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Clatter
http://formula-one.speedtv.com/article/f1-...rt-with-trulli/

Glock stays, but looks like the writing is on the wall for Trulli.

Where will he go, and who will take his place?
LuckyStrike1
His wineyard and Kubica or Rosberg are two strong candidates I suspect.
kismet
Well, my boy's not doing anything important next year.
Atreiu
Well, nothing personal, but it's about time. Trulli has been there for six seasons and it's clear he won't lift them to winners and title contenders. They need to take their chances instead of keeping their driver lineup as tight as possible. I mean, how many young and quick guys have joined F1 without even coming close to a Toyota seat?
Francesc
I hope they get their beloved Nakajima, Williams has suffered more than enough with the guy
Clatter
QUOTE (Atreiu @ Aug 22 2009, 14:18) *
Well, nothing personal, but it's about time. Trulli has been there for six seasons and it's clear he won't lift them to winners and title contenders. They need to take their chances instead of keeping their driver lineup as tight as possible. I mean, how many young and quick guys have joined F1 without even coming close to a Toyota seat?


I tend to agree. I've never really understood why he was rated so highly. It's going to be an interesting period with so many seats potentially being available and so many drivers out of contract.
Jimisgod
Kubica to take his seat.
santori
But Trulli's been the team's better driver almost each year that he's been there. He's not quite an Alonso or Hamilton but he could well be in Jenson's position if Toyota were in Brawn's.
mkay
QUOTE (Atreiu @ Aug 22 2009, 09:18) *
Well, nothing personal, but it's about time. Trulli has been there for six seasons and it's clear he won't lift them to winners and title contenders. They need to take their chances instead of keeping their driver lineup as tight as possible. I mean, how many young and quick guys have joined F1 without even coming close to a Toyota seat?


Amen.
Jimisgod
QUOTE (Atreiu @ Aug 22 2009, 23:18) *
Well, nothing personal, but it's about time. Trulli has been there for six seasons and it's clear he won't lift them to winners and title contenders. They need to take their chances instead of keeping their driver lineup as tight as possible. I mean, how many young and quick guys have joined F1 without even coming close to a Toyota seat?


Toyota won't lift Toyota to winners and title contenders. rolleyes.gif
Seanspeed
QUOTE (Jimisgod @ Aug 22 2009, 09:44) *
Toyota won't lift Toyota to winners and title contenders. rolleyes.gif

Exactly. To blame that on Trulli is just pointing the finger wildly in the wrong direction.

Like somebody else said, Trulli has been the better driver for the team for pretty much every year he's been there compared to his teammate(yes, Ralf beat him on points, but points dont tell the whole story). So its a strange decision. Glock hasn't been anything but disappointing this year except for one or two races. I think people expected a lot more from him after a strong second half of 2008.

Replacing Trulli with anybody but a real hotshot is going to be a mistake.
Henrik B
Trulli is as fast as anyone, so replacing him with a young hotshot will in all likelihood result in few points and lower positions. He rarely screws up, and he can be blindingly quick when he likes the car. Unless replacing him with one of the big names, it will be a downgrade.
craftverk
QUOTE (Henrik Brodin @ Aug 22 2009, 15:33) *
Trulli is as fast as anyone, so replacing him with a young hotshot will in all likelihood result in few points and lower positions. He rarely screws up, and he can be blindingly quick when he likes the car. Unless replacing him with one of the big names, it will be a downgrade.

Not if the new driver actually has race pace
Atreiu
I didn't put any blame. I meant he's not the once a decade talent who can turn a team around and put them on track, like Alonso/Renault, Schumacher/Ferrari, etc. That's what I think Toyota need, but they haven't even come close to grasping any young and upcoming pilot in a very long time. Almost as if they think they can suddenly build a super-car and whoever's in it will start winning.

At least they got Glock, but it took Ralf's retirement for that to happen, and Glock had already been around way back in 2004...
aditya-now
QUOTE (santori @ Aug 22 2009, 15:31) *
But Trulli's been the team's better driver almost each year that he's been there. He's not quite an Alonso or Hamilton but he could well be in Jenson's position if Toyota were in Brawn's.


This is exactly what I don´t understand as well. How can they kick out the better driver?
Possibly some human relation issues behind the curtains that we have no inkling of?
Orin
QUOTE (santori @ Aug 22 2009, 14:31) *
But Trulli's been the team's better driver almost each year that he's been there. He's not quite an Alonso or Hamilton but he could well be in Jenson's position if Toyota were in Brawn's.


Indeed. Glock's doing well, but Trulli's holding his own. I'm sure he'll be in F1 next year, especially with new teams crying out for experienced drivers. I can't see anyone with ambition (i.e. Kubica) going to Toyota, their uneven performances are too frustrating.
Captain Tightpants
Wouldn' be too sad to see him gone. And with it, the Trulli Train.
aditya-now
QUOTE (Orin @ Aug 22 2009, 16:54) *
Indeed. Glock's doing well, but Trulli's holding his own. I'm sure he'll be in F1 next year, especially with new teams crying out for experienced drivers.


It´s gonna be an interesting year, with all the new teams and seats and driver combinations. A rehaul of F1, together with no refuelling!
Henrik B
QUOTE (craftverk @ Aug 22 2009, 16:36) *
Not if the new driver actually has race pace


Trullis race pace is absolutely good enough. "The Trulli Train" should be renamed "Drivers who fail to qualify to their cars potential stuck behind a slower car-train".

Alonso, Lewis, Massa, Kimi, perhaps Kubica and Button - only drivers in the field that would be an upgrade. Rest is on par or worse.
craftverk
QUOTE (Henrik Brodin @ Aug 22 2009, 16:00) *
Trullis race pace is absolutely good enough. "The Trulli Train" should be renamed "Drivers who fail to qualify to their cars potential stuck behind a slower car-train".

Alonso, Lewis, Massa, Kimi, perhaps Kubica and Button - only drivers in the field that would be an upgrade. Rest is on par or worse.

So I take it that you didn't watch the last race.
Buttoneer
QUOTE (Jimisgod @ Aug 22 2009, 14:22) *
Kubica to take his seat.

I'd prefer Kubica to get a fast car next year. I think he would too.
Henrik B
QUOTE (craftverk @ Aug 22 2009, 17:02) *
So I take it that you didn't watch the last race.


I've seen him in some 200+ races. I try to keep a bit longer perspective when judging driver ability.
LuckyStrike1
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 22 2009, 16:20) *
Exactly. To blame that on Trulli is just pointing the finger wildly in the wrong direction.

Like somebody else said, Trulli has been the better driver for the team for pretty much every year he's been there compared to his teammate(yes, Ralf beat him on points, but points dont tell the whole story). So its a strange decision. Glock hasn't been anything but disappointing this year except for one or two races. I think people expected a lot more from him after a strong second half of 2008.

Replacing Trulli with anybody but a real hotshot is going to be a mistake.



I don't think it's a mistake but it won't be the decision that transformed Toyota into title winners. But it's not a mistake to start thinking about a change in the driver line-up. Trulli has been there for six seasons now and not much has changed, he's been solid in line with the car but nothing more and nothing less. Putting someone else in after six season could be a vitamin injection for the team though - a bit of fresh air if you like and that can go a long way into putting the further up the grid.
craftverk
QUOTE (Henrik Brodin @ Aug 22 2009, 16:14) *
I've seen him in some 200+ races. I try to keep a bit longer perspective when judging driver ability.

The 200+ races when he was younger, correct? He's only going to get older at this point.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (LuckyStrike1 @ Aug 22 2009, 11:19) *
Putting someone else in after six season could be a vitamin injection for the team though - a bit of fresh air if you like and that can go a long way into putting the further up the grid.

They did that last year when they put Glock next to him.

I really dont think Toyota's troubles have anything to do with their drivers.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (craftverk @ Aug 22 2009, 11:21) *
The 200+ races when he was younger, correct? He's only going to get older at this point.

But if he's still driving at the top of his game, then age really isn't a worry yet.
mkay
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 22 2009, 11:37) *
But if he's still driving at the top of his game, then age really isn't a worry yet.


This is not about finding a better driver than Trulli. This is about changing the mindset of the team and bringing in some new blood.

I don't think they'll find a better driver, that is unless they can sign Kubica, Rosberg or Raikkonen. This is all about bringing some new blood.
Phucaigh
McLaren should sign him.
giacomo
QUOTE (Henrik Brodin @ Aug 22 2009, 17:00) *
Trullis race pace is absolutely good enough. "The Trulli Train" should be renamed "Drivers who fail to qualify to their cars potential stuck behind a slower car-train".

I like that formulation. up.gif
craftverk
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 22 2009, 16:37) *
But if he's still driving at the top of his game, then age really isn't a worry yet.

Well it is Toyota's decision
Seanspeed
QUOTE (mkay @ Aug 22 2009, 11:38) *
This is not about finding a better driver than Trulli. This is about changing the mindset of the team and bringing in some new blood.

As I said, they did that very thing when they got rid of Ralf and brought in Glock. Doesn't seem to have changed anything whatsoever.

And yes, I would imagine its very much a case of finding a better driver than Trulli. You dont replace your best driver with somebody knowingly inferior just to have 'new blood'. It could end up being a huge mistake. You always want to have drivers that can get the most out of the car.

And this whole 'new blood' thing is overrated. There is nothing a new driver will have that will suddenly make them build better cars.
mkay
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 22 2009, 11:44) *
As I said, they did that very thing when they got rid of Ralf and brought in Glock.


They did half of it. They now realize, in hindsight, that they should have got rid of Trulli as well.

Trulli is the constant in this case. Has been with the team, partnering Ralf, as well as Glock. Toyota, on the other hand, has not gotten any better with Trulli as the lead driver (or.. whatever).

To bring new blood is to put an end to the Trulli era of Toyota. That's what it is about.
shaggy
QUOTE (Henrik Brodin @ Aug 22 2009, 07:00) *
Trullis race pace is absolutely good enough. "The Trulli Train" should be renamed "Drivers who fail to qualify to their cars potential stuck behind a slower car-train".

That still means that he has no race pace. Which he doesn't.
Slowinfastout
The problem isn't with the drivers IMO... they started the season with a decent car and while the others have improved it seems that team is stationary... That team needs to change how they work, always has been the problem with them..

Trulli may not be the ideal no1 driver but he's an asset.. if the car is fast it's quite likely that it'll be sitting on the front row at the start of the race..
Seanspeed
QUOTE (mkay @ Aug 22 2009, 11:47) *
They did half of it. They now realize, in hindsight, that they should have got rid of Trulli as well.

Trulli is the constant in this case. Has been with the team, partnering Ralf, as well as Glock. Toyota, on the other hand, has not gotten any better with Trulli as the lead driver (or.. whatever).

To bring new blood is to put an end to the Trulli era of Toyota. That's what it is about.

Again, its just pointing fingers wildly in the wrong direction.

I'd really like somebody to explain exactly what 'new blood' does for a team and how it will miraculously gift them the ability to design and develop a better car.

I think this is one of those cases where people like to spout off really simplistic ideas that may sound great on the surface, but completely fail in rationality when you actually think about it.
Seanspeed
QUOTE (shaggy @ Aug 22 2009, 11:50) *
That still means that he has no race pace. Which he doesn't.

Obviously you didn't understand what he was saying....
sopa
A driver without race pace wouldn't have driven to third from the pitlane in Australia.
GiancarloF1
QUOTE (sopa @ Aug 22 2009, 15:59) *
A driver without race pace wouldn't have driven to third from the pitlane in Australia.


There was a big attrition in that one, think about Ferraris and Kubica-Vettel crash. But I agree it was a top5 caliber race for Jarno.
Clatter
QUOTE (sopa @ Aug 22 2009, 16:59) *
A driver without race pace wouldn't have driven to third from the pitlane in Australia.


But a season consists of more than one race.
sopa
QUOTE (Clatter @ Aug 22 2009, 19:06) *
But a season consists of more than one race.


Was there anything wrong with his pace in Malaysia, Bahrain, Turkey, etc?
Seanspeed
QUOTE (Clatter @ Aug 22 2009, 12:06) *
But a season consists of more than one race.

Tell that to all the people who like to pick out a race here or there where Trulli wasn't quick in the race...

Compared to his teammates, I've never seen anything that would suggest that Trulli has any problems with his race pace. It just seems that he does a better job in qualifying than some others with faster cars, so naturally holds them up in the race once in a while. Either that, or the car is just better over a lap and doesn't handle its tires well over a race. Its not like we haven't seen that happen countless times in F1.
mkay
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 22 2009, 11:56) *
Again, its just pointing fingers wildly in the wrong direction.

I'd really like somebody to explain exactly what 'new blood' does for a team and how it will miraculously gift them the ability to design and develop a better car.

I think this is one of those cases where people like to spout off really simplistic ideas that may sound great on the surface, but completely fail in rationality when you actually think about it.


Look... Toyota has been sh*t for quite a while. Trulli has been with the team during that span.

Trulli is guilty by association. Simple. Business is like this; hard decisions have to be taken, where you like them or not. It may or may not help them develop a better car, but they can't do worse than what they have been doing the past couple of years.
Clatter
QUOTE (sopa @ Aug 22 2009, 17:47) *
Was there anything wrong with his pace in Malaysia, Bahrain, Turkey, etc?


Based on the fact that he went backwards from his grid position, then yes.
sopa
QUOTE (Clatter @ Aug 22 2009, 19:56) *
Based on the fact that he went backwards from his grid position, then yes.


Lol, a very simplistic view.smile.gif

In Malaysia he was second on merit (Glock and Heidfeld beat him only thanks to far better strategy) and beat Barrichello in inferior car.
In Bahrain he could have won with better strategy and his criticized race pace destroyed Glock that day.
In Turkey he started 5th and finished 4th, so I don't know, what are you talking about.
vmk
Toyota said their objective was to win this year. Looks like they are done.
Lennat
They should get rid of Glock if anything.
santori
QUOTE (mkay @ Aug 22 2009, 18:55) *
Look... Toyota has been sh*t for quite a while. Trulli has been with the team during that span.

Trulli is guilty by association. Simple. Business is like this; hard decisions have to be taken, where you like them or not. It may or may not help them develop a better car, but they can't do worse than what they have been doing the past couple of years.


If only Honda had thought like that. They'd be leading both championships now.
WACKO
It may be that Toyota are out altogether next year. It's not just all of a sudden that Williams are breaking contracts and look at Trulli's shady reactions on Howett's ditto dubious quotes about not retaining him. That isn't the usual way of business unless they have fallen out very badly.

"Honda has pulled out, BMW has pulled out, and probably they will not be the only ones".
Take notice. cool.gif
Nathan
It appears obvious to me Toyota likely isn't in F-1 next year.
Phucaigh
Trulli says money is not an issue, maybe the inferior equipment he has to drive is?

Q. If you didn't have a seat would you continue in other categories or would you concentrate on your vineyards?

JT: I think it is too early to say. I really am a driver and still feel I am very quick and I want to keep racing. Definitely I want to drive but it depends on how and where. I have always been racing for the top. I never drove for a top team, but I have always put myself in the top five so I think that is my target. I want to see what I can achieve.

-----

Toyota might not be impressed with that comment.
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