Well I can guarentee you I'm no fanboy. I've owned both consoles and played online on both. I don't need to provide any stats because I have first hand experience. If you don't believe me I really ain't going to loose any sleep. I'm not trying to persude you I'm just giving you my opinion on the experiece I have had. You asked the reason why most PS3 users don't use headsets. I believe the main reason (although it may not still be the case) is that you don't get a headset with the console.

As for the small reasons, I'm not going to list them, your just gonna have to trust me but it's mainly down to how user friendly the service is and friend interaction options.

That project natal is pretty awesome really.
When it's out, I'll get my first console

This is exactly why these discussions never go anywhere. Because neither side can ever bring clear, concise, tangible examples to the table. As somebody who uses both platforms Turn 1, I was hoping you'd indulge us with a more detailed comparison. From what I've read elsewhere, aside from having cross game chat (the value of which, I fail to fully grasp) and an arguably nicer interface (something subjective at any rate), I've yet to hear anything better about XBox Live compared to the PSN in a reasonably formed argument.

I've heard arguments that X/Y has:
- too many adolescents playing.
- too much lag during on-line game play
- too many service interruptions
But I've heard these arguments both ways with little to back it up. And the 'sense of community' is also largely based on the interactions with your friend and contact base and therefore somewhat subjective.

From everything I've read, there's really very little to choose from between Xbox Live and PSN.

Do you really need the clutch peddle? What are the extra buttons above the shifter for?

It's largely dependent upon the game you're playing. GT5P & NFS:Shift are two games that allow you to use the H-Pattern shifter with the clutch. Many games allow the H-Pattern shifter but the clutch has no function. If you try to shift without using the clutch in GT5 Prologue, it will fail to engage the gear. And if you shift without using the clutch in Shift, it will engage the gear after a bit of hesitation but you will eventually destroy your transmission if you keep doing it. And if you spin and come to a rest or lock up the tires under braking and don't engage the clutch in either game, you can stall the engine. So yes, it does add a unique sense of realism to games that choose to take advantage of it. I wish more developers did.

The buttons are also largely dependent on the game. Some games, such as Dirt 2, allow you to individually program the buttons (both wheel and shifter mount) for whatever function you prefer. Other games generally have 2-3 sets of pre-programmed maps you can choose from. Others, unfortunately, don't allow you to change at all.

What I normally prefer is to have "look back" as the right button on the wheel. And 'switch view' as the left button. But some games, such as Shift, force you to use one of the Shifter buttons to look back. Most games attempt in some way to map all of the pad buttons onto the G25/G27 shifter mount so that you can effectively play without ever having to pick up the controller.

The G25 used to have only 2 buttons on the wheel, so the buttons above the shifter were certainly needed. Even now with the G27, it's handy to use them for the LCD panel (in rFactor for example).

jaisli,
Thanks for the info.

As a games journalist, I can tell you that there is no objective to be found that cannot be turned on its head. Both consoles do different things well. On the technical side, many people will say the PS3 is better. They'd be right to an extent, but the 360 is apparently easier to work with for developers. Valve (the makers of Half-Life, Portal, Left 4 Dead, Counter-Strike, Team Fortress...) don't make games on the PS3 anymore because they, basically, are not happy with the way their efforts are turning out; while the Xbox 360 is handling their games fine.

On the online and software side, many people will say the Xbox 360 is better. They'd be right to an extent, but the PS3's online service is free and the Playstation's software catalogue has caught up with the Xbox 360. It's not quite as good just yet, but it's getting there...although I do think that the Xbox 360's community-driven services and accessibility trumps the PS3 on the presentation side.

Between the two of them, I'd say the Xbox 360 has the edge by the smallest of margins. That margin was very wide a couple of years ago, so it's quite telling.

As for what console for racing games...Xbox 360. Forza and Project Gotham Racing beat an absent and ageing Gran Turismo series. And with F1 2010 also on Xbox 360, it makes the choice easier. Although you are then missing out on the superb Wipeout HD on PS3 plus Motorstorm. So I'd say Xbox 360 for sim, PS3 for arcade.

But you do have the Blu-Ray on PS3 as well as all the stuff that techy people will love; and it's more future-proof than the Xbox 360. But to contend that, Project Natal (your body as the controller) on the 360 looks interesting. Move on the PS3 also looks interesting, but it's basically just refining the Wiimote idea.

The two have their differences. The PS3 is for people who love their tech and gadgets. The Xbox 360 is the gaming experience. Both can do the opposite, but not as well as each other. If you can, buy both and enjoy. If not, then just do some browsing and look at the systems and I'm sure you can decide the right one for you. If you want to feel immersed in a world full of gamers while getting that social 'vibe', Xbox Live. If you want to be in awe of what cross-compatability can be achieved with a games console, PS3.

(Sorry if I seem to be slightly Xbox 360 bias, it's just that thread has hallmarks of the usual European-centric PS3 bias and I figured the 360 needed some defence)

If racing games are the deciding factor on which console to get, then here's what each offers. I'll excluse the Wii because anyone who wants a good racing experience, and not Mario Kart, would never seriously consider that console.

Playstation 3 Only:
Fatal Inertia
Fatal Inertia EX
Formula One Championship Edition
Gran Turismo 5
GTI Club Plus
MotorStorm
MotorStorm: Pacific Rift
PixelJunk Racers
Ridge Racer 7
Wipeout HD
Wipeout HD Fury

XBox 360 Only:
Crash Time
Crash Time: Autobahn Pursuit
Dash of Destruction
Forza Motorsport 2
Forza Motorsport 3
Import Tuner Challenge
OutRun Online Arcade
Pimp My Ride
Pocketbike Racer
Project Gotham Racing 3
Project Gotham Racing 4
Ridge Racer 6
Test Drive Unlimited
Yaris

Multi Platform:
Baja: Edge of Control
Blur
Burnout 6
Burnout Paradise
DiRT
DiRT 2
Drift Nights: Juiced 2
F1 2010
Fatal Inertia
Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli
GRID
Midnight Club: Los Angeles
MotoGP 07
MotoGP 08
MotoGP 09/10
MX vs. ATV Reflex
MX vs. ATV Untamed
NASCAR 08
NASCAR 09
Need for Speed Carbon
Need for Speed Most Wanted
Need for Speed ProStreet
Need for Speed Shift
Need for Speed Undercover
Pure
SBK Superbike World Championship
Sega Rally Revo
Ski Doo: Snowmobile Challenge
Superstars V8 Racing
Test Drive Unlimited 2

Just as a point, Ferrari Challenge was multi-platform if you consider the PS2, Wii & Nintendo DS as multi-platform. Otherwise you can pretty much consider it a PS3 exclusive. And you forgot Supercar Challenge for the PS3. I can't believe how often this game is overlooked. But either way, neither are available for the Xbox360.

Outrun Online Arcade is available for PS3 too as cheap game.

I would recommend the PS3! The XBox 360 is also a great console, but after one year you have it, it can be that the 360 is going to be broken. A lot of 360 consols have this problem it's called "The Ring of Death" ROD-Problem. It's an manufactory problem. Unfortunately I don't know what exactly is going to be broken but on the ON/OFF Button are normally green lights and when this problem occurs you will see 3 red lights around the ON/OFF Button, that's why it's called Ring of Death. I just know it because my boyfriend has got the same problem with it. It is possible to repair this error, but it can be that it will occur again after some time.
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My favourite Site www.universal.at

Xbox for sure.

I have both and i get utterly bored of the ps3, the poor online, much smaller community, poor controller (child sized), endless massive updates, installing games that takes ages, etc.

im completely unbiased due to having both, and a lot of people i know have brought xbox's after waiting to buy the ps3 when it came out. one mate of mine had an xbox, sold it for ps3 and then sold it quickly to get his xbox back.

plus the 360 is a lot better for racing games and overall a much better games console, the ps3 is filled with too much media and tech that gets boring after 30 seconds; theres no fun in my opinion.

@Silke, the Ring of death doesnt exist with the new consoles anymore.

it's just generally poor.

here are some reasons..

- Big updates to play online take me minutes, on xbox they take 20-30 seconds
- Most people don't have headsets (and the blu-tooth being easy thing is not easier than getting a headset free that requires no charge)
- The communication between people on your friends lists are poor, and theres very very limited options
- More glitching and hacks
- No gamerscore
- No ease-of-use
- No msn/facebook/twitter built in
- No way to give players feedback or way of reporting them
- Trophies are a blatent copy of the achievements but done in a poor way with only 4 levels of achievement, whereas the xbox has points
- Online interface for downloading extra content is incredibly slow and the menu's are limited
- On the xbox the online menu's are full of life, theres so much more content and the news feeds are updated all the time
- The ps3 just gets dull and boring in my opinion
- Home is just terrible and a throw away experience
- Indie and Arcade games on the xbox
- Overall the PSN seems like the original xbox's online, very basic and doesnt stretch any boundaries and they've had enough time to study xbox live and see how it should be done so there's no excuse

If i had my consoles taken away and had to choose between paying £300 for an Xbox and £100 for a PS3, i'd choose the 360 everytime, make a sensible choice!

Thanks! I'm glad somebody finally took the time to put together a detailed list. When it comes down to it, I'm not your 'typical' gamer. I have 7 racing/driving games and 2 that have nothing to do with driving. I basically don't use the PS3 for anything other than racing games and for watching Blu-Ray movies. As such, many of these positives don't really apply to me as they may to other people. My comments below.


- Big updates to play online take me minutes, on xbox they take 20-30 seconds (Isn't this more dependent on your connection speed. Besides, I don't know what 'big' updates you're talking about. Generally when you buy a game there may be a patch for it which can take a few minutes to download and then it's done. There hasn't been a system update for the PS3 in months as I'm sure you well know. And they usually take a few minutes to download and install. But is this really such a big deal once every few months? It would be another story if it happened every week.)

- Most people don't have headsets (and the blu-tooth being easy thing is not easier than getting a headset free that requires no charge) (Again, this may be your experience. And in the games you play I'm sure you're correct. In the racing games I play that support headsets, the majority are using them. But there are negatives to this too. When I'm out there to race, it makes me crazy when some people are chatting away the whole time. I wish they'd save it for the lobby)

- The communication between people on your friends lists are poor, and theres very very limited options (I can't compare. There is no cross game chat on the PS3. And some games do NOT support Chat. Others support chat but the quality is terrible. So this is probably a valid point if that's how you're used to using this function. But there is a system wide text chat which is useful for racing games that don't support voice chat and it helps cut down on unnecessary chatter). After the race and back in the lobby, we often hold discussions or from time to time, I'll meet up with some of my racing buddies in a 'chat' lobby to catch up on things.

- More glitching and hacks (I have no idea what this means)

- No gamerscore (Again, playing only racing games, the only thing that matters to me are lap times and race results. People on the PS3 talk about Trophies. Some are obsessed with them, but I could care less. I couldn't even tell you what trophies I have)

- No ease-of-use (I can't compare but if you say so I'll take your word for it. That said, I don't think the XMB is 'difficult')

- No msn/facebook/twitter built in. (I don't use any of these but I remember reading that your trophies automatically show up on Facebook. I guess for some people this matters. If anybody would send me a facebook invitation I'd kick them off my friend list. Does that make me an antisocial idiot?)

- No way to give players feedback or way of reporting them (You have a list of 'players met' and you can send them a message and settle it person to person. If there is a serious abuse case it can be reported to Sony and I know of at least one case where PSN messages were submitted as proof and that person had their PSN id blocked. That said, do I really want a 'feedback' list over my head? I'm not sure. I guess there are pros and cons but I don't know enough about the 360s system to comment.

- Trophies are a blatent copy of the achievements but done in a poor way with only 4 levels of achievement, whereas the xbox has points (I think I've made my feelings on this clear. You can keep the stupid trophies.

- Online interface for downloading extra content is incredibly slow and the menu's are limited. If you say so. I can't compare so I'll take your word for it. I'm lucky enough to have an incredibly fast Internet connection. I don't remember ever sitting there and thinking to myself, "This is taking forever". I downloaded the 258MB update for NFS:Shift in less than 4 minutes.

- On the xbox the online menu's are full of life, theres so much more content and the news feeds are updated all the time. (I'll take your word for it. The PS3 has that 'news ticker' but I turned it off because I thought it was just annoying. I rarely search for online content. If there's something specific I'm looking for, I go to the store, find it and download it. I can remember just 'browsing' only twice ever. Maybe if I had a 360 I'd do it more often? I'm not sure.

- The ps3 just gets dull and boring in my opinion (It's your opinion but I think this is a silly comment. How can 'THE PS3' in and of itself be boring. It's a piece of hardware. What is this even supposed to mean. It's a median for playing games. And these generation of consoles are evolving into entertainment centers. The PS3 has a good photo app and jukebox software but I have my home PC for that so I rarely use it.

- Home is just terrible and a throw away experience (I've never used it once and have absolutlely no use for it. In fact, I can't think of a bigger waste of time. When I turn on the PS3 it's because I want to do some racing. I'm part owner of my own business. I work 12 hours a day on average. And I have a family. Every minute I'm on the PS3 and NOT racing is just a waste of time. I could care less about using it as a social networking device. I've never understood the concept of 'home' and thought it's either because I'm showing my age or I just don't 'get it' or I lack the personal time. Probably all three.

- Indie and Arcade games on the xbox (I guess--I'll take your word for it )

- Overall the PSN seems like the original xbox's online, very basic and doesnt stretch any boundaries and they've had enough time to study xbox live and see how it should be done so there's no excuse (Again, I'll take your word for it--fair enough).

If i had my consoles taken away and had to choose between paying £300 for an Xbox and £100 for a PS3, i'd choose the 360 everytime, make a sensible choice! I guess my needs are different as most of the positives you cite don't seem to be that important to me. But I appreciate that you took the time to lay this out on the table as I'm sure others will find this very useful.

Get both 360 and PS3.

ultimately this is a racing forum, 360 has forza so you should get a 360

Plus, you get to watch HD-DVDs, the format of the future!

Game quality on both systems sucks.