I cannot see a proud company like Toyota running a non winning F1 team and at the same time closing down a plant for a year in Japan and maybe some in the UK....with all the joblosses that this will bring

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8221692.stm

I'm really worried that Toyota and Renault are both pulling out at the end of the year, with immediate effect. Clues are Williams wanting out of Toyota engine deal, Red Bull wanting out of Renault deal, Truilli contract not renewed, Alonso probably moving from Renault, no strong rumors of Toyota or Renault signings, both main companies in relative trouble, team managers always the last to know....

Death of Toyota F1

When the Bernie opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature say, "Come!" I looked and there before me was a pale horse! Its rider was named Jarno, and Timo was following close behind him. Toyota were given power over a fourth of the earth to kill by Prius, Auris and Corolla, and by the wild beasts of the environmental lobby.
— FOC 6:7-8 NIV

;)

It might not all be doom and gloom for Toyota with regards to their future in F1.

They've got a new boss (Akio Toyoda) who is supposedly a motorsport fan and has raced himself on the odd occasion. Apparently he is looking to get Toyota producing an affordable sports car range, so maintaining a motorsport image for them is important and remaining in F1 is likely?

Toyota's F1 budget is not approved and a decision will not be made until November apparently. Howett expecting strong resistance.

Not to mention their main home-grown rival is gone because they made the acceptable (in terms of PR at home) decision to stop paying for a multimillionaires plaything in favour of their own workers and it would be pretty surprising to me if they didn't announce their withdrawal at the end of 2009.

F1 in 2010 will be very different.

Well, to be honest, I wont miss Toyota if they leave. They are cheating and faceless squad and this would open a possibility for more competent teams.

Renault on the other hand would be missed. Just like BMW and Honda. They bring (brought) something to the table.

Julli

as i stated in some other thread, i cant see toyota and renault pulling out after they just signed a new concorde agreement to stay in F1 until 2013. otherwise that ca wouldnt be worth anything.

they signed the CA to make the team more saleable

Ferrari cheats , McLaren Cheat, Renault Cheat they all cheats.

Max was right all along. Funny how Howett was the most vicious opponent of budget caps.

Not a huge problem for me.

I'm happy to told I'm wrong and that some farmyard outfit can buy the team simply to enter their own, leaving the existing team to turn the lights out. But as far as I'm aware, if they do sell then the same team will stay on the grid. Costs being down and stable regulations should mean we really only end up with the same mid to rear end of the grid team less the big name parent company. If they can't find someone to stump up the cash for their operation then they're obliged to keep racing themselves.

Toyota (car company) boss said pretty openly that Toyota F1 team is either going to win this year or the team is getting scrapped before the beginning of the season, so potential withdraw from F1 is hardly going to be surprising.

I won't miss them, or BMW, if they get bought and 'privatised' then so much the better.

Brawn for example is so much more interesting and credible now than Honda ever were. Let the manufacturers just supply engines, or let an individual like Flav or Ross run it.

Though how practical it is to have an F1 team in Cologne I'm not sure. Do top people want to go there? I seem to remember Gascoyne saying somthing about that.

What about this

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...826114019.shtml


and this as well

http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news...824101913.shtml

Not all. Renault is not Benetton. Ferrari works on the gray area which is not forbidden, questionable but not against the rules. Stealing blueprints (F1) is as well as exceeding the engine volume while running it is (@ WRC). Honda was also cought cheating with the extra tank, I wonder why you left it of your list? But Honda has long traditions in F1.

So I agree that McLaren, Toyota and Honda cheats. About the rests, the jury is still out there.

About the rest, they haven't been caught.

I don't understand why you and others keep coming out with this Max was right mantra. He didn't predict anything that had not already been said years ago, and he is the architect of the problem anyway.

Some have been caught, but let off, a lot depends on what team/driver the FIA are rooting for..

I don't see what the fuss is all about, haven't they all now signed the new Concorde agreement that ties them in until 201?

Toyota and Renault have committed themselves to F1, BMW couldn't hence they are history.

Simples

This would have 785 posts if Ferrari were pulling out!

Oh well, it's Toyota and no one is too fussed about this mere rumour. Not unexpected if reports are accurate, hopefully they keep the factory and join some cheaper forms of motorsport to keep promoting the Toyota brand.

Perhaps Epsilon would purchase the entry?

As I understand it Toyota gave board approval to the team before signing the Concorde, IMO they 'll get a budget cut and a swift kick up the backside to deliver something soon else they 'll be out.

Toyota are by far the least annoying F1 team currently in existence so it would be a tragic loss of epic proportions if they indeed decided to piss off.

It might have if it were Toyota pulling out too, but it isn't. It's speculation. When they finally do announce that theay are pulling out, the Toyota thread will have 785 'I told you so's.

It's now a little bit more then speculation...

In the beginning they said all the time: no, we are staying for a very long time!
Now it's: we don't know for sure

The Renault pull out-rumour is far more longer one..

The Toyota one started when Honda pulled out,
and now it seems they're not going to win or a regular base... it could become reality.. but I do not hope it!

I don't understand the people that say: I will not miss them? why don't you want 26 cars on the grid next year.. actually now there are 24 .. but still.. it's close to go down to 22 again if the speculation becomes more then just that.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78012

Glock is joining the worry party.

It's nothing more than speculation.

The only new recent information is that the Toyota board have not committed the budget for next year - which could mean anything from there is no budget, to massive cuts, to status-quo, to we're going to spend what it takes to win. Given the state of the global economy it's not surprising that they want to wait a few months before committing a large amount of money to next year.

if anyone still thinks Toyota will be around as a team next year, they better put the crack pipe down right now.

I think you need to put the crack pipe down.

Bmw pulled out so suddenly that kubica read about it on a website.

The reason was that the deadline for the ca was so soon.

If toyota wa to pull out, the financial implications of signing the ca are huge.

Toyota signed the ca, so unless they know they have a buyer, they would have pissed away a years budget for the sake of a month or so announcement.

Unless toyota go bankrupt before 2010, (unlikely since they are the worlds biggest manufacturer), pulling out now as opposed to pre ca signing would cost massive amounts.

Budgets are a different question. Toyota will likely massively reduce budgets for 2010.

Doesn't mean anything. Jordan had signed CA too and it's been sold three times since (altough there was no CA when ForceIndia was born)

What are the financial implications?

Exactly. The kwy word being SOLD. When a ca signator sells it's team, it is also selling the ca signature.

Midland bought the ca with Jordan.

If Toyota sell their team, they would also pass on the ca signature. That is why I said "unless toyota have a buyer guaranteed".

Toyota may withdraw, but only if they know that someone will buy their team.

Unlikely.

Bernie himself stated that he doesn' give a crap about budget caps if the teams sign the concord, because it would be too costly for them to drop out.

If toyota dropped out, (as opposed to sold out), they would be liable for millions.

Why sign a document that will cost millions if you are going to exit, when you can just do as bmw did and say we are out?

If however, toyota went bankrupt, (like Arrows), it is a different story, but given their standing, that is about as lkely as Bernie giving all of his money to the "charity to help tall people"

If they leave good riddance. Now if they leave NASCAR it would be much better.

Getting tired of Toyota being in Victory Lane?

If Toyota Racing is its own company, the owners can let it default and then Bernie has to stand in line with the rest of the credtitors. It wont bother Toyota, the auto manufacturer or its motorsport division, Toyota Motorsport.

And you think Bernie hasn't thought of this?

The ca was signed by toyota. Bernie is not as stupid as you think.

If toyota racing goes bankrupt, there will be ramifications. Toyota own toyota racing, so would be liable for it'as debts.

The only way to offload toyota f1 would be to sell it.

Maybe, but unlikely.

I think Bernie has thought of this and it might just be that it is something he can't do anything about. This is the way it has been before and I assume that's the way it works today as well. This was one of Mosleys issues, that the teams couldn't guarantee their participation. Any fines or whatever was meaningless since there was no way to make the owners to pay up.

Why did Toyota not do the same thing as BMW? Who knows. Why did Honda spend 500million on a Merc ad campaign?

It could be Toyota did not want to jeopardize their entry like BMW has.

Can you please explain who's gonna promote the series ?!
Hint manufacturers spent a lot of money in promoting F1, besides their your driver programs.

yeah, they're gone!

Toyota won't be told if they have a 2010 budget until November at the earliest according to BBC just now.

That's very late, and quite sad for the drivers should there be a need for them to find drives elsewhere. It puts them, and those the team might be negotiating with, very much at a disadvantage.

I predict that after the final race they'll announce a pull out with immediate effect.

Sadly, it seems like this might be the case. There would be no reason to wait till November with announcing they're staying in F1, so I reckon they already know they are not.

It's always sad to lose a team but I'd be happy to see John Howett and another FOTA team gone.

Next up Renault. I am loving how Max if being proved right. FOTA teams were idiots.

TO add more fuel to this rumore, I concern the move made by Williams as one other sign to take the situation on Toyota serioysly.

This said I assume that Toyota will be there in 2010.

Of course but many didn't see it.

FOTA is Ferrari, then a bit of nothing and then McLaren and then a whole lot of nothing and the rest of the bunch.

FOTA next year could be down to 5 teams only, FIA will do a number on them and they deserve it.