTE (dretceterini @ Aug 28 2009, 09:28)

Here is a link to a photo of the Fiat 1500 Bertone coupe. I would seriously doubt any connection to Ferrari, although Mussolini might have owned it..

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2675/386357...4667e3c44_o.jpg

Is this photo the car in question , or just a Fiat Bertone photo ?

mdkcowboy

Dec 28 2009, 05:08

QUOTE (REDARMYSOJA @ Aug 30 2009, 18:39)

Is this photo the car in question , or just a Fiat Bertone photo ?

Hey, I was the guy that left the post about playing in Mussolini's car back in July 2009 car when I was a teen with my frieind. My friends dad, Vincent Sorgie claimed it was Mussolini's car. Ever since that post, I havent been back on here till today and saw your post with the Pic of the car. That did not look like the car i played in with Mr Sorgie's son. It was a convertible, a 2 seater silver in color. It might and i am 52 now, i was 12-23 when i saw and played in the car, but unsure if it had a back seat and if it did, might have been a pull down seat. Small car. But again, that pic doesnt look like the car. Sorry. And again, Mr Sorgies son sold the car for 2500 when his dad past away. It needed total restoration. Today, i heard its worth in the 650000-750000 range after the new owner restored it.. My email is mdkcowboy@hotmail.com if you should have any questions.

Michael Klein