The Ruggia pics reminded me of this guy...although the Yamaha seems to be less inducive of elbow rubbing this year.

http://www.photoshelter.com/c/momurrayphot...0000NKuCJ285dR4

And Yates is not bad either

http://www.photoshelter.com/c/momurrayphot...0000HYZ_7d5yXJY

Mo

The photo of Kim is truly one of the best I have ever seen. I would love to have a copy of it for my book. Is that at all possible?
I have been writing today about the 1972 French Grand Prix at Charade. Kim had to push the Konig all the way to the first corner before it would fire up. He was dead last at the end of the first lap but managed to get back to 5th place in spite of having his clutch cable break on the third lap.
Anyone who has riden a Norton (same box) knows you can manage without a clutch if you are very cafeful but racing is obviously a different proposition. Apparently he was sliding all over the place but he hung on.
From the photos I have seen of Charade it must have been a fantastic circuit if dangerous and scary. I understand some of it is still there and it would be great to v isit some time.
Regarding the documentary about Kim I have to record that it was my idea and my project. Having secured funsing for it however the production company I approached to help make the film usurped it. I was not happy with many aspects of the final product which I still regard as fashionably bleak to the point Kim's achievements were subsumed. I really disliked the way kim's widow janeen was portrayed as a tragic looser. In fact she loved telling Kim's story and the only way the film makers secured the dreadful meltdown that they did was by going back again and again when she was close to death with cancer.
I recently settled a High court action that I bought against the production company and hope to make my own version of the documentary in the near future.

By the way does anyone know who is behind Kim or where this might be?

Eric Offenstadt I assume

Unfortunately this is a postcard that I picked up in the early '80s. It has no information on the back at all. i will send you it if you like.

I,ll go with you on that one,Renn.
HW

For the bonus point does anyone know where? I think it has to be 1973.

The offer to send the post card is very generous. However could you possible email a high res scan?
I have lots of great shots but this one is so clean and looks like it could have been taken by a top shooter at a classic meeting yesterday. I will certainly use it in the book if I can. Is there any info on the photographer on the back?
I was going through interview notes with Rolf Steinhausen about Clermont Ferrand in 72 and he complained that drivers Vervroegan and Milton repeatedly and deliberately ran into him with their outfits, leaving streaks of their paint on him. He also recalled that they were both laughing their heads off as they did it. I guess it was a traditonal sidecar welcome to a newby. Mind you Rolf beat them.
I had a mate Will Williamson over in the UK a while ago racing his T110 outfit "El Tigre". Did anyone see him? He's a legend over here with the crowds that attend the Cemetary Circuit on New Years Day at Wanganui. Very full noise and sideways all the time. I did a few demo laps with him at Manfield a few years ago and survived it with enhanced respect for the three wheeler's art.
I reckon sidecars rule.



going

It is indeed in 1973 , since Offenstadt is aboard his home-made twin ( a 750 Kawasaki with one cylinder sawed off...) that he only used in 1973

He carried #16 in Imatra ( see http://www.bike70.com/e_offenstadt/Offenstadt%201973.html ) but the postcard pic does not at all look like Imatra - rather more like Anderstorp in Sweden, the race before ?

Germany GP at Hockenheim 13 may 1973, they both didn't finish the race (engine trouble ?)

For the record I now understand that Kim's crash at Hengelo happened because a crack in his fuel tank opened up and poured petroil all over his rear wheel. How the crack happened I have yet to find out.

Does anyone know why Offenstadt would be allowed to carry the same race number for the season - as he appears to have done? Not important but I am curious

He did not, actually....in Assen he was #15 for instance .

From memory I think the "rules" at the times were that the first so many ( 10 ? ) in the previous year's championship would generally be granted numbers from 1 to 10 for the whole sesason. Then, there were "priority" lists drawn by the national federations which meant that the nominated riders would ( in principle) be garanteed a start, so there was maybe a more or less fixed number order for those "priority" riders....the others would just have to come and begg for a start. Anyway, I seem to remember that the numbers were in fact very variable from one race to the next in those times...

Another picture of Ruggia:

Greetings all.
Thanks for the guff on Eric Offenstadt. That machine of his really was very interesting and he seems to be a real character.
Right now I am wrtiting about the 72 German GP and have been most interested to learn about the truly attrocious conditions the riders had to put up with. Ice forming on fairings, hemets and front forks and half an inch of snow on parts of the circuit during practice give an indication of the weather. Kieth Turner told me that during practice he had to proceed with both feet down on some sections. It seems crazy that riders were sent out in such conditons when cars would have stayed in their garages but that was the way it was.
There was an International race during the same weekend at the Ring and I wonder if anyone knows anything about it. Kim Newcombe came second after battling Dave Simmonds who later complained he'd been poisoned by a bad coke he'd drunk. I think he ended up forth with Ernst Hiller pressing him hard. They were followed by Findlay and Nelson.
I wondered how the grid was selected. I think Nieto was in it - and fell off breaking his nose. So what, I wonder could he have been riding? A 125?
Does anyone know who won and at what point in the programme the race was run? Who came 3rd?
In the sidecar race it was reported that a Koenig outfit led the first lap before getting into difficulties. I'd also love any info I could get on that. I'd also like to know at what point that race was run in the programme.
I wish I still had access to The British Library's magazine collection but I'm on the wrong side of the world. Ah well. We are heading into summer and the best touring roads in the world beckon aong with some wonderful classic race events. So there are compensations.
Tim Hanna

Hi Tim
Will send you scan of postcard but don't know where to send to ?
Don't know if it's any use but check out French website
www.bike70.com and go to the page on Rungis it shows Kim
in one of the videos and also shows scans of the programme
Gary

Hi Tim, I attended the GP at the Nürburgring in '72 and I can assure you that the weather wasn't half as bad as you describe it. It was quite chilly but sunny. "Ice forming on fairings, hemets and front forks and half an inch of snow on parts of the circuit during practice " sounds a bit like sailor's yarn. If you can get hold of a copy of the "Grand Prix Guide '74" (Sil Sports), you'll see a couple of pics which reflect the overall conditions quite well. The GP in '70 was run under worse conditions, the pics of Ago in a Barbour jacket proof it. But nevertheles, it was road racing, not ice speedway.
There were no additional races to the GP at that weekend. The placings you mention are more or less the GP results with Ago, Pagani and Bo Granath finishing 1st,2nd and 6th.
The quick starting König must be the one of Rolf Steinhausen. According to Wolfgang Kalauch, Rolf had a tendency in the early days to drop out because he didn't want a displacement check ... well a rumour you know
Cheers

Hi,
Thanks for the response. I thought the sidecar described had to be Rolf. I don't know about Rolf's drop out tendencies. He had a 500 at that stage and a 680 (for the TT) but I get the impression he was pretty keen on winning from the get go.
The complaints about ice etc at the GP were made by a delegation at the track consisting of Rod Gould and Dieter Braun. However this was on the Friday when I understand practice was stopped for a period. There was also a report of steam thick enough to consititute a problem when the track dried out - presumably on Saturday for qualifying. I only mention all this as I would be interested to know how this might or might not dovetail with your experience. Obviously the GPs were run on a good track - presumably on the Sunday.
The report of the "International Race" came from MCN May 3 1972. The German GP was April 30 which was why I presumed it must have been at the same meeting. However I accept you are right - there was no International event at the GP. Which makes sense.
My notes (taken courtesy of the British Museum at ...Colinshaw?) may be the problem and I don't have a library of MCNs to go back to - more's the pity. However for what it is worth the story states that Kim Newcombe was second in an International race that he led at the start. It then describes the race I described in my previous post.
A konig sidecar is reported to have led a race from the start but got into trouble by the end of the lap. Dave Simmonds is reported becoming ill during the race and 4th in it followed by Hiller, Findlay and Nelson. Nieto is said to have broken his nose - so obviously all classes were represented.
There was an International at Hockenhiem that might have happened around about then. I have not found a comprehensive record of the Internationals and info on particular events can be a little hard to find.
Anyway thanks for the info. I'd be interested to hear any other memories you may care to share of the GP.
Tim

Tim, there usually was an international CAR race , either sports or single-seater, that was held at the annual "Eifelrennen" alongside the bikes, even when they had World Championship/German GP status as was the case in 72 and 74 . That was one of the (many) reasons of the '74 riders strike, that they didn't appreciate running at the same meeting as cars, which caused many timing and safety problems ( like straw bales in front of the guard rails are good for bikes, not for cars...) . So that was maybe the "international" that you wrote down when you took your notes ? Anyway, it seems quite clear , from Rennmax who was there or from reliable sites like Vincent Glon's Racing Memo, that there was no other class than the classical GP ones . What it does say on Vincent's site is that Angel Nieto did not take part in the 125cc race due to injuring his nose during the previous 250 race . So it does mean that it was the right meeting . Ago indeed won the 500cc race, from Pagani, Newcombe, Simmonds, Hiller, Granath, Findlay and Nelson.

The was an international run in May at Hockenheim called the Mai Pokal Rennen in the "in between "years when the GP wasn't there . In 1972 it was run on the 14th of May, so later than the MCN you read , as you guessed.

I´m not sure what year the international Deutscher TT was inaugurated, but it was held at the Nurburgring every second year, when Hockenheim was hosting the GP, (odd year numbers). A short circuit consisting of the track around the pit area was used, with a lap time of approximately one minute. The event was discontinued after a mass pile up in 1981 which resulted in two fatalities.
Don´t know if this bit of useless trivia is in any way related to the discussion, but I thought I´d mention it anyway.

The 50cc and 350cc race in that order on Saturday.

The 250cc, 125cc, 500cc and sidecars on Sunday.

Angel Nieto crashed his Derbi the first lap from the 250 race and wasn't allowed by the doctor to start in the 125, he was sneaky trying to go at the start where the officials needed some force to remove him.

Sorry to keep banging on about this mythical race but does anyone have the May 3 issue of Motorcycle News 1972 and if so can they check page 17 and tell me if there is a race report on it?
I just can't reconcile what happened at the German GP with this race description.
Also does anyone know the results at the Hockenhiem international. I know who won the various races but nothing more.
I wish MCN back issue were available on line. That would be a fantastic resourse and presumably not that hard to do. We could find answers to so many questions.
Heard through Mark Newcombe from Jeff Gawley which is fantastic so gradually closing the gaps.
With your collective permission I will include in my book's aknowledgements a
thank you to the learned gentleman of the Autosport Motorcycle Racing Nostalgia Forum.
Tim Hanna

On the subject of obscure Internationals does anyone have any knowledge of a road race at Skofja Loka in 1972. It was won by Paul Eikelberg who does not remember a lot more about it. Which is fair enough I suppose. Winners are grinners and the rest can please themselves.

I have consulted the Racing memo and what a great source of info it is. I note that Paul Eikelberg did not in fact win the Skofja Loka 500 race which was on 11/6/72. One thing that does confuse me is that the Hockehiem International (The May-Pokal- Rennen) is listed as happening on 14/05/72, as is the Austrian GP. Similarly the East German GP and and the Inernational race at Chimay are both listed as occuring on 9/07/72. This seems unlikely or am I being dense. The latter is quite possible.

If you look at the 1972 "GP by GP" description of the 1972 season, http://racingmemo.free.fr/MOTO-GP-1972.htm, it does mention ( but I realise it's all in french ) at the Austrian GP chapter that " the Maipokal at Hockenheim being run on the same day, some Grand Prix regulars such as Findlay, Simmonds and Turner, or Sidecar-men like Auerbacher or Wegener, preferd to go there..." It does also mention that on the 9th of July, same day as the east german GP ( where Sidecars were not taking part ) "Rudi Kurth and Dane Rowe won their first race aboard the Cat-Crescent at Chimay" . So, the dates are right it seems.

Hi Philippe
Yep, when you eliminate all possibilities you are left with the truth. I was confused that riders of the standing of Findlay, Simmonds and Turner would forego a GP but it seems they did. I wonder if the May-Pokal-Rennen offered decent start and prize money. Ditto the Chimay meeting.
Seems Kim was not intent on going to all the GPs in 1972 as he was at Chimay and I wonder if the ding dong battle I have talked about in previous posts between him and Dave Simmonds was at the May-Pokal-Rennen. I might have the date of the MCN reporting it wrong which would then explain a conundrum that has really been bugging me.
Thanks for your digging. The gaps are slowly cosing!
All the best
Tim Hanna

I have a few photos I'd like to post but need instructions.
The photos are on email now so how the heck do I do it. I will hold my hand up and admit that I am not that good at this stuff.

There is an explanation on image posting, third article down at the top of the MRN page. Best of luck, I have no show, I start glazng over about halfway through the instructions

I'm the resident technophobe, so with that health warning..... you need to get the emails into a file and onto your desktop or equivalent (I use a MAC ) ,once there simply go to Photobucket or Imagehost etc and download, then copy and come back here to post.

Hi Tim

I am computer illiterate, I opened a (free) photobucket account, uploaded my pics to there and then copy and paste the IMG link to the post you want the pics in.

(Thanks to Graham picblanc for his easy-to-follow tutorial!)

HTH.

Mick.

I wonder if the program could be dug out once more in order to find a couple of answers.
I know that Kim intended to race his 500 in the Allcomers race and took out the 680 because he found cracks in the bearing cages. What I'd like to know is if there was also a race for 500's. Or two races as per the Allcomers. (I think there were two legs and that Stan Woods hit the now straw baled protected wall on the second leg - presumably on the Saturday.)
I have now discovered that Kim practiced on both the 680 and the 500. Interesting times in the lap notes Rod Tingate kept.
Ago 1.42.2
Sheene 1.44
Mandracci 1.46
Eric (Offenstadt?) 1.50
Jack (Findlay?) 1.49
Grant (Mick?) 1.43
Kims best recorded time on the 500 was 1.45
However on the 680 he got it down to 1.42
Cork Ballington was there with his Seeley Kawasaki 750 and I imagine he was entered in the Allcomers as well. Be good to know what happened to him.
I believe John Dodds was there and wonder if Chas Mortimer was also present.
Kim went out into the lead in the Allcomers race for 6 laps or so before losing the lead to Paul Smart and crashing. I don't know where he was on the grid but he must have been up near the front. Grid places anyone?
All and any further help will be greatfully accepted.

Tim , , i'll dig out the prog again later on today hopefully , and list the riders for you

Thats brilliant.
Now that I am almost at the end of this long journey into the past I am as keen as ever to get it right.
I am not sure if there was a 500 race or not. If there was then Kim obviously decided to flag it and just concentrate on the Allcomers event.
I think when he walked around the paddock looking for support to take on the ACU guys about the exposed railway sleeper wall at Stowe he would not have seen a lot of faces he knew. I guess it is hardly surprising under the circumstances that he did not get a great deal of support.
Thanks for the help - I really have had to rely on the kindness of strangers to get this done.
All the best
Tim