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V8 Fireworks
Seems a good 'international' place to settle this tricky question with a definitive fan poll ;) .

Most most touring car series have now developed appropriate region specific rules and even with GFC, they generally all have big fields, lots of sponsors, quality drivers and very close lap times. So on this tricky basis, the difficult question: which is best!? smile.gif


Should there be single, high spectacle international rules with a more popular world championship that all touring car drivers aspire to? drunk.gif Should NASCAR be included in the options, or should we stick to road racing based series? I've put road racing options currently. confused.gif
PNSD
Got to think about this.

V8 supercars sound brutal, some good drivers, good tracks and good races. By far the best engine noise from any touring series.

Ive enjoyed the last two BTCC seasons though, litterally starting at the back does not seem an issue here!! Great great racing. Not a full field, but the ones who fill the spaces are talented.

DTM has steadily been in decline, often boring races these days.

WTCC, once again great racing throughout, but I think it needs more manufacturers. BMW and Seat dominate the proceedings.

Cant comment on the others as I have no previous experience or knowledge about them... I think for me has to be V8 Supercars. Just the rumble of that engine does it for me, and of course Bathurst. Again may not be as great as its former self, but is any sport these days?
Jimisgod
To be fair most series have gone downhill since the early 00s. V8 supercars are not as interesting as they were in 2005, 2003, 2001 or 1999 and everyone knows how far BTCC has dropped from its highs.
Scotracer
BTCC duh tongue.gif

But it was at it's best in the 80s and 90s...now a shell of it's former greatness frown.gif

Dispenser89
BTCC. It's getting better after years of the years of VX racing dominating. The rules changes of a couple of years ago helped and Seat coming in, and now out. Still think the races should be longer (20 laps at least on every circuit), but the racing is competitive and very close.
V8 supercars is good as well. Haven't really watched WTCC and DTM this year.
Brawn BGP 001
BTCC, love my yearly trips to the Croft weekend.
teejay
V8 supercars have become dull - the car look the same, post almost identical lap times lap after lap after lap unless on the sprint tyre and only two manufacturers.
Racer Joe
As far as I am concerned, any series that uses success ballast is out of reckoning as best.
Nobody
V8 by a mile. Although the sprint tyre is a bit pointless and artificial, with everyone in the media totally obsessed with it IMO
OfficeLinebacker
What, no NASCAR option?

tongue.gif

I voted v8 Supercars.

Seriously, watch the NASCAR race in Montreal this weekend, it may not be a touring car "series" but it's highly entertaining to watch on road courses.
George Costanza
BTCC 1990s were the finest... DTM 1992-1995 were just outstanding..


1990's = Greatest Decade for Touring Cars, bar none.
Alfisti
How anyonew can stand a 2 litre tourer with no blower is beyond me. They sound and look absolutely toothless ... castrated is what they are. Gimme a stonking 5 litre V8 or a little 2 litre with a hissing and spitting turbo ... christ it's motor racing, you need aural stimulation.
George Costanza
QUOTE (Alfisti @ Aug 25 2009, 22:53) *
How anyonew can stand a 2 litre tourer with no blower is beyond me. They sound and look absolutely toothless ... castrated is what they are. Gimme a stonking 5 litre V8 or a little 2 litre with a hissing and spitting turbo ... christ it's motor racing, you need aural stimulation.



Or: a vintage Porsche Flat 6 Twin Turbo.

Or: A Mercedes N/A V12 (CLK GTR of FIA GT 1997)

Or: McLaren BMW V12 (over 700 BHP)

and on.

FIA GT was great in the mid 1990s.
repcobrabham
QUOTE (George Costanza @ Aug 26 2009, 12:46) *
1990's = Greatest Decade for Touring Cars, bar none.


guess you didn't see aussie touring cars in their various incarnations through the '70s and '80s! wink.gif

supercars sound good but bore me silly (apart from bathurst), not familiar with any other divisions ... voted DTM purely on the basis of looks, sound and variety of vehicles.
Motormedia
QUOTE (repcobrabham @ Aug 26 2009, 04:08) *
guess you didn't see aussie touring cars in their various incarnations through the '70s and '80s! ;)

supercars sound good but bore me silly (apart from bathurst), not familiar with any other divisions ... voted DTM purely on the basis of looks, sound and variety of vehicles.


When DTM is seen as having a good variety of vehicles, we know something is wrong smile.gif

Variety is the key word for me. Touring car racing lacks variety. The best series in terms of variety is STCC which have managed to put more brands on the grid than the rest of the poll options together (slightly over exaggerated). Having said that, STCC too is developing into a two horse race, with BMW and Volvo increasing their dominance from one season to the next.
fer312t
BTCC easily the best...

V8 Fireworks
QUOTE (Motormedia @ Aug 26 2009, 05:41) *
Variety is the key word for me. Touring car racing lacks variety. The best series in terms of variety is STCC which have managed to put more brands on the grid than the rest of the poll options together (slightly over exaggerated).


Have you seen the TC2000 works teams? There are entries officially backed by Honda, Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota and Fiat, it would have to be up there in those stakes too. smile.gif
cheapracer
QUOTE (teejay @ Aug 26 2009, 08:53) *
and only two manufacturers. (V8 Supercars)


Its a Team Sport more so than just the 2 manufacturers and so what, Oz has had multi manufactures before and it didn't work as well.

The BTCC? - I think it's great that wives and girlfriends have a class to watch their little girly shopping trolleys.



QUOTE (George Costanza @ Aug 26 2009, 10:46) *
BTCC 1990s were the finest...


Good racing but fake racing - rear wheels drives hobbled by 100kgs to even them up, thats B/S.
Motormedia
QUOTE (V8 Fireworks @ Aug 26 2009, 06:45) *
Have you seen the TC2000 works teams? There are entries officially backed by Honda, Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota and Fiat, it would have to be up there in those stakes too. smile.gif



It sure looks good.

This is what STCC has to offer:

BMW, Volvo, Chevrolet, Honda, Alfa, Peugeot, Mercedes, VW, Seat, Audi. Of these, only Volvo and VW can be considered works teams. However, there are two BMW teams that are working to the same standards as works teams. The other entries are to be considered private but the Peugeot and Mercedes cars are original builds by the teams themselves. As I said, it is looking increasingly hard for the lesser teams to compete and with lacking results, it's also getting harder to come by the funding needed. In this recession I fear that a few of them might not be on the grid next year.
repcobrabham
QUOTE (Motormedia @ Aug 26 2009, 15:41) *
When DTM is seen as having a good variety of vehicles, we know something is wrong smile.gif


goes to show how long since i've looked at it! lol.gif i remember opel in there too and thought BMW competed too ... but it's just teutonic 'supercars'. how disappointing.
cheapracer
QUOTE (Motormedia @ Aug 26 2009, 14:11) *
It sure looks good.

This is what STCC has to offer:

BMW, Volvo, Chevrolet, Honda, Alfa, Peugeot, Mercedes, VW, Seat, Audi. Of these, only Volvo and VW can be considered works teams.


So what, F1 has multiple teams too, exciting hey?

Some of the best races I've ever seen have been from one make series.
V8 Fireworks
QUOTE (Motormedia @ Aug 26 2009, 06:11) *
It sure looks good.

This is what STCC has to offer:

BMW, Volvo, Chevrolet, Honda, Alfa, Peugeot, Mercedes, VW, Seat, Audi. Of these, only Volvo and VW can be considered works teams. However, there are two BMW teams that are working to the same standards as works teams. The other entries are to be considered private but the Peugeot and Mercedes cars are original builds by the teams themselves. As I said, it is looking increasingly hard for the lesser teams to compete and with lacking results, it's also getting harder to come by the funding needed. In this recession I fear that a few of them might not be on the grid next year.


Yep that's the problem with these different brands. Lots of $$$ for privateer to make a new chassis and especially to develop the race version of a proddy based engine, in stock car racing any privateer can build/buy a standardized chassis and fairly standard race engine and have a reasonable car cheaply. I think a compromise between stock specifications (spec transmissions, spec corner assemblies, spec suspension, spec wheelbase and track, semi-spec tube frames, parity adjusted aero pack?) and limited luxuries with the exotic bespoke engines, could be a good fit for new FIA regs to allow lots of different makes and cheap builds for privateers? smile.gif

If a privateer could buy a Dallara tube chassis complete with the standard transmission, fuel pumps etc etc, then develop and fit their own FIAT engine (parity adjusted to fixed horsepower) to their requirements, and simply install Punto-shaped bodywork with the parity-adjusted aero, it could be a good cheap touring car. smile.gif
rookie
V8 Supercars by a mile.

Out of all those listed above, there the ones that look like there being driven, they slide, drift, lock wheels......too much power for not enough tyre is the magic formula for entertaining racing.

I used to enjoy 90's BTCC, but i've watched a few races lately (and WTCC) to give them another chance, but it's boring. The cars are on rails, they sound awful...all my opinion of course, but put anyone in front of the tv race fan or not and i think they will pick the class with too much power for the tyres.
JdB
As for looks, i love the DTM cars, but looking at the racing, i can't say i'm really that interested in any of the races ... If it's on television, i'll have a look, but there isn't a series that i'm really keen to follow intensively ...
ivanalesi
Brazil Stock Cars - huge grids, V8 motors, fast cars. Also the Argentine TC2000 are quite good and racing wise I like most V8 Supercars. DTM is great tech and cars, but they have too much aero.
Beej
I can only base my choice on series I have seen in the flesh as it would be unfair to compare TV and live so that only allows WTCC,DTM and BTCC. BTCC wins hands down.
I wish they would run DTM's on a circuit more fitting to the type of cars as to me Brands Indy just not do them justice and then my view might change.
wewantourdarbyback
QUOTE (OfficeLinebacker @ Aug 26 2009, 03:41) *
What, no NASCAR option?

tongue.gif

I voted v8 Supercars.

Seriously, watch the NASCAR race in Montreal this weekend, it may not be a touring car "series" but it's highly entertaining to watch on road courses.


Unfortunately much as you know I love NASCAR, a touring car series it aint in the slightest.



I voted for the one, the only BTCC clap.gif
cheapracer
QUOTE (rookie @ Aug 26 2009, 14:48) *
......too much power for not enough tyre is the magic formula for entertaining racing.
but put anyone in front of the tv race fan or not and i think they will pick the class with too much power for the tyres.


hey for a Rookie your smart! up.gif
Scotracer
QUOTE (Alfisti @ Aug 26 2009, 03:53) *
How anyonew can stand a 2 litre tourer with no blower is beyond me. They sound and look absolutely toothless ... castrated is what they are. Gimme a stonking 5 litre V8 or a little 2 litre with a hissing and spitting turbo ... christ it's motor racing, you need aural stimulation.


Have you ever actually attended a modern Touring Car event? ambivalent.gif The Super Tourers and now S2000 cars make a great noise - particularly the Fords and Vauxhalls in the BTCC.
LuckyStrike1
V8 Supercars. The cars are brutal and fast, the tracks are great, many big names among the drivers, the package is entertaining and the racing is fantastic.

DTM would give them competition if there were any kind of racing in that series but it isn't, just high-profile "follow the leader" and results dictated by team-orders and pre-determined race strategies for the season (we'll back him and the others have to follow)

WTCC sometimes gives good racing but the cars are too slow and there is too much "car boxing" and rough driving for it to be entertaining. Enter the same kind of problems with team orders as in DTM and they won't have a chance.

Some of the national touring car series are good but they pale in comparison to V8 Supercars.
Phil82
QUOTE (Brawn BGP 001 @ Aug 26 2009, 01:46) *
BTCC, love my yearly trips to the Croft weekend.


Went to croft for the first time this year was a good day.

Went to oulton park as well, I used to go and watch the BTCC years ago back in the late 90s then lost intrest when all the manufacturers started pulling out. Just started getting back into past 18 months as my mates have got friendly with the sunshine.co.uk team.
I have to say I am hooked again and the racing is quality.I have had two quality days out when I have been this year.

However I am worried about the new regulations did I read they are banning rear wheel drive?

BTCC & Paul O'Neil clap.gif



marchi-91
QUOTE (rookie @ Aug 26 2009, 16:48) *
Out of all those listed above, there the ones that look like there being driven, they slide, drift, lock wheels......too much power for not enough tyre is the magic formula for entertaining racing.



Yeah.... Not really. More grip then power is the magic formula to racing. Having cars go side by side around corners, be able to dive for the inside and not run off the road, hence the reason why ALL of the drivers want better tyres with more grip....

Watching v8's on both tv and live is incredibly boring. Unless the car behind is a fair bit faster then the one in front, then its follow the leader.

If you've ever been to an event in Australia, the Mini series and the Aus touring cars 'little holdens and fords' offer much better racing because of the more grip then power method.
wewantourdarbyback
I like V8s but the racing is nowhere near as exciting as the BTCC provides.
Tenmantaylor
Even though the field isnt as comprehenisve as it used to be I voted BTCC as a combination of its recent past and the consistently high level of racing and action.
Seanspeed
For those looking for variety, the Speed World Challenge is worth a look. The quality of drivers isn't very high, but you'll see Mazda's, Acura's and BMW's all capable of winning. They run on some nice tracks and the racing is usually pretty good, too. Only once this season(out of 8 races so far) has somebody won from pole position.
ezequiel
QUOTE (V8 Fireworks @ Aug 26 2009, 06:45) *
Have you seen the TC2000 works teams? There are entries officially backed by Honda, Ford, Chevrolet, Toyota and Fiat, it would have to be up there in those stakes too. smile.gif


And Renault... and Citröen, VW/Seat are rumored for next year. I would mention Turismo Carretera too just because they are the oldest motor racing series in the world and the cars can't sound better, although I wish they return to the prototypes era like in the 70s. Nowadays, the TC cars are lie prototypes in desguise and have little less to do with the classic Chevys, Fords, Dodges and Torinos from the early 70s...
Rob G
QUOTE (Seanspeed @ Aug 26 2009, 10:03) *
For those looking for variety, the Speed World Challenge is worth a look. The quality of drivers isn't very high, but you'll see Mazda's, Acura's and BMW's all capable of winning. They run on some nice tracks and the racing is usually pretty good, too. Only once this season(out of 8 races so far) has somebody won from pole position.

I agree. It's a real shame though that the car count has been shrinking at such a shocking rate.

Speed used to broadcast BTCC, the V8 Supercars and DTM every off-season, and I always found myself most eager to watch the BTCC races. I think I like the BTCC best for the racing and the V8s for the cars. DTM for some reason never really struck my fancy as much. I think it may be just the fact that they don't look much like the cars they are supposed to represent any more. Those multiple fins look horrible to me, especailly at the trailing edge of the cars.
V8 Fireworks
I wonder why someone doesn't start an American "V8 Supercar" road racing series? It should be relatively easy and if it's cheaper than the Truck series it should add up for sponsors. The key to the Aussie racing is to go right ahead and plonk a NASCAR-based motor in, regardless of the road going V8 models having multiple overhead blah blah blah. The rest of the cars are all race bits, and both models have the same suspension (unlike the road versions).

So go ahead get some Mustang/Camaro/Challenger bodies, plonk a Nationwide (or fuel injected version thereof) motor in, add a 6-speed box, sitck identical wishbone suspension in all three cars and go racing. The "All-American Coupe Road Racing Cup" - Could be great! smile.gif
PNSD
Thats sounds a pretty fantastic combo!!

The trans-am series not of not too long ago was also brilliant!

The German v8-Star was also good, cheap aswell!
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