Alonso was his own worst enemy at McLaren, which is a shame because I thought he was mentally tougher than he proved to be.

Alonso was his own worst enemy at McLaren, which is a shame because I thought he was mentally tougher than he proved to be.

Exactly. In some respects you can't blame him for a sense of entitlement being World Champion and all - but he should have just let his driving do the talking. In the end Hamilton's pace unnerved him. I'd love them back together in the McLaren though.

A huge determining factor has been how McLaren and later Renault have complied with the powers that be. At least autosport at that time thought so, and I think I agree. It was bad that McLaren management first declared there's nothing to see, but little by little damaginig info came to the light. Most courts would opt to hand out a heavier penalty to any party in such a situation. The fine itself was IMO too high. But to me in the end even if I assume that RD and co had no idea what was going on, after McLaren said that an internal checkup revealed nothing, just to be proven wrong, is a massive brain fart on account of the management.

They have learned though as the start of this year showed.

Mclaren were his enemy. I guess you expected Alonso to be a doormat. Any reaction - mental weakness?

You means hamiltons cheating. Alonso behaved until Hungary did he not? You cant say the same for Hamilton and his toys out the pram at monaco.

i get your point but to explain it to the average poster

it was their cheating with ferrari's info coupled with clear favoritism for hamilton, that caused FA to issue a threat at hungary 2007 that caused RD to call Max and say what FA said about Mac cheating to you was not true, even though FA had not called Max, and sometime later cooled down, even though it was Ham's squealing and refusual to obey the team plan that lead to FA sitting in the pitbox, and subsequently being penalized and bumped off pole and put five places down that cost him the three to four points he might have otherwise gotten, so instead of losing the WDC by one point that year, he would have won it by three or four points.....

fa leaves, and the inability of hamilton to contribute to development of the new 2009 car becomes apparent.............along with hamilton's continues willingness to throw others under the bus that even sees RD bite the dust....much like he did to to FA

fa leaves, and the inability of hamilton to contribute to development of the new 2009 car becomes apparent.............along with hamilton's continues willingness to throw others under the bus that even sees RD bite the dust....much like he did to to FA

Too bad for them he is the best driver now about to join their all-time rivals. They chose Hamilton and they should stick with it. Regrets, yes about the lost results in car no. 2, but nothing else.

Too bad for them he is the best driver now

You means hamiltons cheating. Alonso behaved until Hungary did he not? You cant say the same for Hamilton and his toys out the pram at monaco.

Mclaren have the WDC.

They have developed this years car at an unparalleled rate and are winning again.

Renault are exactly where they were nearly two years ago.

The evidence is there for all to see.

Mclaren chose wisely from a racing point of view. I suspect Martin is regretting the loss of Santander to his rivals more than anything else.

How exactly did Hamilton cheat?

And yes Hamilton was notably upset after being given no chance of getting pole at his favorite circuit in order to favor Alonso. And then there was Hungary . . . .

They have 1 wc when they should have had 4. And if Alonso joins ferrari and proceeds to beat mclaren like he did with renault, they will regret it even more.

They have a WC more than Fred and Renault as well as looking good to catch Fezza this season plus with rules stability for next year the car a good car this year will help next.

Lets see next year. If Alonso goes to ferrari Its probably mclarens last wc in a long time. .

They have 1 wc when they should have had 4. And if Alonso joins ferrari and proceeds to beat mclaren like he did with renault, they will regret it even more.

Alonso was his own worst enemy at McLaren, which is a shame because I thought he was mentally tougher than he proved to be.

Is that a serious question? It happened two years ago so surely you know what hamilton did and why the team were so angry with him? If Hamilton had behaved at hungary there would have been no major problems at mclaren in 2007.

Lets see next year. If Alonso goes to ferrari Its probably mclarens last wc in a long time. They better cherish it.

He didn't cheat. He disobeyed a team request.

Yes he broke the team rules and qualifying agreement so he cheated.

Why wait for Ferrari, couldn't Alonso the developer produce a better Renault that could challenge Hamilton in 2008 and 2009

He didn't cheat. He disobeyed a team request.

What I couldn't undestand then is why Anthony Hamilton, with the obvious connivence of McLaren bosses, went to the stewards looking for a punishment

What I couldn't undestand then is why Anthony Hamilton, with the obvious connivence of McLaren bosses, went to the stewards looking for a punishment to his son's teammate.

Yes he broke the team rules and qualifying agreement so he cheated.

How can he develop when testing is banned? Now its all down to money and renault cant compete with mclaren money.

Mclaren were his enemy. I guess you expected Alonso to be a doormat. Any reaction=mental weakness?

He's been on holiday, no time to build any new parts for his car. Or maybe Piquet did that . . .

In fact Lewis still has to rely on a consultant from Fonzi co.

They have 1 wc when they should have had 4.

Well dear they probably would have four if Fred hadn't blown the whistle on his use of Ferrari information then run off to Flavio's sweaty armpit. That was hardly Mclaren's fault. He simply didnt fit into a competitive environment. I look forward to seeing who Ferrari team with him. I doubt either of the current drivers will accept second billing. Anyway, it's old news and hardly needs dragging up. I'll leave you with the last word.

I remember speaking to a McLaren employee a few years ago who had the utmost praise for Martin Whitmarsh. I also got the impression that Dennis was viewed as an eccentric pain in the aras...

I don't remember Whitmarsh particularly helping the situation though - at the second or third race he was proclaiming Lewis as potentially the best of all time or something equally outlandish.

no more outlandish than the fools who think FA is gods gift to F1

The funny thing is that LH/McLaren fanboys think that they are better than the fanboys from the other side, when they are just the same s**t, only more arrogant and with a number advantage over they "rivals" that make they think they are right in whatever they say.

This thread is like a time machine.

Except they didn't. The stewards decided to look into it by themselves. It's just one of those things that people have claimed so many times it seems to have stuck.

No, he disobeyed a team request. Cheating would be more like sitting in the pits so that the driver behind you couldn't complete his last qualifying lap. And actually even THAT isn't cheating - it was just utterly stupid.

An average poster replies:

I shall take the highlighted passage, posted on the day that the reigning World Champion and winner of the last race sets pole for tomorrow's race, as a guide to judging the value of the rest of the 'explanation'.

God they could have done much better than bringing it back from useless to a win and pole position.